Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
Thu Dec 11, 2014, 06:01 PM Dec 2014

'Isolation' and the elections

Perhaps the aspect of isolation most feared by Israelis is economic. Yet here there is simply no evidence for any isolation. Israel's trade has risen steadily with all its major partners, even those most critical of it, like Europe. Moreover, Netanyahu has opened new doors to opportunities in India and elsewhere in Asia. Just like his ideological tension with European leaders has not impeded trade, one should not credit his compatibility with the nationalist leadership of India for these new frontiers. Rather, business has a life of its own that -- except in the most extreme cases -- is separate from diplomacy....

...And of course a left-leaning government is hardly a guarantee against international pressure. For example, the Goldstone commission report on the Gaza War -- the modern blueprint for delegitimizing Israel -- was concocted during Tzipi Livni's Foreign Ministry. The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, which is thus far a nuisance at best, will not slow its activities based on who holds the prime ministry. The International Court of Justice's opinion on the security fence -- the high point of anti-Israeli legal campaigns -- was released a month after the government approved the Gaza disengagement. Indeed, Livni herself has been a minister for 10 of the past 14 years and thus surely deserves some credit for Israel's diplomatic situation. And she has led the peace negotiations under Netanyahu. Of course, having Livni and the centrist Yair Lapid in the government has not slowed the pace of anti-Israeli activity; giving them different roles will not either....

...European hostility to Israel, and sympathy for the Palestinians, has an internal logic and energy of its own. It will proceed at it is own face, largely indifferent to the internal details of Israeli political life. For example, even the great coup of the Left, the withdrawal from Gaza, has not changed the European view that Gaza remains occupied, and that Hamas should be a diplomatic partner.

The Europeans have come to believe that Israel has stolen land that "belonged" to Palestinians, that Jews have no rights in these lands, and thus the thieves must return them independent of any guarantees of security, worship, or an end to the conflict. These are not conditions that any Israeli government can or will accept, and thus the diplomatic unpleasantness will continue. Indeed, even if Israel were to withdraw from territories, it would only be the beginning of another unpleasantness, with Israeli retaliation for attacks across the long new border becoming then new pretext for boycott movements and the like.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=10889
20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
'Isolation' and the elections (Original Post) shira Dec 2014 OP
although sabbat hunter Dec 2014 #1
Oh come on .... Israeli Dec 2014 #2
All the Left supported Gaza withdrawal.... shira Dec 2014 #3
The State of Israel versus the "State of the Settlers"....... Israeli Dec 2014 #5
What a great resource human linking and clipping machine King_David Dec 2014 #12
Gee thanks ... Israeli Dec 2014 #15
The Left supported disengagement from Gaza. Likud and the right did not... shira Dec 2014 #18
Sharon was a Leftist? well we learns us sumpin new everyday azurnoir Dec 2014 #19
The Left and Center-Left parties (Labor, Shinui*, Yachad, Am Echad*) voted in favor oberliner Dec 2014 #20
What were there Economic and Social policies King_David Dec 2014 #7
What ??? !!! Israeli Dec 2014 #9
These people you call right wing King_David Dec 2014 #11
Livni is not Right wing KD ... Israeli Dec 2014 #13
Never mind King_David Dec 2014 #14
No point at all KD ... Israeli Dec 2014 #16
. King_David Dec 2014 #17
Wouldn't matter if Livni was PM instead of Bibi... shira Dec 2014 #4
Who has turned the world against us sabbat hunter ?.... Israeli Dec 2014 #6
Lunatics on social media, that's who. grossproffit Dec 2014 #8
Thats a new one for me ... Israeli Dec 2014 #10

Israeli

(4,148 posts)
2. Oh come on ....
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 04:57 AM
Dec 2014

...how can you take any of that seriously .....??

For example, even the great coup of the Left, the withdrawal from Gaza, ...

Arik Sharon was a Leftist ??!!!!....

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
3. All the Left supported Gaza withdrawal....
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 05:54 AM
Dec 2014

The right, not so much.

Guess you don't remember so well even though it was only 9 years ago.

Israeli

(4,148 posts)
5. The State of Israel versus the "State of the Settlers".......
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 07:48 AM
Dec 2014

Blue versus orange ......

The War of the Colors in Israel

by URI AVNERY

A visitor to Israel at this time may get the impression that the country is in the throes of a contest between two football teams: orange and blue.

Thousands of cars are already flying ribbons with these colors, mostly from the antennas. This is very striking on the roads: those who fly different colors are treating each other with hostility, also expressed by their driving, while those who fly the same color exude a civility that is quite foreign to Israeli highways.

The use of colors to symbolize the two sides resembles the War of the Roses 450 years ago.

