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R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
Mon Jul 21, 2014, 10:47 PM Jul 2014

Renouncing my Israeli citizenship

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/renouncing-israeli-citizenship.html

On October 19, 2010 my plane landed in Israel and instantaneously I was awarded Israeli citizenship with identification card # 012706735, solely because I am Jewish. Through reflection and study I have come to realize that this act was a travesty of justice. There are several million Palestinians and their descendants who cannot enter and/or live and move freely in their native historical homeland.

For several decades I believed, as most Jews do, that the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel was an answer to the Nazi Holocaust and other persecutions of Jews through the centuries, such as the Russian pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. However, none of these atrocities were carried out by Palestinians and none of them justify the atrocities and other injustices perpetrated upon the Palestinian people by the Zionist Movement and the State of Israel for over a century. I am referring to the racist colonization of Palestine, the Nakba/Catastrophe of 1948 whereby the establishment of Israel as a state was accompanied by the destruction of hundreds of Palestinian Arab villages, massacres of thousands of men, women and children and the forced exile of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland. Subsequently Israel has embarked upon an aggressive, Nazi-like expansion and a brutal, inhuman, military occupation of nearly half a century.

As a serious student of the Nazi Holocaust, I can only be horrified at the disgrace that the State of Israel and its Jewish supporters continue to bring upon the memory of Jewish Holocaust victims. It’s a moral abomination to emulate Nazi tactics in the name of the Jewish people and their alleged security: cowardly massive bombings and slaughter of civilian populations who have no air force to protect them, collective punishment and torture, mass incarcerations, destruction of thousands of homes, and the vicious blockade and ghettoization of Gaza.

Israel is not becoming an apartheid state—it already is one with separate and unequal laws and policing for its Jewish citizens on one hand and for its non-Jewish, mostly Arab citizens and victims of the occupation on the other hand
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Renouncing my Israeli citizenship (Original Post) R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 OP
If That Makes You Feel Better ProgressiveJarhead Jul 2014 #1
K&R...cannot kick this one enough passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #2
are you jewish? Mosby Jul 2014 #4
Does it matter? R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #7
yes, because your posts make this about judaism. Mosby Jul 2014 #10
Israel makes it about Judaism shaayecanaan Jul 2014 #17
++ ellenrr Jul 2014 #20
there are 22 explicitly muslim states Mosby Jul 2014 #25
it is the killing, not the judaism noiretextatique Jul 2014 #32
did you read the article? Mosby Jul 2014 #35
It is NOT about Judaism, it is about a colonial force which uses Judaism as an excuse. ellenrr Jul 2014 #19
I love the progressive tradition of Judaism, klook Jul 2014 #31
Post 17 sums it up pretty well. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #24
see post 25 Mosby Jul 2014 #27
It's only considered garbage by those who want to paint a rosy picture of Israel. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #30
what difference would that make? passiveporcupine Jul 2014 #23
jews have a right to live in their ancestral homeland Mosby Jul 2014 #3
Nobody has the right to colonize another people regardless R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #5
the jews never left their lands Mosby Jul 2014 #9
That's what I think. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #13
the palestinians are required to negotiate a settlement with israel Mosby Jul 2014 #15
Israel is the place with all the international attention. LuvNewcastle Jul 2014 #18
So. What are you referring to? Shaktimaan Jul 2014 #14
So do Palestinians Larkspur Jul 2014 #6
100 years ago the palestinian arabs were syrians Mosby Jul 2014 #12
yes...it is sickening that a people noiretextatique Jul 2014 #34
same with palestinians. nt killbotfactory Jul 2014 #8
palestinian nationalism has been around for about 100 years Mosby Jul 2014 #11
Yeah. It's wierd how a massive calamity befalling a certain population can change things. nt killbotfactory Jul 2014 #16
Jews may ask for that, and they can live within Israel. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #26
Just like the American Indians had a right to live in their homeland and not avebury Jul 2014 #28
thats exactly right Mosby Jul 2014 #29
there is no 'right' to kill people noiretextatique Jul 2014 #33
nations have the right to defend their citizens. Mosby Jul 2014 #36
Thank you for having the courage to speak the truth jimlup Jul 2014 #21
Go to the site and thank the author. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2014 #22

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
10. yes, because your posts make this about judaism.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:45 AM
Jul 2014

What does Hamas actions say about Islam?

