Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsrael's universities launch new anti-BDS initiative with Hillel
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/15754-israels-universities-launch-new-anti-bds-initiative-with-hillelThe Committee of University Heads in Israel, a body representing seven research universities on matters such as budgeting and wages, announced last week the new partnership with Hillel International, a Jewish student organization present on more than 550 campuses worldwide.
The collaboration will see the Committee coordinating activities with Hillel to "combat calls for an academic boycott", a call that is part of the wider Palestinian campaign for Boycott Divestment Sanctions (BDS) until Israel ends its violations of basic rights and international law.
Specifically, Hillel will "notify the Committee of any attempt to organize boycotts and will help with on-the-ground activities towards the public struggle against academic boycotts", while also lobbying on campuses against the boycott.
Israel is not the world, and the world grows tired of Israeli apartheid.
What does Israel propose to dissuade the world from the just chorus of BDS? A doorknock and some splainin later on?
Good luck.
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Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)like they have in Gaza.
Israel can't burn them out like so many Palestinian olive groves.
Israel can't snipe at them with live rounds then insist that they haven't.
Israel can't move into these institutions and push out the local staff with transplants from Brooklyn.
But Israel can mobilize its army of splainers to spread whatever funk will grow the best blanket hasbara against BDS.
And if that doesn't work then perhaps they can rely on the old and tired "everybody hates us" guilt trip. 
shira
(30,109 posts)BDS can be exposed for its support of terrorists like Rasmieh Odeh, rockets killing civilians, terror tunnels....
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)that poorly attempt to vilify critics of Israeli apartheid
shira
(30,109 posts)You're the one arguing here that Jews have no right to pray at their holiest site on earth where their Temple once existed.
Please enlighten us; why do u pretend to oppose apartheid while advocating for it?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)you at times for being so morally
out of touch.
Let me explain this ad I would to my own child.
Another people are presently in ownership of Al Asqa mount. No matter how much you want to take other peoples belongings you will just have to realize that they don't belong to you. They never belonged to YOU. If you attempt to take them then that amounts yo theft...something that Israel foes all the time WRT the Palestinians.
But thank you for the weak attempt at playing the victim.
shira
(30,109 posts)....and pray at their holiest site.
But I guess you're forced to believe that when u support apartheid against a religious group of people.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's strange that some in Israel and abroad feel compelled to take more from the Palestinians / Muslim...then cry about being treated unfairly.
shira
(30,109 posts)Isn't that what you said about the Jews?
Quite odious.
========================
And no one but the most unhinged extremists advocates for taking the site away from the Palestinians or Muslims.
========================
Tell you what - back your claim up. Show us where Israel is about to take the Mosque away - to steal it.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)they take lands that don't belong to them...i.e. the West Bank then demand that we answer a set of questions to deflect from their theft of those lands.
Only the right wingers are chomping at the bit for Al Asqa mount. Moshe Feglin et al...and shira I guess.
shira
(30,109 posts)The answer is Israel's not doing anything to take the Mount.
Netanyahu isn't even attempting to allow Jews to pray on the Mount.
All you're doing here is throwing crap at the wall, hoping some of it sticks. Hurling ad-hominems, crowing like a middle-school bully.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)He added, "the fact that there is a necessity for a security escort at an hour when Arabs are walking around here freely without any fear, says more than anything who feels like a visitor here and who feels like the owner of this site. We will change this reality with the help of God."
and more crazy...
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/feiglins-zealous-jerusalem
Feiglin had planned to lead the group into the area of the Temple Mount, but police sealed the entrance. “Not letting Jews pray at the holiest place to the Jewish nation, the Temple Mount is a prize, as we see right now, is a prize to bring more and more terrorism,” he lamented. The Knesset member went on to compare himself to a “raped woman,” because of the state’s actions.
“I’m a Jew and I’m not allowed to go to the Temple Mount, for a Jew that almost got murdered yesterday,” said Feiglin, continuing, “So who’s the raped woman? The violent side, or the Jewish side?”
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)Of Israel trying to "take" al Aqua away from the Muslims; the craziest right wing example you can find, are activists demanding the right to pray at their most sacred site.
In reality, no one is trying to take anything away from the Muslims. And only a small radical sect is even protesting for equal access. Israel has no actual plans to change policy there at the moment.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)attempt to whitewash it all if you like.
shira
(30,109 posts)Why don't you quote him calling for Israel to take the Temple Mount away from Palestinians or Muslims?
Support your claim or fold.
I predict you'll deflect with some stupid ad-hominem attack because the act of a Zionist merely questioning you is racist.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin
In 1993, Moshe Feiglin co-founded the Zo Artzeinu ("This our Land/Country"
movement with Shmuel Sackett to protest the Oslo Accords. On August 8, 1995, 80 intersections throughout the country were blocked in a massive act of civil disobedience against the Oslo process. As a result of his activities, Feiglin was sentenced to six months in prison in 1997 for sedition against the state by Israel's Supreme Court. The sentence was later commuted to community service.
