Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumRenouncing my Israeli citizenship
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/renouncing-israeli-citizenship.htmlFor several decades I believed, as most Jews do, that the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel was an answer to the Nazi Holocaust and other persecutions of Jews through the centuries, such as the Russian pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. However, none of these atrocities were carried out by Palestinians and none of them justify the atrocities and other injustices perpetrated upon the Palestinian people by the Zionist Movement and the State of Israel for over a century. I am referring to the racist colonization of Palestine, the Nakba/Catastrophe of 1948 whereby the establishment of Israel as a state was accompanied by the destruction of hundreds of Palestinian Arab villages, massacres of thousands of men, women and children and the forced exile of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland. Subsequently Israel has embarked upon an aggressive, Nazi-like expansion and a brutal, inhuman, military occupation of nearly half a century.
As a serious student of the Nazi Holocaust, I can only be horrified at the disgrace that the State of Israel and its Jewish supporters continue to bring upon the memory of Jewish Holocaust victims. Its a moral abomination to emulate Nazi tactics in the name of the Jewish people and their alleged security: cowardly massive bombings and slaughter of civilian populations who have no air force to protect them, collective punishment and torture, mass incarcerations, destruction of thousands of homes, and the vicious blockade and ghettoization of Gaza.
Israel is not becoming an apartheid stateit already is one with separate and unequal laws and policing for its Jewish citizens on one hand and for its non-Jewish, mostly Arab citizens and victims of the occupation on the other hand
ProgressiveJarhead
(172 posts)I felt like renouncing my US. citizenship during the Bush years.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Yes yes yes!
Mosby
(16,258 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Mosby
(16,258 posts)What does Hamas actions say about Islam?
What does Isis say about Islam?
What does Assad say about Islam?
What does boco haram say about Islam?
What does al sisi say about Islam?
What does Hezbollah say about Islam?
Why is it that ONLY Jews have lost their way?
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Israel holds itself out as being the homeland and guarantor of all Jews worldwide, not only those within its territory, and generally attempts to persuade the world that it's every action is intended as a fulfilment of that mandate. After all, you do want the world to recognise it as "the Jewish state", don't you?
Or in other words, you cannot conflate Israel and Jews when it suits you, and distinguish them when it does not.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Who make it quite clear they are Muslim states and in some cases base their laws on sharia. Right wing commentators like Pam geller and Robert Spencer love to blame misdeeds/ behaviors in these states as flaws of Islam right? How are daneels posts about Israel and Judaism any different?
The fact is some of these recent posts from mondoweiss are exactly the same as what you can find written about Islam on far right wing sites, only the religion is different and I find all of it disgusting.
Maybe I should not say this but I couldn't care less what assimilated Jews and non Jews have to say about Judaism. The authors of these shit pieces are writing this crap not to persuade Jews but to appeal to bigots and try and normalize bigotry against Jews. If DU is any indication, it's working.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)The killing is the problem. It is a problem when people, including Jews, kill other people. That applies to Muslims too.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)It mentions Jews and Jewish people nine times in the context of "racist colonialism", "nazi like expansion", "moral abomination", "cowardly bombing" and apartheid.
The entire piece is an attack on Judaism and Zionism.
And as of now it has been by recommended by 84 DUers.
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)I AM Jewish - if that makes a difference. I am a Jew in the tradition of social Justice. Why have Jews traditionally been involved out of proportion to their numbers in: civil rights, civil liberties, unionism, and every social justice issue? Because there is a tradition in Judaism which encourages social justice activism.
That is why - while every person who is human should be outraged and active in opposition to Israeli war crimes- Jews in particular, those who are not brainwashed into pathological support for Israel, are outraged and active.
Israel is the one who tries to conflate a religion and a foreign policy - why else does it put the Star of David on its flag.
In fact Israel's policies and actions are the complete opposite of Jewish philosophy.
Don't forget- Jews comprise 3-4 % of the US population.
But Jews were largely present in civil rights movement, the union movement, movement against child labor, anti-war. You name a progressive movement, Jews were there.
That is why we Jews find Israeli actions double disgusting.
klook
(12,151 posts)although I am an atheist myself. Jews have done so much good in this world for social justice and the benefit of humanity.