What does Isis say about Islam?

What does Assad say about Islam?

What does boco haram say about Islam?

What does al sisi say about Islam?

What does Hezbollah say about Islam?

Why is it that ONLY Jews have lost their way?

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
17. Israel makes it about Judaism
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 02:18 AM
Jul 2014

Israel holds itself out as being the homeland and guarantor of all Jews worldwide, not only those within its territory, and generally attempts to persuade the world that it's every action is intended as a fulfilment of that mandate. After all, you do want the world to recognise it as "the Jewish state", don't you?

Or in other words, you cannot conflate Israel and Jews when it suits you, and distinguish them when it does not.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
25. there are 22 explicitly muslim states
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:32 PM
Jul 2014

Who make it quite clear they are Muslim states and in some cases base their laws on sharia. Right wing commentators like Pam geller and Robert Spencer love to blame misdeeds/ behaviors in these states as flaws of Islam right? How are daneels posts about Israel and Judaism any different?

The fact is some of these recent posts from mondoweiss are exactly the same as what you can find written about Islam on far right wing sites, only the religion is different and I find all of it disgusting.

Maybe I should not say this but I couldn't care less what assimilated Jews and non Jews have to say about Judaism. The authors of these shit pieces are writing this crap not to persuade Jews but to appeal to bigots and try and normalize bigotry against Jews. If DU is any indication, it's working.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
32. it is the killing, not the judaism
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 10:41 PM
Jul 2014

The killing is the problem. It is a problem when people, including Jews, kill other people. That applies to Muslims too.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
35. did you read the article?
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 11:30 PM
Jul 2014

It mentions Jews and Jewish people nine times in the context of "racist colonialism", "nazi like expansion", "moral abomination", "cowardly bombing" and apartheid.

The entire piece is an attack on Judaism and Zionism.

And as of now it has been by recommended by 84 DUers.

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
19. It is NOT about Judaism, it is about a colonial force which uses Judaism as an excuse.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:55 AM
Jul 2014

I AM Jewish - if that makes a difference. I am a Jew in the tradition of social Justice. Why have Jews traditionally been involved out of proportion to their numbers in: civil rights, civil liberties, unionism, and every social justice issue? Because there is a tradition in Judaism which encourages social justice activism.

That is why - while every person who is human should be outraged and active in opposition to Israeli war crimes- Jews in particular, those who are not brainwashed into pathological support for Israel, are outraged and active.

Israel is the one who tries to conflate a religion and a foreign policy - why else does it put the Star of David on its flag.

In fact Israel's policies and actions are the complete opposite of Jewish philosophy.
Don't forget- Jews comprise 3-4 % of the US population.
But Jews were largely present in civil rights movement, the union movement, movement against child labor, anti-war. You name a progressive movement, Jews were there.

That is why we Jews find Israeli actions double disgusting.

klook

(12,151 posts)
31. I love the progressive tradition of Judaism,
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 09:42 PM
Jul 2014

although I am an atheist myself. Jews have done so much good in this world for social justice and the benefit of humanity.

That's why it's especially galling to see this rich philosophical tradition used as a mask to hide appalling aggression and brutality.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
24. Post 17 sums it up pretty well.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:31 PM
Jul 2014

Judaism is used as a crutch when it suits a particular narrative of a few here (everybody is an anti-Semite), but when people of substance say that Israel is wrong and they happen to be Jewish then it is somehow wrong?

Nonsense. Grow up.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
27. see post 25
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:42 PM
Jul 2014

Is Pam geller et al right about blaming Islam for what al sisi and assad etc. do?

How is it different when you post garbage about how Judaism is "losing its way"?

The only difference is the religion.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
30. It's only considered garbage by those who want to paint a rosy picture of Israel.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 07:41 PM
Jul 2014

So sorry for you and your inability to come to terms with the fact that Israel is an apartheid state.

On edit: If you had noticed the high rec count (on that and a few other posts) I would suggest that the article, and not the poster, is resonating with DUers. They understand, while you call foul.

Stay in the darkness of ignorance if you like. Frankly you're not my problem.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
3. jews have a right to live in their ancestral homeland
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:18 AM
Jul 2014

Just like they have been doing for thousands of years.

All the bullshit propaganda and revisionist history can't change that.