In November 1996, Moshe Feiglin established the Manhigut Yehudit movement to foster Jewish leadership for Israel. In 2000, the movement joined Israel's Likud party as a faction dedicated to the same goal. Feiglin declared that he would be a candidate for chairmanship of the party as a springboard for premiership of the State of Israel.
“We have to internalize that this is our Land – exclusively.... Most important: We must expel the Moslem wakf from the Temple Mount and restore exclusive Israeli sovereignty over this most holy site.”
You asked and have received it, my out of touch friend.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 14, 2014, 01:28 AM - Edit history (1)
When I tried looking for the website that wikipedia points to I found that it doesn't exist anymore.
Here's where it sends us. The page isn't there anymore. Maybe it still exists in hebrew somewhere.
=======================
On edit:
I'm wrong. He definitely said it.
It goes w/o saying Feiglin is one crazy SOB. But even in that quote he's not saying Palestinians and Muslims shouldn't be allowed at the site. He's saying Israel should control it in order to allow everyone religious freedom there.
Doesn't matter, it's batshit crazy, would spark a really nasty war, and would cost Israel its support from the vast majority of Jews worldwide. IOW, it will never happen. No chance. There can't be more than a tiny sliver of a percentage of Jews who'd actually line up with Feiglin in order to carry that doozy out.
=======================
Of course I'm sure you'll keep saying this is what Israel really wants. I'd be disappointed if you didn't...
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)So why don't you go screaming about no proof! no proof!
You see, shira, you asked and I delivered. No go run along and distill another angle.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Time to move on.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's Al Asqua Mount. The Romans tor down the old temple two thousand years ago. It's been gone a long time. Speaking of time it's time to get over it.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)That's not a thing. For Jews it's the Temple Mount. For Muslims it's the haram al sharif, or noble sanctuary. You're just mushing together the names for some reason and assuming that your creation is a legitimate title. I'm not sure why.
Another people are presently in ownership of Al Asqa mount. No matter how much you want to take other peoples belongings you will just have to realize that they don't belong to you. They never belonged to YOU. If you attempt to take them then that amounts yo theft...something that Israel foes all the time WRT the Palestinians.
Another people currently "own" the Temple Mount? Wow, I'm not even sure how you came to such a conclusion, that a site considered holy by several religions falls under the sole ownership of just one of them? Why, exactly?
And even if it were the case, you really have no leg to stand on regarding your argument supporting the restriction of Jews from praying at the site, (which in no way negates Muslim use of the site); especially for the specious reasons as you've voiced.
Any way you look at it, you're essentially saying that religious discrimination is acceptable if the group demanding it is a disenfranchised minority.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Grow up and move on.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)And does anyone else think it's the "al Aqua mount" besides you?
Cuz I googled that phrase and I gotta tell you, no one else on the planet besides you seems to think so.
There's a mosque there now
There's also the dome of the rock and the dome of the chain, the former having been built on the foundation stone, the relic marking the location where the holy of Holies in the temple once stood. This stone sits at the epicenter of the Jewish faith, and is what Jews have faced in prayer for thousands of years.
Your posts on this subject seem to imply that you feel one religion can make a claim of sole ownership over sites like this, despite having an undeniable significance in several religions. You seem to think that the mosque is what gives the site significance, while in reality the mosque's location is derived from the significance of the site's role in Islamic religous history. Should the mosque be destroyed, it would not diminish the importance of the haram al-sharif. Similarly the lack of a temple there does not diminish the singular importance of the site wrt Judaism.
Most disturbing is your eagerness to deny equal rights for all religions because of your political beliefs. You constantly mention the distinction between Israel and the Jewish people, yet when it comes to the Temple Mount your argument for denying equal access to Jews centers on the actions of Israel.
It seems that you only make this distinction when it suits you as you clearly have no issues with denying equal rights to Jewish people as a whole because of your political views on the state of Israel.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)There hasn't bee a temple there for millennia.
There's a mosque there now.
But please go ahead and splain away why Israel should be allowed to strong-arm its way onto yet another parcel of diminishing Palestinian / Muslim real estate?
Just like they have in the West Bank.
Just like they have made Gaza an open-air prison.
It's not hard to imagine that the Palestinians / Muslims want none of that.
It's not hard to imagine why: once the Israelis get a foot in the door the crazies will want more and more and more…until it all belongs to them…and their shiny new temple.
The West Bank it a prime example of this mentality.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Nada
You invented that ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) King_David
(14,851 posts)The first result is The Temple Mount
I guess your invention is not taking off?
