US hits back at Netanyahu: American values led us to fund Iron Dome

[Jefferson23]

White House press secretary says 'it’s American values that led to this country’s unwavering support of Israel,' bemoans fact Netanyahu's criticism 'seemed to ignore our concerns.'

Ynetnews
Published: 10.06.14

The White House hit back Monday at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's accusation that US criticism of Israeli settlement construction was "against American values,"

A long-time split between President Barack Obama and Netanyahu appeared to widen further after the Israeli leader's visit to the White House last week.

Netanyahu, in an interview on the CBS program "Face the Nation" on Sunday, called the administration’s condemnation of the project “baffling.”

"It's against the American values. And it doesn't bode well for peace," he said. "The idea that we'd have this ethnic purification as a condition for peace, I think it's anti-peace."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4578434,00.html

[Scootaloo]

1. well, as some posters here showed...

There is a very real sense of disdain for the iron dome system. Netanyahu and his ilk would much rather have Israelis getting killed by rockets than not.

[Jefferson23]

2. I find it telling that Netanyahu doesn't give a shit what he says, especially of late. n/t

[King_David]

3. ' as some posters here showed'

Last edited Mon Oct 6, 2014, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

You are on a roll recently...

Please prove this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=83371

[Scootaloo]

7. That would require a call-out Dave

Maybe just go back to July and look for omeone who's mocking the efficacy of the iron dome system.

[King_David]

9. Nah, too much work. nt

[Scootaloo]

10. Not as much work as proper placement of apostrophes, apparently n/t

[King_David]

11. Corrected and no apostrophe was needed. nt

[shira]

41. Are you OK? No one supporting Israel has a very real sense of disdain for Iron Dome. n/t

[BillZBubb]

4. Notice how the slime ball Netanyahu twists logic on its head.

Opposition to the settlements, which are in fact tools of Israeli ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, is spun by BS artist extraordinaire Netanyahu into calls for ethnic purity. The guy has got no decency. Of course he knows all the Israeli apologists will jump on board to push this rubbish.

The settlements are the most anti-peace action in the Middle East, by far.

[oberliner]

6. Have you ever been to Jerusalem?

The Old City for example - the Jewish Quarter - this is within E Jerusalem.

[King_David]

8. And Silwan and the City of David are just there,

If you stay at a hotel, for example The Citadel David, and walk to the old city or nearby, or the Kotel, you walk right past these areas.

[oberliner]

20. That is true

What do you think should happen with respect to Jerusalem in a peace agreement with the Palestinians?

[King_David]

21. I can't see any gov of Israel of any stripe releasing that area.

What should happen is a different matter to what will happen .

Jerusalem is the toughest nut to crack and as unfair as it may be the Palestinians will have to concede if they want their state.

[oberliner]

24. Do you think it could be the capital of both states?

And maybe work out some kind of protected status for the holy sites?

[King_David]

26. I can't see the 2 peoples ever trusting

each other to allow an open city without such things as the threat of terrorism .

That makes it unlikely .

[Scootaloo]

12. And is also outside Israel

Unless of course we want to just accept a standard where any nation who has the military power can just forcibly seize and annex whatever territory they want.

or alternately, if we want to set a standard where Israel, and Israel alone among all nations on earth, has the right to do this.

[oberliner]

14. It was forcibly seized and annexed by Jordan in 1948 and occupied by them until 1967

That was the first time the city of Jerusalem had ever been divided in its history.

[Scootaloo]

16. So two wrongs make a right, in addition to might makes right.

well okay then.

[oberliner]

17. The Old City should be open and free

The city needs to be shared in a manner similar to what was proposed in the Clinton Parameters. It should serve as the capital of both states with each state retaining sovereignty over neighborhoods predominately inhabited by its respective community. There should be freedom of worship for all faiths in all of the important religious sites for the respective religious adherents.

[Scootaloo]

35. Tell it to the occupying power.

But out of curiosity, maybe you can show us another city on earth that is shared in such a fashion, so we know what sorr of template is being proposed?

[oberliner]

39. There is no city on earth like Jerusalem

Templates for what is being proposed can be found in numerous places. I think the best place to start is in the proposal put forth in the Geneva Initiative:

http://www.geneva-accord.org

Pay specific attention to Article 6, which begins this way:

Article 6 – Jerusalem

Religious and Cultural Significance:

The Parties recognize the universal historic, religious, spiritual, and cultural significance of Jerusalem and its holiness enshrined in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In recognition of this status, the Parties reaffirm their commitment to safeguard the character, holiness, and freedom of worship in the city and to respect the existing division of administrative functions and traditional practices between different denominations.

The Parties shall establish an inter-faith body consisting of representatives of the three monotheistic faiths, to act as a consultative body to the Parties on matters related to the city’s religious significance and to promote inter-religious understanding and dialogue. The composition, procedures, and modalities for this body are set forth in Annex X.

[Scootaloo]

47. You misunderstand

I want to see a live, working template of the idea. Demonstrate its feasibility.

