Poll finds Israelis don't believe charges of excessive force

[Fozzledick]

Less than four percent of Israeli Jews accept accusations from the international community that the IDF has used excessive firepower in the Gaza Strip during Operation Protective Edge, according to the monthly Peace Index poll sponsored by the Israel Democracy Institute and Tel Aviv University.

The poll was conducted in three stages during the operation. On July 14, 246 Israeli adults were surveyed, 185 on July 16 to 17, and 216 on July 23.

In none of the stages of polling did more than 3.8% say the IDF used excessive force. The balance believed that the IDF used an appropriate level of firepower (37-60%) or insufficient firepower (33-57%).

Over the course of the surveys, Israeli Jewish public opinion has been consistently nearly unanimous in its definition of Operation Protective Edge as justified - an average of 95% over the course of the three surveys.

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Poll-Over-96-percent-of-Israeli-Jews-do-not-believe-the-IDF-is-using-excessive-force-in-Gaza-369283

[Jefferson23]

1. If this is accurate, it does not speak well of their humanity. Taking polls during all the

violence asking if the violence is proportional is not tainted?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

2. The comparisons to historical paralells

Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:13 PM - Edit history (1)

is a little creepy.

Well, every society has to have their goon squad: ready to stand tall and cheer as their leaders kill the 'enemy' and their children in cold blood.

[azurnoir]

35. well speaking for myself I put about as much stock in this as I would or have polls taken

of Palestinians at times like this which is to say not much at all

[Jefferson23]

36. I agree and I believe you have said as much many times when we see these polls.

While I watched with horror what GW Bush was doing to the Iraqi people, and someone
polled me about that..I don't think my response would have been too thoughtful at that
moment in time.

[Jefferson23]

37. The poll might turn out differently if they were allowed to read the names:

B'Tselem petitions Israel’s High Court to oblige Israel Broadcasting Authority to broadcast names of Gazan children killed
Published:
29 Jul 2014

Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem petitioned the High Court of Justice (HCJ) yesterday, 28 July 2014, seeking to oblige the Israel Broadcasting Authority (IBA) to air radio spots produced by B’Tselem which incorporate the names of a few of the more than 200 Palestinian children killed in Gaza in Operation Protective Edge. The IBA refused to air the radio spots on the grounds of being “controversial”, not balanced, and possibly provoking public controversy over the military operation.

http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20140729_children_name_campaign_petition

[geek tragedy]

3. Israelis don't place much value on Palestinian lives.

Never have, never will.

Dick Cheney would be a moderate there.

[Fozzledick]

5. How dare they value their own lives more than the terrorists who are trying to kill them.

[geek tragedy]

10. Nonsensical response.

Israel has killed hundreds of children in Gaza, a fact that doesn't seem to bother 95% of Israelis and Israel's supporters in the US. The only thing that bothers them is when people state the plain fact that Israel killed those children.

Then sophistry like "why does Hamas kill those children" comes from those folks, ignoring that as a matter of physics and medical science and logic that IDF bombs are the cause of death.

The plain fact is that dead Palestinian children aren't a concern to most Israelis.

[Fozzledick]

12. There's no excuse for Hamas' policy of killing their own civilians.

Why do you even try?

[geek tragedy]

13. Is Hamas flying the planes that drop the bombs

that kill the children?

[Fozzledick]

15. 50 Shades of Hamas.

I am so sick of Hamas' kiddie snuff porn and the consumers who enable them.

[geek tragedy]

16. Yes, you are upset that Israel gets blamed, not

because of the underlying tragedy.

Thx for confirming.

[Fozzledick]

18. I believe in putting the blame on those who are actually responsible.

You obviously disagree.

[geek tragedy]

19. True or false: the physical causes of death

are trauma caused by IDF ordinance exploding in close proximity to the children.

Note: this question concerns the physics and medical science of how they die, not the motives or strategy or causes of those bombs being dropped.

[Fozzledick]

21. What a worthless attempt at diversion!

No concern with "the motives or strategy or causes of those bombs being dropped."

I can understand why you want to deny the causes.

[geek tragedy]

22. Afraid to answer the question? nt

[Fozzledick]

25. You really want to play that game???

WHO STARTED THIS WAR BY SHOOTING ROCKETS AT CIVILIANS?

WHO CHOOSES TO KEEP IT GOING BY CONTINUING TO SHOOT ROCKETS AT CIVILIANS AND REFUSING EVERY CEASE FIRE?

I'll be waiting for your answers before replying to anything else from you, but I won't be holding my breath.

[geek tragedy]

34. This war began decades ago.

Hamas has a depraved lack of regard for any life, Palestinian or otherwise. Their goal very well may be to goad Israel into killing children.

That said, Israel has a peculiar interest in playing Hamas's game while refusing to do anything to support Palestinian moderates, particularly Israel refuses to give Palestinians any reason to think negotiations are relevant.

[FBaggins]

27. True or false X2 ...

... Hamas knows how to get bombs to fall on Palestinian children and does so intentionally.