Not one taker....
shira
(30,109 posts)
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)I did try again and nothing unique at all - it Opens Lots of stuff on The temple mount and on Al Aqsa mosque but not one thing on "Al Aqsa Mount"
He made up this terminology.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)you stated here it that nothing came up
56. I did Google Al Aqsa Mount
Nada
You invented that ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=89989
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Al+Aqsa+Mount
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There are hits for "Al Aqsa Mosque" or "Temple Mount" but not "Al Aqsa Mount".
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Not the best interference for someone and not a good deflection either.
You know why?
Because I said he invented the term 'Al Aqsa Mount' and he did invent it and it has been proven to be an invention by Shaktimaan,Myself and now Azurnoir......
King_David
(14,851 posts)"Al Aqsa Mount "
That terminology??
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)
Star Member King_David (10,145 posts)
56. I did Google Al Aqsa Mount
Nada
You invented that ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=89989
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 13, 2014, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)
The claim was "If you Google Al Aqsa Mount The first result is The Temple Mount"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=89991
That statement is accurate. There are no hits for the terminology "Al Aqsa Mount".
Pretty sure there was no claim that putting those words into Google would lead to an empty result, just that nothing with that terminology would be listed (which it isn't). There is almost no series of words you can Google (without quotes) that will come up completely blank.
Can we agree that "Al Aqsa Mount" isn't a thing, but rather that there is Temple Mount and Al Aqsa Mosque?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Lots was found ,as in any Google search ever,just not his invention of 'Al Aqsa mount'
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)
But please go ahead and splain away why Israel should be allowed to strong-arm its way onto yet another parcel of diminishing Palestinian / Muslim real estate?
Interesting. I'm not saying anything about Israel here. That's you. I'm asking why Jews shouldn't be allowed to pray at their holiest religious site. As far as I can tell, your answer is that religious Jews should be denied equal religious rights because of your opposition to Israeli actions.
Is that correct?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israeli government, that are driving this: inciting others to take the mount away from the Muslims.
shira
(30,109 posts)Is that correct?
That's 100% truth, isn't it?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israeli politicians and their crazies are attempting to take yet another thing that is Palestinian / Muslim...just as they have done in the West Bank and Gaza...to further their own ends.
Do you have any common decency?
How nany mosques has Israel already destroyed? Do you want to see the Al Asqa Mount mosque go as well?
shira
(30,109 posts)You believe Jews as well as Christians (non-Muslims) should be denied equal access to pray at a holy site due to your being in opposition to Israeli policies.
Israel is bad, so Jews (and Christians) suffer the consequences.
What an odious POV.
Opposing Jews for the "crime" of being Jewish due to your opposition of Israel is bigotry. Imagine denying Muslims access to pray at any holy site due to PA/Hamas policies. You'd never go there...
This is why you insist on calling the Temple Mount the Al-Aqsa Mount. Jews (and christians) should accept that only Muslims should pray there. They should "move on" from a religious POV. And that's why the area is not "deserving" of being called the Temple Mount anymore. Religious supersession demands it's only holy to Muslims, and that's why all non-Muslims should not pray there.
Talk about an old-school, centuries old hateful POV.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Mosques have been dedtroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to wotship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
Funny that you fail to acknowledge that.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
But please tell me, after you are finished claiming victim status, how many Mosques Israel has destroyed?
King_David
(14,851 posts)What exactly makes you a critique of Jewish practice and culture either way?
It's very interesting and illuminating that you are the arbiter between Jewish Religion and Muslim religion.
Especially on a bit of real estate that you alone singularly in this world call the
"Al Aqsa Mount".
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
But please tell me, after you are finished claiming victim status, how many Mosques Israel has destroyed?
King_David
(14,851 posts)All of a sudden your an Arbiter between the Jewish Faith and Muslim Faith and the question is / WTF is it YOUR businesses.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel is openly hostile to the Palestinians. It takes their land. It's illegal colonist settlers destroy Palestinian farms, orchards, groves and livelihoods, its IDF protects the illegal settlers while killing Palestinians.
Israel destroys Mosques, denies entry to Palestinians to Al Asqa Mount and then claims victim status.
"And if you will just give us a little more of what you possess we will be fair to you in return. Trust us."
This is not all of a sudden, dave, this is what the spirit of Israel has been doing to the Palestinians since Nakba day.
Israel needs to stop acting like a colonizer. So does it's apologists.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You seem to think you can tell Jews what to believe or what not to believe.
This is absolutely none of your business.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Sorry, dave. This is the worlds issue. It is out business. You have no authority to tell others what they can say.
The failed democracy of Israel has become an apartheid state. It's politicians want to pass laws making second class citizens out of 24% of its population. It's crazies want to take the Al Asqa Mount.
...and you sit there attempting to have authority where you have none.
Perhaps you actually should make a trip to Israel. You deserve each other.
