(MUST READ) 'It's a nightmare, but I just don’t see a better policy'

[shira]

Very long article that goes a long way to explaining what Israelis are going through. Not intended for Israel bashers who support, condone, or tacitly support Hamas.

Two IAF pilots discuss the morality of the IDF, its determination to avoid civilian casualties, and what it is really like to be in the cockpit in wartime. A number of Israel Air Force officers are up in arms over recent accusations that airstrikes in Gaza are immoral.

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“I've gone on missions where non-combatants have been killed, leaving me deeply troubled,” says Colonel (res.) Ram Shmueli. “But if the choice is between missions that unfortunately affect noncombatants, and allowing our citizens to be killed, then the choice is clear.”

Lieutenant Colonel (res.) Tal Keinan also responded forcefully to what he sees as media indictment. "Coming to reserve duty means taking personal risk, and taking on the moral burden of missions that challenge our conscience," he says. "This is in defense, among other things, of peoples’ right to write whatever they wish in the media – even unfounded criticism. That is democracy.”

“It is not much of a secret,” says Keinan, a former F-16 pilot. “Missions in Gaza are not popular in the fighter pilot community. We were trained for air battles against well-equipped enemies in far-off places. No one wants to target enemies embedded in neighborhoods, and bear the real risk of harming non-combatants. The ethical dilemmas that result from that are terrible. But I do not see a better way. Israeli civilians are under fire, and that is not a reality we can accommodate. Defense is the responsibility of any democratically elected government, and of the military that carries out its policy.”

cont'd:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4548849,00.html

[PDJane]

1. Poor Israel.

[shira]

3. The OP is about Israelis, not Israel. n/t

[shira]

2. Some more from the OP:

"The situation is not easy but the moment our country is under attack, there are no dilemmas. If our children are reduced to hiding in bomb shelters, there is no reason we should not be using all methods at our disposal to remove the threat and eliminate those responsible. Rockets into our cities are an insufferable situation, one that no other country in the world would permit.”

Keinan elaborates further.

“I have friends in foreign air forces who think that the efforts we take to avoid civilian casualties are outrageous, bordering on irresponsible for a military tasked, first and foremost, with defending its own citizens. Let’s be clear: calling and sending text messages to civilians warning them to evacuate a structure, and instructing them on exactly where to go for safety, demands tremendous resources. How do you get the telephone numbers? How do you plot a route to safety for civilians in each individual circumstance? How do you communicate it clearly, in Arabic, so that the specific warning is actionable? Of course, you are also providing the enemy with actionable intelligence. The ‘Knock on the roof’ policy is not just a warning to civilians. It is also a statement to the enemy saying ‘This is what we plan to do in five minutes, and this is exactly where we plan to do it.’ This is obviously a questionable military tactic. It allows Hamas forces to remove rocket launchers from target structures, prepare ambushes for IDF forces, or as has been a deeply cynical modus operandi, send civilians into these structures, forcing us to abort important missions, or incur terrible consequences.

“During the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I cannot recall ever hearing of policies like these. Those conflicts produced civilian-to-combatant casualty rates of 3:1 and 4:1. The ratio in this conflict has been far lower. Any civilian death is a tragedy. One life is a whole world. One life is too many. But what exactly is the alternative? What other measures could we be taking in the face of cynical tactics specifically designed to maximize civilian casualties on both sides?”

No better option

Despite their extensive experience and conviction in the moral necessity of their actions, both Shmueli and Keinan admit there are missions that leave mental scars on the pilots involved.

“Years ago, an attack on the headquarters of an operative who was responsible for ongoing bus bombings in Israel produced unintended civilian casualties in a nearby home,” says Keinan. “The next day, Israeli newspapers carried a picture from the home of one of the dead, displaying a framed ‘Employee of the Month’ certificate that the man had earned for his work in a factory in southern Israel. That picture carried the weight of this ongoing tragedy for me. I could only envision this man, who was clearly proud of his association with people who happened to be Jews, as devoid of hatred. His death was an outrageous tragedy. I think about him every day.”

[PDJane]

4. Of course there's a better option.

Hamas has proposed a ten year cease fire. Of course, Israelis would have to stop shooting Palestinians.

[broiles]

5. +1

[shira]

7. What about an unconditional ceasefire? And why just 10 years? n/t

[King_David]

10. Egypt proposed a ceasefire longgg ago , Israel accepted it immediately

Hamas rejected it out of hand.