Then, the red rose was the emblem of the house of Lancaster in their struggle for the English throne, while the white rose signified their adversaries, the house of York. The war went on for 32 years and ended with the victory of the red flower.

In our time, color wars belong in the sports stadium, where blood is only rarely spilled.

But the Israeli war between the orange and the blue is a very serious affair.

On the face of it, this is a struggle about the withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and the evacuation of the few settlements there. But in reality, this struggle has assumed a much deeper significance. It concerns the very character and future of Israel.

Those who fly the orange ribbon know this perfectly well. They swear to "paint the country orange" and aim to change its way of life from the bottom up. As they see it, the laws of the Knesset are invalid if they conflict with religious law (the Halakha), as interpreted by the "nationalist Zionist" rabbis, a nationalist-messianic faction with a fascist fringe. Government decisions are null and void if they are opposed to the will of God. And God, as is well known, speaks through the mouths of the settlers’ leaders. (One can only say: God help God, if He needs spokesmen like these!)

Those who fly the blue know – some clearly, some vaguely – that they are struggling for a different vision of Israel. Some have a thought-out conception of a democratic, liberal and secular Israel, living at peace with the Arab world. Others have a more general vision of a sane and decent Israel, where the majority decides through the Knesset. Either way, the difference between blue and orange is striking and unmistakable.

Today, 37 days before the planned evacuation, two phenomena are manifest:

First, the vast majority of cars on the roads are not flying any ribbon at all.

Secondly, among those which do fly ribbons, the orange outnumber the blue 2 to 1.

Public opinion polls show that the real ratio is the reverse: two thirds support the Gaza withdrawal. This percentage rose last week, after the appearance on television of the attempted lynching of a wounded Arab boy by Gush Katif settlers. But even before that, there was a solid majority for the withdrawal.

If so, why is there, at this moment, no solid majority of blue ribbons in the streets?

The first reason is unsurprising: a fanatical minority with a high, emotional motivation has an advantage over a "silent majority" that always tends to be passive and weak-willed.

The settlers and their allies also have a distinct logistic advantage. They live in their own communities, and it is therefore easy for them to mobilize thousands of children and youngsters, who disperse throughout the country and attach their ribbons to the cars. The religious Jews, almost all of whom support the settlers, are concentrated in their Yeshivot (seminaries) and separate townships, where they can easily be called to action.

But these advantages would not have been so manifest, were it not for the weaknesses of their opponents.

Many citizens are simply anxious. They are afraid that if they fly the blue ribbon, their precious cars will be vandalized by right-wing hooligans. Here and there cars flying blue ribbons have indeed been damaged. Fear is a typical symptom of a society menaced by a fascist minority: storm-troopers use violence deliberately in order to paralyze the law-abiding majority, which shrinks back and cannot respond in kind. A few well-publicized instances suffice to sow fear.

Another reason springs from the character of the democratic public. Most people just want to be left alone in peace, they do not like to be conspicuous and to demonstrate their convictions in public. They are not concentrated in specific neighborhoods, which would have lent them a sense of security and power. Many feel, therefore, that they are isolated in their thoughts and feelings. And not a few are reluctant to make even the slightest effort to obtain a blue ribbon.

Another phenomenon: while almost all the "orange" fly their ribbons proudly from the antennas on top of their cars, many of the "blues" hang their ribbons lower, from the side mirror or the handle of a door, where they are less conspicuous.

But the struggle of the ribbons is not a game. At this time, it is extremely important, and the settlers know this well.

It is important because the number of orange ribbons creates the impression that the settlers rule the streets, that they are the real majority in Israel, even if the polls say the opposite. This raises their morale in their fight against the Israeli democracy and lowers the morale of the democratic public.

This influences – consciously or unconsciously – the politicians and media people, who, in their turn, mold public opinion. The Israeli media, almost without exception, have already become a mouthpiece for the settlers. Even a liberal paper like Haaretz, which is (erroneously) considered "left-wing", carries news pages (as distinct from the editorial pages) which often look as if they had been lifted straight from one of the settlers’ organs.

If the blue ribbon overcomes the orange, it will have a big impact on the entire political system. It will lend new courage to the parties that support the withdrawal and to the security forces that will have to enforce it. The opposite situation would be fraught with danger to the future of the state.

Also, the blue (or blue-white) ribbon is a unifying symbol. Forces of different shades are working together in this campaign, from those who support Ariel Sharon and withdrawal from the Gaza Strip only ("Gaza – First and Only&quot to those who want to turn this withdrawal into an instrument for the achievement of a general peace ("Gaza – First But Not Last&quot . To belong to this camp is respectable, for it is a camp with a liberal and peace-loving culture, a camp that believes in equality between the citizens of both genders and of all ethnic and national backgrounds. In short: the opposite of what the settlers believe in.