King_David
(14,851 posts)
Is it YOUR business?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But thank you. The Palestinians and Muslims are apparently beneath contempt; so much so that they don't even register with you.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Have hereby disqualified YOURSELF from this debate.
YOU are no longer eligible to debate IP .
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)YOU are no longer eligible to debate IP .
Stop it.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I don't see anyone beside you jumping in here.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Thanks for comedy and the kick.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Not that you seem to know the difference most of the time....
King_David
(14,851 posts)Don't be ridiculous.
But WTF is to tell Jews what they may or may not believe.
WTF is it someone else's business what Jews believe.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Just bear in mind, most religions frown on lying, and here you are, lying about what RDO is saying - also lying about google search results which... c'mon man that's just sad. That's like, "cheating at go-fish' sad.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And you think that's any of your business because....?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And like I said, seems you could use a hobby. Might I suggest Ganesha?
King_David
(14,851 posts) shira
(30,109 posts)Should Jews be banned from praying (quietly and respectfully) at the Temple Mount due to Israel's actions?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The site is a mosque and a Muslim shrine. The governing council that cares for the mosque and its grounds - the Waqf, based out of Amman - has decreed that prayer at the mosque and its grounds is restricted to Muslims.
The Waqf was asked. They said "no." The respectful thing to do then, is to shrug, go "okay" and keep up at the kotel. Maybe ask again later.
shira
(30,109 posts)You could state you disagree with the Waqf.
You can say you believe all people should have access to their holiest religious sites.
Is that too hard?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)This is how mosques - indeed, most religion's places - work, Shira. I know you claim to be an atheist, but that's no excuse for being ignorant of the basics of religious practice. Religious places very much tend to be exclusive to that religion.
It's a mosque, and the site of a Muslim shrine. Muslims get to decide who worships there, what manners and behavior are appropriate, et cetera. it doesn't really matter if you like it or not, you're not actually entitled to make demands of how they manage the place, any more than they are entitled to make demands of the 27 synagogues in Jerusalem.
shira
(30,109 posts)The Mount is a tourist attraction with a big courtyard. What's the harm in facing what several religions consider the holiest site on earth?
You're defending religious supremacy.
Can you imagine the backlash if Israel were to ban all non-Jewish prayer at the Wall? Everyone up and down the board would go wild, condeming Jewish supremacist fascism.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)That's rich, given that your argument is that Jews are specially entitled to make demands of how Muslims run things at a mosque.
I'm defending the idea that the people of a given religion can decide how things are done at their individual holy sites. As this site is a Muslim site, administered by Muslims, they get to set the rules. And if those rules say "prayer here is exclusive to Muslims," well, that's how it is.
"Respectful prayer" then, is not praying at all. This isn't terribly difficult to grasp. Unless, I suppose, you're someoen who holds Muslims in utter contempt.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jews should have some right to pray at their Holiest site on the planet; the direction to which ALL Jews have prayed for thousands of years.
I think we both agree that given the political climate it's best not demand Jewish prayer at the site. Israel is not pushing the issue at all. The GOI is making it very clear they're not challenging the Waqf's ruling. I agree with the GOI on this, as do most people.
All I'm saying is that in a better world there should exist religious freedom for all people who deem that site Holy. You seem to be against the religious rights of Christians, Jews, & Bahai.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm saying that a religious community has the right to set the rules and standards observed at their own places of worship. And the site in question happens to be a mosque and Muslim shrine.
It is thus up to the Muslims who administer the site - currently the Waqf in Jordan - to decide what those rules are. They have decided that prayer there will only be for Muslims. You can dislike it if you like, but that's their right, and that's the way it is.
In a better world, people would come to the realization that yelling at imaginary sky-demons is a waste of time, no matter where you do it from, what direction you face, how many gerbils you incinerate, or how hard you whip yourself. That it's all tribal theater, devised primarily by an elite class of assholes to keep their own positions of power over the 'rabble." In a better world, rabbis and imams and priests alike would all be looking for honest jobs, temples, shrines, churches, and mosques would be schools of art and science, and their plazas full of discussion on the affairs of the international martian colonies.
we don't live in that better world, priests still have jobs, and they still lead groups of deluded people in their periodic yelpings to the sky, at this site or the other that is supposedly magic because of whatever fucking reasons some dude a thousand years ago came up with. In this flawed world, we can at least politely step around these wild-eyed masses, and leave them to their ceremonies, their hollering, their banging of heads upon rocks and boards and floors. Afford them the courtesy of having their spaces and determining what goes on in those spaces.
shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They can seek access all they like. Go for it. if that's what they're into, more power to them.
But sometimes, the answer is just going to be no. And the respectful thing to do - respect, you know that word? You kept trying to use it - is to accept that answer.
shira
(30,109 posts)Same racist arguments whites would make against blacks in the 60's.