[Petrushka]

30. That "better option" came with a few demands --->

[PDJane]

31. Yep. It did. Reasonable requests.

Most of those requests had been agreed to by Israel and not acted upon. From mondoweiss:

The main demands of this proposal revolve around lifting the Israeli siege in Gaza through the opening of its borders with Israel to commerce and people, the establishment of an international seaport and airport under U.N. supervision, the expansion of the permitted fishing zone in the Gaza sea to 10 kilometers, and the revitalization of Gaza industrial zone. None of these demands is new. The United Nations among others have repeatedly demanded the lifting of the siege, which is illegal under international law, as a necessary condition to end the dire humanitarian situation in the Strip. The facilitation of movement of goods and people between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip had already been stipulated in the Agreement on Movement and Access (AMA) signed between the Government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority in 2005. Even the construction of a port and the possibility of an airport in Gaza had already been stipulated in the AMA, though the actual implementation never followed. The requested increase of the permitted fishing zone is less than what envisaged in the 1994 Oslo Agreements and it was already part of the 2012 ceasefire understanding. Unhindered fishermen’s access to the sea, without fear of being shot or arrested and having boats and nets confiscated by Israeli patrols is essential to the 3000 Gaza fishermen struggling to survive today by fishing in a limited area which is overfished and heavily polluted. The revitalization of the Gaza industrial zone, which has progressively been dismantled since the 2005 disengagement and by continuous military operations, was already considered a crucial Palestinian interest at the time of the 2005 Disengagement.

The proposed truce also demands the withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border and the Internationalization of the Rafah Crossing and its placement under international supervision. The presence of international forces on the borders and the withdrawal of the Israeli army requested by Hamas is unsurprising, considered the heavy toll of casualties by Israeli fire in the Access Restricted Areas near the Israeli border (i.e. an area of 1.5km along the border comprising 35% of Gaza land and 85% of its whole arable land). The international presence should guarantee that Egyptian and Israeli security concerns are equally met.

The proposal also requests Israel to release the Palestinian prisoners whom had been freed as part of the deal to liberate Gilat Shalit and were arrested after the killing of the three Israeli youths in June 2014 in the West Bank; that Israel refrains from interfering in the reconciliation agreement between Hamas and Fatah; and that the permits for worshippers to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque be eased.

Not only are these conditions sensible in light of previous agreements but, especially those who pertain to the lift of the siege, are the minimum standards that Hamas and the people of Gaza could accept in the current circumstances. As Raji Sourani reports, the most common sentence from people in Gaza after the announcement of the Egyptian ‘brokered’ ceasefire was “Either this situation really improves or it is better to just die”. The dire circumstances under which Gazans have lived in the last 7 years have indeed evoked in many the image of the enclave as “the world’s largest open air prison”. A prison which is overcrowded and where in 6 years there will no longer be enough drinkable water or capacity to provide other essential services, as a recent UN report denounces. Facing this gloomy context, for many the continuous launch of rockets from Gaza is a response to the siege and the harsh conditions imposed by the occupation.

They are very reasonable demands; why should they go back to status quo, the status quo that has driven them to fight back?

[Jefferson23]

6. Israeli Civil Society Groups Push For Gaza Withdrawal, Make Little Headway

July 23, 2014

snip* The data from the report supports some of the backlash Breaking the Silence and other groups like it have experienced over the past several weeks. Just a few days ago, a group of Israeli artists were attacked for holding a protest in Tel Aviv against the invasion of Gaza.

One of those groups is Breaking the Silence, which puts together former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers who served during the Second Intifada (from 2000 to 2005) and want to “expose the Israeli public to the reality of everyday life in the Occupied Territories,” according to its website. The group and like-minded people are "still the minority," Yehuda Shaul, a member and co-director of Breaking the Silence, said.

Other organizations include the Israeli Committee Against Housing Demolitions, a group that advocates for the end to forced evacuation of Palestinians from their homes, and Gush Shalom, a group of Israelis that work to influence Israeli public opinion and lead it towards peace and conciliation with the Palestinian people.

in full: http://www.ibtimes.com/israeli-civil-society-groups-push-gaza-withdrawal-make-little-headway-1637082

[shira]

8. Tunnels are a game-changer. Seems the IDF wasn't prepared for so many….

Israel simply cannot allow these tunnels going into Israel.

Can't have Israelis near the border constantly fearing mega-catastrophic terror attacks.

[Jefferson23]

9. Excuse me? What does that have to do with preventing an agreement? Nothing.

If anything, they need to deal with this mess now, not later.

[shira]

11. Can't withdraw with tunnels intact. Israeli public won't allow it.

They're a bigger threat than the rockets.

[Jefferson23]

12. Bibi talk, and absurd too... more force is not going to

destroy all the tunnels without more death. They need to make a deal that will not
necessitate the need for tunnels.

[shira]

13. Make a deal instead, okay. Like what? n/t

[Jefferson23]

14. Do you ever read anything that does not include an OP supporting the IDF and Bibi?

There are articles related to what Hamas is asking for, it is time for Israel to
deal with them and negotiate a way to end this, now.

[shira]

15. So capitulate to Hamas' demands, then trust Hamas to keep ceasefire...

Israelis aren't into slitting their own throats.

[Jefferson23]

16. Hyperbolic nonsense. Israel must negotiate, and I will recall your reply here when you

get angry at people claiming Israel has orchestrated a genocide against the Palestinians.