[azurnoir]

22. East Jersalem was forcedably seized by Jordan in 1948? who was it seized from?

who had sovereignty over East Jerusalem in 1948?

[oberliner]

23. Wikipedia might be a good place for you to start

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank

Hopefully that will answer some of your questions and point you in the right direction to learn more.

[azurnoir]

25. again in your own words what sovereign entity did Jordan seize East Jerusalem from ?

I am already quite familiar with the heavily edited wiki page. Your insinuation of ignorance on my part simply will not wash in this case

[King_David]

27. Well why you asking if you know ?

Read up.

LOL

[azurnoir]

28. I was asking oberliner but do you know? Why all the dithering?

it seems a simple enough question

[King_David]

32. Well this whole threads full of inaccuracies

clouded as fact, but it never made it through group members who actually know and understand IP.

It goes together with those posts talking about Jewish settlements in Gaza and yet another land grab in Gaza and Arab governments offering Palestinians citizenship etc etc etc etc.

[oberliner]

29. I didn't realize you were asking a question that you knew the answer to.

I don't understand the purpose of that. Maybe I am the one who is ignorant.

So I guess that means you know that when Jordan took control of E Jerusalem, they evicted close to 2,000 Jews who were living in and around the Old City.

If not, I can provide a Wikipedia link with that information as well. I don't know how heavily edited it is.

[azurnoir]

30. again what sovereign entity or country did Jordan "seize" East Jerusalem from?

seems to be quite a bit of dithering about a simple question

[oberliner]

31. Have you ever heard of the British Mandate of Palestine?

After the British Mandate the question of Palestine was turned over to the UN.

The UN voted to establish a Jewish and Arab state in Palestine.

A war broke out involving both Jews and Arab Palestinian inhabitants as well as outside countries.

The war resulted in the occupation of the West Bank, including E Jerusalem by Jordan who seized the territory and evicted all of the Jewish inhabitants.

[King_David]

33. And Jordan annexed the area too.

On April 24 1950

[azurnoir]

34. of course but the mandate ended on May 14 1948, so at best

it could be the UN however Israel's assassination of UN negotiator Bernadotte Folke on 9/17/1948 the day after he made proposals for the fate of Jerusalem could be said to nullify that

[Scootaloo]

36. Wait what?

After the British Mandate the question of Palestine was turned over to the UN.

I'm afraid you're confused. The issue was never "turned over" to the UN. The UN sought to resolve the issue of course,, but there was no point where anyone handed it off to the UN and said "your ptoblem now." The British remained in occupation of the Palestinian Mandate until May 14 1948.

The UN voted to establish a Jewish and Arab state in Palestine.

Actually the UN voted to suggest such a partition. Even back then, the UN lacked the abilit to establish or demand the invention of nations.

A war broke out involving both Jews and Arab Palestinian inhabitants as well as outside countries.

A civil war had been ongoing for lmost a year at this point. The Arab League moved to intervene in the civil war as soon as the British Mandate ended (tellingly, the british were not doing much about the bloodbath...)

The war resulted in the occupation of the West Bank, including E Jerusalem by Jordan who seized the territory and evicted all of the Jewish inhabitants.

And if they hadn't, Israel would have seized it instead and evicted all the Arabs. At least the one who wouldn't have been summarily executed.

[Shaktimaan]

50. Really?

And if they hadn't, Israel would have seized it instead and evicted all the Arabs. At least the one who wouldn't have been summarily executed.

And you know this, how?

How many Arabs did Israel evict (or summarily execute" in the western portion of Jerusalem?

For that matter, since jerusalem's been taken over by Israel, how many Arabs have been executed or evicted? Am I correct in assuming that some Arabs still do live there? And the last time I checked, al aqua hasn't been knocked down yet, has it? (Unlike the 50 some odd ancient synagogues that existed in east Jerusalem when Jordan took over.)

[Scootaloo]

51. Because that's what Israel was doing, Shaktimaan.

Nine days before the capture of west Jerusalem by Israel, Israeli forces had depopulated Ramle and Lydda - including by massacre at Lydda. On the same day that Israel occupied the Western portion of the city, it had depopulated the towns of Artuf, Islin, and Shilta. Over the course of Operation Yevusi a month before, roughly 30,000 Arab Jerusalemites were reduced to refugees. A month before that was the massacre at Dier Yassin.

There's no reason to imagine that Israel's trajectory towards ethnic cleansing would have been halted for Jerusalem, had it not been for the surprisingly able Jordanian defense over the Old City and the two cease-fires maintained by the British.

Especially considering Israel's current spate of expulsions, home destructions, land confiscations, the fact that East Jerusalem's Arab population had dropped by 18% two weeks after its occupation, and the fact that Arabs in Jerusalem - either side - live under different rules than Jews, which makes it easier for Israel to strip their status as residents of Jerusalem - thus enabling the state to declare them "absentee" and confiscate their land and properties under the Absentee laws which remain on Israel's books (and functionally only apply to Arab "absentees.&quot

[oberliner]

5. One needs to understand that Netanyahu doesn't consider anything in E Jerusalem to be settlements

So he is saying that by not allowing Jews to live in a portion of Jerusalem one is going against the American values of diversity or something along those lines.