To use your own words:
King_David
(14,851 posts)Tourists all around , kids playing soccer....
You should visit and then you will see , just be careful not to utter a prayer there in the outsise of the mosques in a Jewish way because that is banned.
shira
(30,109 posts)....equal rights to their most holy site on earth.
You're conflating Jews with Israel.
=========
It shouldn't matter what Israel does or doesn't do. Jews, like anyone else, should be allowed equal access to their holy sites - especially their HOLIEST of sites.
I understand some crazies want that, but that should be their choice so long as they're not being disrespectful to others.
=========
Can you ever admit you're wrong? Have you ever done so here?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
But please tell me, after you are finished claiming victim status, how many Mosques Israel has destroyed?
shira
(30,109 posts)Is that a typo by you?
Don't you mean Jews?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
Seriously, shira, this is like your denial of the deaths of two Palestinians on Nakba day...until the evidence can no longer be ignored.
How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
King_David
(14,851 posts)What they may or may not believe , then you my "friend " have disqualified yourself from this debate.
You RDW are now disqualified from this debate.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)me or others what we can post here WRT apartheid Israel.
Some debate style you have there.
BTW: Happy Hanuka.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And I'm not sure what "Hanuka" is.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
Now, back to the question that you're ducking with this pout rage…
How many Mosques have been dedtroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
But please tell me, after you are finished claiming victim status, how many Mosques Israel has destroyed?
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)I don't know the answer. More relevant though... How many ancient mosques have been destroyed by Israel? Aka: not new buildings that were merely being used as mosques? I think very few, mostly during wars where they were being used to store weapons.
Next... How many ancient synagogues have been destroyed by the Arabs?
Do you know the answer?
Next, if no one is trying to destroy al Aqua, why are you against Jews praying there?
And regardless of what Israel has done, why are you advocating punishing the Jews for Israelis actions?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)You continue to duck, dodge, and weave from pretty much any question asked of you.
Are you ashamed of your views on I/P?
Looks like that's why you don't choose to answer anything.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)on a subject without a sense of realization of doing so. No small feat.
You also don't know how to read apparently.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)with you when you walk right past the obvious.
I guess that is what it must be like to wear blinders.
Try reading what I posted instead of reacting with gibberish.
shira
(30,109 posts)...containing all the 'answers' you claim you've already provided.
Or fold.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Try re-reading what I wrote. Try understanding it before your bewilderment takes over.
shira
(30,109 posts)...asked of you.
You insist you answered somewhere in this thread.
I call BS.
Point me to this imaginary, mythical post or multiple posts.
Or fold.
No more deflections please.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Secondly, If you really stopped pretending that you don't know how to read, or follow a thread, I might actually take you seriously a little..well very little, but it would be a start.
Try 144 and 148 to start, The try actually reading them this time.
You can call that if you like, but the smell is definitely coming off your posts.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)at the Temple Mount
Jews forbidden from going to Temple Mount, says chief Sephardi rabbi
Israel's Sephardi chief rabbi said on Friday that it is forbidden for Jews to go to the Temple Mount.
“This is the place to call on the esteemed public to stop this incitement, from here a call is heard, forbidding any Jews from going up to the Temple Mount – From here a call is heard to stop this so that the blood of the People of Israel may stop being spilled,” Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef said.
Speaking at the funeral of Shalom Aharon Badani, the second casualty of Wednesday's terror attack in Jerusalem on Friday, Yosef blamed rabbis that allow Jews to go to the holy site for "adding fuel to the fire."
He used harsh terms to rebuke rabbis who call on Jews to go to the holy site, which contradicts the overwhelming majority of halakhic authorities that forbid entry to the Temple Mount compound to Jews because of its holiness. This is also the position of the Chief Rabbinate.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.625233
Leading rabbis rule Temple Mount is off-limits to Jews
Chief rabbis Yonah Metzger and Shlomo Moshe Amar, and a number of important rabbinical figures associated with the national religious world, have issued a halakhic ruling reiterating that it is forbidden for Jews to enter any part of the Temple Mount in our times. A similar halakhic ruling was issued a few months after the Six-Day War in 1967.
The current ruling was signed also by former chief rabbis Ovadia Yosef, Avraham Shapira, Eliahu Bakshi-Doron, the rabbi of the Western Wall, and heads of well-known national religious-oriented yeshivas.
It is seen as a blow to the members of the Temple Mount movements who have been trying for years to get a wider circle of rabbis to endorse the present-day entry of Jews to the holy site.