Try and remember, both claims are wrong.

[shira]

17. Israel's not going to cave 2 Hamas & shouldn't be expected to.

Hamas cannot expect to gain political concessions every time they decide to shoot rockets or attack via the tunnels. They'll always have demands.

And Israelis cannot accept tunnels, especially those near the Gaza border. How is it possible not to empathize with that?

[Jefferson23]

18. I get where you're coming from..no worries. I don't agree, to say the least..only

more death will come by this approach.

[shira]

19. It's likely more death will come from your approach...

Hamas simply cannot be trusted for….anything.

[Jefferson23]

20. More Bibi talk, bye. n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. I guess it is kind of what it must have been like

dealing with Irgun.

[MFM008]

27. lifting the seige

for 1, allowing the palestinians to fish off their own waters. Allowing commerce. If those people dont have hope, Israel will never have security.

[shira]

29. Hamas has proven it cannot be trusted w/ rockets, terror tunnels.

What makes you believe Hamas would stop attacking Israelis once the siege is lifted?

[azurnoir]

23. even the Israeli government admits they've known about the tunnels for years

so why are they such an issue only now?

[shira]

24. Reports in Israel show IDF surprised at number of terror tunnels. n/t

[azurnoir]

28. any port in a storm I guess

still doesn't explain why they were ignored until............

[Jefferson23]

21. Gaza: "40 percent of cases are children under five"

Sarah Woznick is a specialist intensive care nurse. She arrived in Gaza six months ago from Denver, Colorado. She was due to leave the mission the day after operation “Protective Edge” began. She decided to stay on to help provide medical care.

"I was scheduled to leave Gaza the day after the military operation “Protective Edge” started. That first day there were lots of air strikes in our area. It’s a strange feeling when you realise that one is falling not far from you.

http://www.msf.org.uk/article/gaza-40-percent-cases-are-children-under-five

[azurnoir]

25. Toddler 'killed in ICU' as Israel bombs Gaza City hospital

A toddler was killed and dozens of other Palestinians were injured in a Gaza City hospital late Thursday as an Israeli bomb struck the area, medics said.

Ibrahim al-Sheikh Omar, two-and-a-half years old, was in the ICU of Muhammad al-Durra hospital when an Israeli strike hit outside.

Medical sources said the boy was hit by shrapnel from the explosion, killing him on the spot.

Thirty other Palestinians were injured in the strike.

An Israeli army spokeswoman told Ma'an she was looking into the incident.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=716011

[Jefferson23]

26. More dead children..horrific. n/t

[PDJane]

32. They don't see a better way,

Because they don't wish to.

It is a war crime.

[shira]

33. You don't get it b/c you don't want to get it...

Israelis are under attack and genuinely fear for their lives.

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Then came Hamas and accomplished what had seemed impossible: it unified Israelis.

Dovish Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and the hawkish Bennett gave interviews on Israel's top-rated nightly news show on successive nights. They sounded remarkably the same.

There have been anti-war demonstrations. In Israel, in times of war and peace, there tend to be demonstrations about something or other every day.

But so far, the demonstrations have been a dramatic failure. Only Israeli Arab citizens and Jews on the fringe far-Left have participated in them.

There have been funerals of soldiers that have attracted far more people - in one case more than 30,000 - indicating overwhelming support for the Israel Defense Forces.

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog from the Labour Party - who will face off against Mr Netanyahu whenever Israel will have its next election - has praised the ground offensive in the Gaza Strip as strongly as the prime minister's closest supporters.

Unifying effect

The reason why Hamas has been so effective in unifying Israelis is that they attacked the Israeli consensus.

They didn't attack the West Bank, whose fate divides Israelis. They attacked Tel Aviv and close to Ben-Gurion International Airport with rockets, targeted left-wing agricultural communities on Israel's side of the border with Gaza from what Israel calls terror tunnels, and allegedly kidnapped boys on the way home from school in a society that is obsessed with children.

Palestinian mother (left) reacts to death of her son who medics said was killed by Israeli shelling (23 July 2014)
Many more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis, but Israelis put the blame on Hamas
By doing so, Hamas built up the stamina of an Israeli population that was more impatient in previous standoffs in Gaza.

Polls have shown that support for the ground offensive is sky-high and that Mr Netanyahu's backing of a proposed Egyptian cease fire was extremely unpopular.

A Panels poll taken on the eve of the invasion for the Knesset Channel, which broadcasts the Israeli parliament's proceedings, found that 63% of respondents wanted to enter the Gaza Strip and only 27% did not. Ten per cent did not answer or had no opinion in the poll, which surveyed a representative sample of the Israeli population, including Arabs.

Israelis are just as empathetic to the tragic Palestinian death toll in Gaza as other people around the world. They just blame it on Hamas firing from among civilian populations, rather than on the Israeli army's air strikes.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28437986