[Scootaloo]

13. What Netanyahu "considers" and what the reality is, are usually very different things, indeed.

[oberliner]

18. It just helps to get a sense of why he says what he says here

He puts the West Bank and E Jerusalem in very different categories.

Those both to the right and to the left of him do not.

[Scootaloo]

37. Oh, it's npt hard ot understand his posiition, Oberliner

it's just that, as much as you apologize for him, his position is still completely wrong.

[oberliner]

38. It is for some

Not everyone understands that he makes a distinction between E Jerusalem and the West Bank.

[Scootaloo]

40. Well, as I noted it really doesn't matter if he does or not

[King_David]

42. Who's opinion is important then if not the prime minister of Israel no matter what political stripe?

The Internationals who consider themselves more Palestinian than Palestinians ? ( like Alex Kane of Mondoweiss who urged Hamas to reject a cease fire .
And also half the people in this group when some are not acting as Jewish voices)

[Scootaloo]

44. It's not a matter of opinion; East Jerusalem is occupied territory

[King_David]

45. Jerusalem will never be divided again

It may not be fair but in the end if Palestine is to be , Ramallah is going to be the new Jerusalem .

It's just the way it's going to have to be.

[Scootaloo]

46. So israel is not beholden to international laws and treaties it has signed onto?

Why not? Where is the source of this privilege that immunizes Israel from such trivialities?

[King_David]

48. There is no other way

The status quo is not an option .

There will be 2 states .

[Scootaloo]

49. This doesn't answer my question

East Jerusalem is occupied territory. Has been occupied by Israel since 1967. Occupying powers do not have any rights at all to the territory they occupy. That's international law, and is actually law that Israel is party to. Israel's attempts to annex is as illegal as Jordan's attempt was, and just as reviled by the rest of the world, who as a whole continue to recognize it as Palestinian territory that is under occupation. Even the United States - including the Democratic party - recognizes this fact.

So I'm asking you, what on earth gives Israel the privilege of ignoring international law here, and proceeding with its attempts at annexation of occupied territory?

[shira]

55. No one has exclusive claim to E.Jerusalem

No one recognized it as Palestinian territory up until 1967. The 1964 PLO charter made no claims to any of the W.Bank or Gaza. They changed their tune only after 1967 for obvious reasons; they wanted what the Jews had. If Palestinians didn't see E.Jerusalem as theirs until 1967, why would the rest of the world assume it was ever exclusively theirs?

[Scootaloo]

57. It's occupied territory, Shira. That means it not Israel. That means Israelis have no right to it.

[Jefferson23]

15. How would you respond to him, speaking for the WH? n/t

[oberliner]

19. Exactly the way the WH did

I'd be as pissed at Netanyahu as Obama currently is.

[shira]

43. That's true but OTOH Israel only gets criticized for building homes for Jews....

....in Jerusalem, not for building Arab homes. For example:

http://www.jta.org/2014/09/04/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/plans-for-eastern-jerusalem-arab-neighborhood-include-2200-housing-units

So Arab homes okay, Jews homes not okay.

See the problem?

[azurnoir]

52. 2200 units that's nice helps make up for the 20,000+ that have been demolished

Since 1967, about 27,000 Palestinian homes and other structures (livestock pens and fencing for example) crucial for a family’s livelihood, have been demolished in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), including East Jerusalem. It is impossible to know how many homes exactly because the Israeli authorities only report on the demolition of “structures,” which may be homes or may be other structures. When a seven-story apartment building is demolished containing more than 20 housing units, that is considered only one demolition. Some homes are as yet incomplete when they are demolished, but the financial loss to families (70% of the Palestinians live below the poverty line, on less than $2 a day), plus the inability to obtain decent and adequate housing, constitutes a fundamental violation of tens of thousands of people to shelter.

http://www.icahd.org/faq

[shira]

53. So when Israel builds homes for Arabs in Jerusalem, it's not enough...

When it comes to Jews, building even one is bad.

Correct?

[azurnoir]

54. Too little too late according to Meretz member Meir Margalit

and you've said you support Meretz right?

Jerusalem City Councilman Meir Margalit of the Meretz party, who holds the eastern Jerusalem portfolio, called the approved plan “too little, too late,” The Jerusalem Post reported.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/09/04/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/plans-for-eastern-jerusalem-arab-neighborhood-include-2200-housing-units#ixzz3FrGj0i7F

[Israeli]

56. Wrong azurnoir....

...she supports Meretz as much as I support Elad.

Interesting who does support them tho .....

http://972mag.com/elie-wiesel-and-amos-yadlin-congratulate-east-jerusalem-settlers/97540/