That's why it's especially galling to see this rich philosophical tradition used as a mask to hide appalling aggression and brutality.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Judaism is used as a crutch when it suits a particular narrative of a few here (everybody is an anti-Semite), but when people of substance say that Israel is wrong and they happen to be Jewish then it is somehow wrong?
Nonsense. Grow up.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Is Pam geller et al right about blaming Islam for what al sisi and assad etc. do?
How is it different when you post garbage about how Judaism is "losing its way"?
The only difference is the religion.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)So sorry for you and your inability to come to terms with the fact that Israel is an apartheid state.
On edit: If you had noticed the high rec count (on that and a few other posts) I would suggest that the article, and not the poster, is resonating with DUers. They understand, while you call foul.
Stay in the darkness of ignorance if you like. Frankly you're not my problem.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Mosby
(16,258 posts)Just like they have been doing for thousands of years.
All the bullshit propaganda and revisionist history can't change that.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)of what they claim their right to be. Israel has no right to colonize the Palestinian people's homeland; no matter how much some assh*le settler wants to take it from them.
Any person(s) making the claim that they own something or have the right to own something from two thousand years ago, while another people occupies that something in the present, is using in your words "bullshit propaganda and revisionist history."
Israel exists. Live in it or don't, but don't make the bankrupt excuse that Israel has more of a right than the Palestinians to their own territory.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)They have been living continuously for thousands of years in palestine, israel, Judea and Samaria.
Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is a propagandist.
Jews used to live all throughout the middle east but the Arabs have engaged in ethnic cleansing and revisionist history in a pathetic attempt to erase middle eastern jewish history.
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)Israel exists, so there's no going back now. However, the Palestinians deserve to have a state as well. If there's going to be a two-state solution as I believe there should be, then a certain amount of land should be set aside for the Palestinians.
There's probably going to have to be a solution from the UN about this. I don't think the Israelis and Palestinians would ever come to a compromise on their own. Also, there will have to be an internationally enforced peace between the two states to make sure that neither provokes the other.
Whatever the UN determines the division to be, it should be seen as permanent, with no further discussion or negotiation about it. All nations in the area should have permanent borders set up. This shit has got to stop. The world is tired of it, and the people in the region ought to be sick of it as well.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Per unscr 242, 338 and 1515.
And if the un is going to occupy a country, maybe they should start with syria, where 175,000 people have been killed. Seems sort of stupid to me that someone would suggest israel when the middle east is filled with murderous dictatorships like in Syria, Egypt and Iran.
LuvNewcastle
(16,834 posts)Most people don't care what happens in Syria. However, there are a lot of Jews, Christians, and Muslims who are interested in what happens in Israel and Palestine.
I was raised as a Christian, but I'm not a follower of any of those religions anymore; however, because of all the international attention, I've become interested in events over there. Israel was formed fairly recently in world history, and the Israelis have steadily taken over more and more Palestinian territory. They're still allowing "settlers" to go into Palestinian territory today. I believe that is wrong.
I really don't care who was supposed to negotiate with whom. It is obvious that throughout all of these negotiations, each side has found reasons not to accept the other's offer. This is going to have to be dealt with by an international decision, either in a court or a UN vote. Also, peace will have to be enforced by an international authority since neither side can be trusted not to provoke the other. We've got to put the children on opposite sides of the room and sit in the middle. That's the only way to stop it.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)When you say Israel has no right to colonize the Palestinians homeland? Are you talking about settlers in the WB now? Or is this a comment about the immigrants who came to Palestine between the world wars?
Regarding places in east Jerusalem, do you consider that area exclusively palestinian land that's being colonized?
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)and Israeli propaganda can't change that either.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)Do you agree with the article about the israelis "nazi like expansion"
Do you?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Who survived a genocidal holocaust inflict the same thing on another group.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Mosby
(16,258 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Once a request becomes an invasion at gunpoint the whole "we have a right" meme is flushed down the toilet.
avebury
(10,951 posts)marched across the country or otherwise forced to move onto reservations so that the White people could takeover their land (and natural resources of course).
Mosby
(16,258 posts)The Jews are an ancient tribe of the Levant and are trying to deal with very recent Muslim newcomers who, unfortunately, think that non Muslims are inferior and should be discriminated against.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Or take their land.
Mosby
(16,258 posts)jimlup
(7,968 posts)It is a truth I hope for my future grandchildren who will be Jewish.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)They could probably use some encouragement; seeing all the revisionistas and their disinformation policy in action.