The ruling points out that Jews must avoid the entire site of the Temple Mount.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/leading-rabbis-rule-temple-mount-is-off-limits-to-jews-1.147456
shira
(30,109 posts)@brightoncm Beware of being used in political foodbank stunt by Brighton rightwing Zionists @SussexFriends. Pass word to other foodbanks
https://twitter.com/BrightonBDS/status/541289165682671616
@huxley06 @rachellehoward_ Watch out for food bank stunt by right-wing Brighton Zionists @SussexFriends. Pass word to other food banks
https://twitter.com/BrightonBDS/status/541290419875622912
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)BDS is actually an effective moment for change...regardless of what you try to cherry pick.
End Israeli apartheid against the Palestinian people. BDS.
Lugano
(52 posts)THey've been trying to BDS for what, 20-25 years, and all they achieve is NOTHING.
BDS actually harms Palestinians when you read about it.
P.S., there is *NO* apartheid in Israel, depsite what you think.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Perhaps somebody will believe you...maynr even yourself.
Lugano
(52 posts)so I think you're heavily biased..... and you can seriously look up the effectiveness of BDS - zero.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)the apartheid state they have created.
I guess some people that can't defend Israeli policies would see that as crap.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)conflating the two when that is not the case.
shira
(30,109 posts)...where you insist Jews shouldn't be allowed to pray at their holiest site on earth due to Israeli policy.
BrightonBDS is w/o question anti-semitic, pro-terror against Jews, etc. If you don't believe that's the case, then I ask you what kind of evidence do you require to believe it? Tell me, what would it take for you consider them beyond the pale?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)The tell me how many Synagogues has Israel built?
Finally tell me why you are apparently siding with Moshe Feiglin: Israel's own David Duke?
And as always; thanks for the kick.
shira
(30,109 posts)You keep trying to change the topic and goalposts once you realize your argument is shit.
2. What makes you the authority on whether Jews should have equal access and rights to their Holiest of sites?
3. Before Israel came into being in 1948 would you have been against Jews praying at the Temple Mount?
=============
I'm not siding with Moshe Feiglin. I believe all people should have equal rights so long as those rights don't take away from anyone else's. I think Feiglin's a nut but I wouldn't deny nuts from other religions equal access to their holy sites.
Obviously you don't believe in equal rights for Jews.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
But please tell me, after you are finished claiming victim status, how many Mosques Israel has destroyed?
shira
(30,109 posts)You would deny Jews worldwide the right to pray at their holiest site, whether or not they were the biggest supporters of BDS.
Your questions are irrelevant b/c you're conflating and discriminating against Jews, not "Israel" worshipping.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
How many Synagoges have been built in Israel?
Nobody is denying Israel the right to worship, but apparently by Israel destroying Mosques they are.
The crazies are attempting to "take" Al Aqa by force. They have made that clear. So the only ones looking to help this along are the poor Israeli victims that destroy Muslim places of worship while at the same time looking to push themselves, by force, onto a Mosque complex.
Seriously, shira, this is like your denial of the deaths of two Palestinians on Nakba day...until the evidence can no longer be ignored.
How many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel?
shira
(30,109 posts)....in the hopes u will finally answer me, although I won't hold my breath.
1. I don't know how many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel. If you know, please enlighten us.
2. Lots and lots of synagogues have been built in Israel. Everywhere.
Now why did u ask me these questions?
a) Is it because u think Israel deliberately targets Mosques for shits and giggles?
b) What do the # of synagogues have to do with anything? Does that mean Jews should go to their synagogues and stay away from their holiest site?
Please answer my questions from before since I answered you.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)"1. I don't know how many Mosques have been destroyed by Israel. If you know, please enlighten us.
2. Lots and lots of synagogues have been built in Israel. Everywhere.
Now why did u ask me these questions? "
Well, shira, when one professes ignorance of a thing that could enlighten them to the present situation, when the evidence is all around them, I truly have to shake my head sadly.
Not only has Israel destroyed scores of mosques since 1948, I'm not sure if anybody will ever know the exact amount, but they as you do know...or at least will hopefully admit also destroyed many Palestinian homes, farms, orchards, groves, and lives.
Israel has inserted itself into the heart of the West Bank under the ruse that the illegal settlements are there for purposes of negotiation, and that is painfully far from the truth.
So why do I ask these questions?
The answer is simple for those that have eyes. "One thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see."
Israel, along with its more violent and offensive members have done everything to destroy and marginalize the Palestinian presence.
They have destroyed many Palestinian homes, farms, orchards, groves, Mosques, and not in the least: lives.
Palestinians and Muslims have seen this perverse song and dance before WRT Israeli expansion. Now it's not enough that Israel has hemmed in the Palestinians on all sides. It is not enough that Israel continues to harass and destroy what is left to the Palestinians...to the point of death. Now the vaudevillian apartheid state actors wants to plant themselves, oh so harmlessly
, onto Al Asqa Mount...so they can pray.