For the next one - the "sides" are Hamas / Israel

... Only one side benefits from the death of Palestinian children - and it isn't Israel.

[geek tragedy]

28. Hamas does commit war crimes by placing weapons

too close to civilian concentrations. This does not give Israel a free pass to avoid its duty to minimize civilian casualties.

[FBaggins]

30. Both true

Unfortunately... we're not in a position to judge how well they're performing that duty to minimize civilian casualties.

If rockets are fired from a schoolyard or hospital... you are faced with either potential civilian casualties, or soon every rocket will be launched from such points. What does "minimizing" call for in such circumstances and how are we to judge the success/failure of such attempts from half a world away?

We also know, for instance, that Gaza casualty figures come almost exclusively from the Gazan Health Ministry... which counts everyone not in a military uniform as a civilian casualty. Historically, many Hamas terrorists have not worn uniforms, and this standard gives them every reason to avoid them. And, of course, the Health Ministry is part of Hamas (who benefits politically from every civilian death, but not at all from the death of a Hamas terrorist) - So how should I read claims tha 80% of the casualties in Gaza have been civilians?

[geek tragedy]

32. Israeli government estimates 70% civilians, no?

Gaza is going to be uninhabitable by the time Israel is done--no power, no water treatment, medical infrastructure, etc.

Purpose of that?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

39. It's all in Israel's master plan.

[FBaggins]

40. I haven't seen that. Can you provide a link?

Gaza is going to be uninhabitable by the time Israel is done--no power, no water treatment, medical infrastructure, etc.

Purpose of that?

Hamas' purpose is very likely to improve their standing in world opinion. Israel's purpose in letting Hamas goad them into doing that? I don't know... presumably to reduce Hamas' ability to fight.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

38. That would be the IDf then.

[It was not a pretzel]

41. sick

So if the pictures of dead Arab kids aren't shown then it didn't happen?

On another day you could be a holocaust denier.

Your defence of the indefensible and justification for babykillers is sickening.

[stranger81]

4. Poll: Israel a morally bankrupt country.

Busy creating generations of new enemies, at home and abroad.

[Fozzledick]

6. Yeah, self defense against aggressive war is so immoral!!1!

[stranger81]

7. Military campaigns against occupied, captive populations, with a higher than 80%

civilian casualty rate, are unquestionably immoral. If you think otherwise, I suggest you check your moral compass.

[Fozzledick]

8. If you think genocidal terrorism is acceptable, then you're in no position to preach morality.

[stranger81]

9. "Genocidal terrorism"? By no stretch of the imagination is Hamas responsible for

genocide. I think you must be confusing them with ISRAEL.

[Fozzledick]

11. Hamas has made it's genocidal intent unambiguously clear - it's right in their charter.

I think you must be confusing me for someone who doesn't know the facts.

[stranger81]

14. Both Likud and Hamas effectively state the same thing in their charters.

Hamas may talk about wanting to exterminate an entire population. Israel not only talks about wanting to exterminate its Palestinian population -- it's trying to accomplish that with bombs.

Even a cursory look at the casualty figures on both sides, whether for this short term conflict or over the longer term, leaves no doubt that the only country here engaged in trying to commit genocide is ISRAEL.

[Fozzledick]

17. That's a truly horrible fantasy you have there.

I think you've let your hate get the better of you.

[geek tragedy]

20. Projection. nt

[stranger81]

24. Projection is their first line of defense.

Every.

Goddamn.

Time.

[stranger81]

23. No, I've just watched more than a 1000 people slaughtered in a few weeks time,

more than 200 of them children, being shot like fish in a barrel.

Maybe you get off on that. I sure as fuck don't.

[King_David]

29. Hamas is 100% responsible

They force the IDF to stop the rockets , they hide among civilians and in un schools , they instruct people not to evacuate , they turned down the Egyptian cease fire out of hand and yesterday they themselves bombed a Palestinian hospital...

Hamas is responsible for this misery 100%

[stranger81]

31. Keep telling yourself that. It obviously makes you feel sanguine (pun intended) about everything.

The rest of us can see what's actually happening on the ground. Only one side is doing the slaughtering here, and it's Israel. It could choose to stop today, but it won't. There are still more children who need to die.

[King_David]

26. 7:0 to leave it , gives one pause.

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing someone of supporting genocide because they oppose the killing of children. Psychotic neocon agitprop.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:26 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Psychotic, maybe -- I fully disagree with this poster's angle, however this post is not a hide-able offense here in the land of moral ambiguity and no principles whatsoever. Used a hypothetical, not a personal attack. Vote to leave despite my misgivings.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is all part and parcel of the I/P debate.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not only is the poster correct the alert is bogus and should be looked into.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These two are having a heated discussion and both giving as well as they get. Nothing over the top here.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[stranger81]

33. FWIW, I didn't and wouldn't have alerted on that post.

Genocide should be a topic of discussion in I/P. It's happening, so we should be talking about it. We should be making those who support it own it.