 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
5. Nobody has the right to colonize another people regardless
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:33 AM
Jul 2014

of what they claim their right to be. Israel has no right to colonize the Palestinian people's homeland; no matter how much some assh*le settler wants to take it from them.

Any person(s) making the claim that they own something or have the right to own something from two thousand years ago, while another people occupies that something in the present, is using in your words "bullshit propaganda and revisionist history."

Israel exists. Live in it or don't, but don't make the bankrupt excuse that Israel has more of a right than the Palestinians to their own territory.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
9. the jews never left their lands
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:44 AM
Jul 2014

They have been living continuously for thousands of years in palestine, israel, Judea and Samaria.

Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is a propagandist.

Jews used to live all throughout the middle east but the Arabs have engaged in ethnic cleansing and revisionist history in a pathetic attempt to erase middle eastern jewish history.

LuvNewcastle

(16,834 posts)
13. That's what I think.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:50 AM
Jul 2014

Israel exists, so there's no going back now. However, the Palestinians deserve to have a state as well. If there's going to be a two-state solution as I believe there should be, then a certain amount of land should be set aside for the Palestinians.

There's probably going to have to be a solution from the UN about this. I don't think the Israelis and Palestinians would ever come to a compromise on their own. Also, there will have to be an internationally enforced peace between the two states to make sure that neither provokes the other.

Whatever the UN determines the division to be, it should be seen as permanent, with no further discussion or negotiation about it. All nations in the area should have permanent borders set up. This shit has got to stop. The world is tired of it, and the people in the region ought to be sick of it as well.

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
15. the palestinians are required to negotiate a settlement with israel
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 02:05 AM
Jul 2014

Per unscr 242, 338 and 1515.

And if the un is going to occupy a country, maybe they should start with syria, where 175,000 people have been killed. Seems sort of stupid to me that someone would suggest israel when the middle east is filled with murderous dictatorships like in Syria, Egypt and Iran.

LuvNewcastle

(16,834 posts)
18. Israel is the place with all the international attention.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 02:48 AM
Jul 2014

Most people don't care what happens in Syria. However, there are a lot of Jews, Christians, and Muslims who are interested in what happens in Israel and Palestine.

I was raised as a Christian, but I'm not a follower of any of those religions anymore; however, because of all the international attention, I've become interested in events over there. Israel was formed fairly recently in world history, and the Israelis have steadily taken over more and more Palestinian territory. They're still allowing "settlers" to go into Palestinian territory today. I believe that is wrong.

I really don't care who was supposed to negotiate with whom. It is obvious that throughout all of these negotiations, each side has found reasons not to accept the other's offer. This is going to have to be dealt with by an international decision, either in a court or a UN vote. Also, peace will have to be enforced by an international authority since neither side can be trusted not to provoke the other. We've got to put the children on opposite sides of the room and sit in the middle. That's the only way to stop it.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
14. So. What are you referring to?
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:59 AM
Jul 2014

When you say Israel has no right to colonize the Palestinians homeland? Are you talking about settlers in the WB now? Or is this a comment about the immigrants who came to Palestine between the world wars?

Regarding places in east Jerusalem, do you consider that area exclusively palestinian land that's being colonized?

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
12. 100 years ago the palestinian arabs were syrians
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:48 AM
Jul 2014

Do you agree with the article about the israelis "nazi like expansion"

Do you?

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
34. yes...it is sickening that a people
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 10:45 PM
Jul 2014

Who survived a genocidal holocaust inflict the same thing on another group.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
26. Jews may ask for that, and they can live within Israel.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:33 PM
Jul 2014

Once a request becomes an invasion at gunpoint the whole "we have a right" meme is flushed down the toilet.

avebury

(10,951 posts)
28. Just like the American Indians had a right to live in their homeland and not
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jul 2014

marched across the country or otherwise forced to move onto reservations so that the White people could takeover their land (and natural resources of course).

Mosby

(16,258 posts)
29. thats exactly right
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 06:52 PM
Jul 2014

The Jews are an ancient tribe of the Levant and are trying to deal with very recent Muslim newcomers who, unfortunately, think that non Muslims are inferior and should be discriminated against.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
21. Thank you for having the courage to speak the truth
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 01:31 PM
Jul 2014

It is a truth I hope for my future grandchildren who will be Jewish.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
22. Go to the site and thank the author.
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 03:59 PM
Jul 2014

They could probably use some encouragement; seeing all the revisionistas and their disinformation policy in action.

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