Now why does a nation that has destroyed so many mosques, so many things Palestinian, and built so many synagogues...continues to do so... need another excuse to push aside yet again the Palestinian / Muslim religious sovereignty by force to gain access to Al Asqa? Even Mose Dayan knew that was futile and an unreasonable thing.
shira
(30,109 posts)Try answering this one:
Did u ask me that question b/c it's your opinion Israel just destroys Mosques for shits and giggles? Yes or No?
Israel has nothing to do with whether I or any other American or British Jew would choose to pray at the Holiest site for Jews in the world.
So another question since you brought it up:
Why can''t you state FTR that you believe Jews SHOULD at least have a right to silently pray there like any other people (Jews from anywhere on the globe, not just Israelis), but you realize for now the Palestinians won't like that so it's not such a good idea at this time and therefore you're against it happening?
I hope a question like that isn't too much for you, but maybe I'm wrong.
If you have other questions, I'll answer them. Can u do the same?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)facilities to do so.
Not only has Israel destroyed scores of mosques since 1948, I'm not sure if anybody will ever know the exact amount...
I don't profess ignorance of Israeli atrocities while suggesting that they harmlessly continue the policies.
You really are completely out of your depth and understand little WRT past/present Israeli atrocities against Palestinians / Muslims.
One could not wish for a better crop of poster boys for historical illiteracy: the tireless victims for colonialism and apartheid.
To answer your query, it appears that Israel destroys Muslim places of worship as a form of ethnic cleansing.
Perhaps you, at the very least, should attempt a little historical analysis of why Al Asqa Mount was left in its present state by Moshe Dayan.
Read up on what he said about it.
He seemingly had more sense than all the "Silent Prayer" victims.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...when they're not using old anti-semitic tropes or supporting terror acts against Jews.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)not be disappointed there, but BDS is the reality that Israel and its splainers are going to have to accept for their sad embrace of colonialism and apartheid.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)doesn't it?
shira
(30,109 posts)...people, groups, or nations who were on the wrong side of history. From the Romans to the Crusaders, Cossacks, Soviets, Nazis, Hamas, etc.
We see history repeating again today. Same hate from the past couple thousand years re-packaged as hysterically unhinged criticism of the Jewish state.
Sad but true...
BDS is so ridiculously racist and vile that you and your colleagues here have no defense whatsoever for it. Only denial of the obvious, deflections, ad-hominem...
Funny how you can't handle any legit criticism of BDS.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)If you want to conflate Israel with Jews then that is your misguided bent.
shira
(30,109 posts)...to pray at their holiest site on earth.
That's not criticism of Israel.
Fail.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)understanding what conflate means.
Lugano
(52 posts)but anti-Israel bias.
And BDS doesn't even work. Keep on believing that garbage, RDO.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to bravenak (Reply #42)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So there!
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)...
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....make it perfectly clear that:
a) Israel shouldn't have been formed in 1948
b) All the land from river to sea is Palestinian & Jews stole it.
c) The end of occupation and settlements (IOW 2 states) does not mean an end to BDS
d) Israel has no right to self-defense like any other country vs. terror attacks against its civilians
e) Terrorist acts are to be supported & defended against the dreaded Zionists, never harshly condemned
f) It's not about human rights. BDS'ers don't even give a shit about Palestinians unless Israel can be blamed somehow, some way.
Put all that together and it's clear BDS is against Israel's existence and wants harm done to Jews. It's never been about Palestinains and their rights. It's pure hatred and probably the most vulgar racist movement in the western world today that demands attention.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's desperate claims, by a desperate person, who has no other rationale or excuse for their hatred, violence, bigotry, and lack of ethics. You need an excuse for yourself, to justify why you continue to support and celebrate brutality against a crushed people, and so you try to insulate yourself in this way.
shira
(30,109 posts)...who also happened to be very racist against Jews and pro-terror against Jewish civilians. They existed before BDS and they are BDS today.
Now as we can see, all you have is ad-hominems. Your "desperate" opponents "celebrating brutality" nonsense. You simply cannot handle any legitimate criticism of a particularly vile movement you enthusiastically support.
If u think I'm wrong, I'll bring up some particularly heinous examples from BDS & we can see how u respond to them. If BDS is moral and decent, you should have no problem defending it.
You game?
Lugano
(52 posts)And Israel was *CREATED* by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, by delineating the borders of Israel. It's right there in the man's bible. Parsha of about a month ago discussed this.
"Hashem Yireh" was the mountain that oversees Jerusalem - proclaimed by Abraham after the "sacrifice" of his beloved son.
"Shalaim" was named after Shaim - one of Noah's sons that taught Torah with his son, Aiver.
Combined the name - it's Yireh-shalaim - Jerusalem. Proof that our forefathers has founded Israel
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Come back when you have something of substance.
shira
(30,109 posts)....definition of apartheid (like anyone disagreeing with you or pointing it out somewhere else).