The victory of the blue ribbon will restore to many people a sense of power. To those who have sunk into despair, who have come to believe that they are few and weak and that "everything is lost", the blue ribbon will give a sense of belonging to a large and influential community.

The struggle is having yet another interesting effect. In recent years, the right-wing has succeeded in securing a near monopoly over the display of the Israeli flag. A part of the left has distanced itself from the blue-and-white banner, because for them it symbolizes the occupation and the settlements. In demonstrations against the occupation, the Israeli flag is seen only on the Gush Shalom signs, which combine the flags of Israel and Palestine. (Palestinians, too, carry these signs willingly.)

Since the settlers have adopted the orange color (swiped from the Ukrainian uprising), their opponents quite naturally adopted the blue color, which is taken from the flag of Israel.


The importance of this is more than symbolic. More and more people are becoming convinced that the current struggle is essentially one between the State of Israel and the "State of the Settlers" – a democratic state on the one side, a nationalist-messianic state on the other. That is an important conception, which may have far-reaching implications for the future. It is the start of the real separation – that between the State of Israel and the settlers.

For that, too, it is important that the blue now win the War of the Colors.


Source : http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/07/09/the-war-of-the-colors-in-israel/

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
18. The Left supported disengagement from Gaza. Likud and the right did not...
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 03:55 PM
Dec 2014

And it has not made one bit of difference to the "enlightened" masses.

Just as Barak (with Meretz) and the Israeli Cabinet agreeing to the Clinton Parameters didn't make a difference.

Israel can pull out of the W.Bank and that wouldn't matter either...

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
20. The Left and Center-Left parties (Labor, Shinui*, Yachad, Am Echad*) voted in favor
Sat Dec 13, 2014, 05:47 PM
Dec 2014

The Government Center-Right Likud Party split its vote, 23 for and 17 against;
The Left and Center-Left parties (Labor, Shinui*, Yachad, Am Echad*) voted in favor;
The Right and Center-Right parties (Shas, National Union*, National Religious, and United Torah Judaism) voted against.

F. Compensation-Evacuation Law

The Law eventually passed on 25th October 2004, with the support of the Labor Party from the benches of the Opposition.

The Knesset Vote – How & Why

Party For Against Abstentions Absent Analysis Points
Likud 23 17 Which Ministers opposed it? (note 1) (note 2)
Labor 19
Shinui 14 *1 Which MK was absent? (note 3)
Shas 11 Why did Shas oppose it? Positions
Yachad 6
Mafdal-NRP 6
National Union *1 6 Who supported it in the split vote? (note 4)
U. Torah Judaism 5 Why did the UTJ oppose it? Positions
Am Echad 2 *1 Who opposed it in the split vote? (note 5)
U. Arab List 2 Why did the UAL support it? Positions
Hadash 3 Why did Hadash abstain? Positions
Balad 3 Why did Balad abstain? Positions
Total 67 45 7 1

The Government Center-Right Likud Party split its vote, 23 for and 17 against;

The Left and Center-Left parties (Labor, Shinui*, Yachad, Am Echad*) voted in favor;

The Right and Center-Right parties (Shas, National Union*, National Religious, and United Torah Judaism) voted against.


http://jafi.org/JewishAgency/English/Jewish+Education/Compelling+Content/Eye+on+Israel/Current+Issues/Peace+and+Conflict/Disengagement/5.+History+of+the+Disengagement+Plan.htm

King_David

(14,851 posts)
11. These people you call right wing
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 10:05 AM
Dec 2014

What are their economic and social policies and views on Gay rights ... I want to see what makes Livni right wing.


(And your reply to my post was downright RUDE. Try keep it civil , this is a community board)

Israeli

(4,148 posts)
13. Livni is not Right wing KD ...
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:33 AM
Dec 2014

...even tho her roots and education was Likud .......she is a Centralist .

Neither here nor there .... but a better choice than Bibi and Naftali Bennett.

" What are their economic and social policies and views on Gay rights ... I want to see what makes Livni right wing. "

good question .....who do you think will represent your views more ?.....Meretz or Livni ?








King_David

(14,851 posts)
14. Never mind
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 11:43 AM
Dec 2014

You think I won't make sense so no need reply.

As you said:


Whose KD ? .....you are not making much sense ...there again you rarely do .


No point replying if that's what you think.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
4. Wouldn't matter if Livni was PM instead of Bibi...
Fri Dec 12, 2014, 05:56 AM
Dec 2014

The world turned on Israel as the Camp David / Taba talks were concluding

Israel was governed under a Labor/Meretz coalition at the time and had just gotten the Israeli cabinet to agree to the Clinton Parameters that would've given the Palestinians practically everything they were asking for.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»'Isolation' and the elect...