You're comic gold here when you're not defending terror attacks against innocents as merely "fighting back".
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Pathetic, really.
You did this in another post recently, you were called out for it, and you're just repeating your nonsensical "because I say so" defense of Apartheid against non-Muslim worshippers at the Temple Mount.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)There is no Temple. There hasn't been one for 2 millennium. No Temple. No Temple Mount.
There is a mosque there. It has been there for some time. Al Asqa Mosque. Al Asqa Mosque = Al Asqa Mount.
To continually refer to something that isn't there would suggest that those who use that term have ulterior motives: perhaps even a claim of ownership with ideas of rebuilding the Temple.
Enter Moshe Feiglin.
Shria, when I read your posts I am reminded of Corinthians.
Perhaps someday you will be able to put away childish things and see the world through the lens of an adult.
shira
(30,109 posts)What's at the heart of the Dome of the Rock (not al-Aqsa) is the foundation stone and that's where the Holy of Holies once was. It's in that direction (not al-Aqsa) to which Jews pray.
The crazies want to blow up the Dome of the Rock and replace it with a Temple. Not al-Aqsa.
You embarass yourself when you keep insisting the site is in actuality the al-Aqsa Mount.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It's Al Asqa Mount. If you don't like it then put me on ignore.
King_David
(14,851 posts)It's your invention and nobody not even Muslims , Jews or Christians calls it that.
It's just silly.
But good luck maybe it will go viral in the Solomon islands or Micronesia.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Nice....nobody in the world calls it that except for you....
Billions call it the Temple Mount
or as Har haMoria (Hebrew: הַר הַמוריה and in Arabic as the Haram al-Sharif (Arabic: الحرم القدسي الشريف, al-haram al-qudsī ash-sharīf), the Noble Sanctuary, is one of the most important religious sites in the Old City of Jerusalem. It has been used as a religious site for thousands of years. At least four religious traditions are known to have made use of the Temple Mount: Judaism, Christianity, Roman religion, and Islam. The present site is dominated by three monumental structures from the early Umayyad period: the al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of the Chain. Herodian walls with additions dating back to the late Byzantine and early Islamic periods cut through the flanks of the Mount. It can be ascended via four gates, with guard posts of Israeli police in the vicinity of each.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
Sorry to break the news to you BUT your nomenclature is not catching on , and you are the sole person worldwide using such a phrase.
Ahh well....back to the drawing board ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Wishful thinking on your part?
King_David
(14,851 posts) R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)to you the obvious.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Is there a temple there or Al Asqa, shira. Yes or no.
No temple, not temple mount.
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)Really? You're actually so brainwashed as to have the audacity to declare what other religions have the right to believe or not believe?
What makes you the arbiter of what Judaism as a whole thinks? The arrogance is astounding.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You're simply declaring the whole thing racist all over. After previously comparing it to the nazis and Hamas, then lying and saying you didn't.
I'm sure you can find some "heinous examples." And as I've told you many times, there are, without a doubt, probably some repugnant people hashtagging #BDS, or whatever. It's inevitable with a decentralized individual-based movement.
I suppose you judged OWS by those rapes that hapopened in a few of hte camps, too. Leftists = rapists, no doubt?
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)such accusations as racist, terror and so on and so forth.
Perhaps you should be more concerned over Israeli practices of apartheid and colonialism.
shira
(30,109 posts)When individuals and organizations support or defend Hamas rockets, terror tunnels, Rasmieh Odeh, and the Har Nof butchers.....how do you view such people?
Should we enthusiastically support such individuals and organizations? Are they truth-tellers? Progressive human rights advocates?
The correct response would be "No".
I await your honest reply.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Just as the USA and Russia has had their blowback from regions that they meddle with so too is Israel experienceing that.
Instead of having a fit about every bogeyman in the closet perhaps you should look at the one created by Israel and play the part of an adult.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)who will vilify anybody and everybody that they can.
In fact, I believe that you have vilified the entire movement in order to attempt to delegitimize it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Am Yisrael Buy, a new app (available on Apple, Android and Windows Phone) designed to help users locate and buy Israeli products, is the brainchild of Rabbi Daniel Cohen, 49, the spiritual leader at Temple Sharey Tefilo-Israel in South Orange, New Jersey.
After learning this summer about apps being developed to advance the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, the rabbi said he “went looking for a pro-Israel app and couldn’t find one that was standing up to BDS.”
So Cohen, who sees BDS as a movement geared toward “isolating and destroying the Jewish state,” took it upon himself to create Am Yisrael Buy, which launched just before Rosh Hashanah. Some 2,500 users have downloaded it so far; it includes a list of Israeli products for purchase, as well as links to Israeli media outlets and Israeli organizations.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-israel-app-aims-to-counter-bds-counterparts/#ixzz3LczK9BBj
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)