I have seen so much transphobia on DU today

[enlightenment]

that I want to just sit down and cry - or hit something. Accusations of "grandstanding" - suggestions that it's a ploy for a lighter sentence - unshakeable convictions that there's no such thing as transgender - that anyone who claims it is mentally ill . . . and on and on.

I could spend the afternoon browsing Stormfront and be less nauseated by what I'm reading.

So glad my son doesn't live in this country anymore.

[hrmjustin]

1. Here in Mirt today we got a front row seat to some of the garbage said today.

[enlightenment]

3. Doesn't seem to have helped much.

But I appreciate what you're saying.

[hrmjustin]

4. Unfortunately they were beyond our reach.

[enlightenment]

6. I know.

It's just tiring - and I'm only a mom. I can't imagine how it must feel to be a DUer and realize that many people think you're mentally ill simply because of who you are.

Definitely not progressive, but ugliness doesn't know political boundaries.

[hrmjustin]

8. I tell you this one really made me infuriated.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023515014

[enlightenment]

10. That is horrible.

Suggesting someone should be dead? I have no words . . .

[CBGLuthier]

11. wow, that particular post

should have gotten the poster banned. Ugly shit from ugly people. Including the two bigots who voted to leave it.

[hrmjustin]

17. The alert was sent to the admins.

[William769]

13. I am by no means done with that one.

No matter what it costs me.

[hrmjustin]

18. You should do a post in ATA to shame the person.

[William769]

20. I don't get answered in ATA when I shame someone.

And yes I will be the first to admit I am not nice when I say something that is so egregious.

[hrmjustin]

22. I always saw you as effective. You get things done.

[William769]

23. You have only seen my nice side.

The other side isn't pretty at all.

[dbackjon]

65. Join the club!!

Skinner doesn't respond to my ATA or emails!

[Zorra]

91. Has been blocked from our group.

[Starry Messenger]

16. Wow. What in actual fuck?

[hrmjustin]

19. My jaw dropped when I saw that.

[rhett o rick]

27. That is horrible. I hope the admins take action. nm

[hrmjustin]

28. I alerted through Mirt.

[rhett o rick]

30. Thanks. I think it's appropriate in this case. nm

[hrmjustin]

31. Look at the one I just posted at the bottom of the thread.

[rhett o rick]

32. I saw that one and not sure I agree with you. I am not sure the poster

condones any of the activity but is only discussing what happens. I may need to read again.

[hrmjustin]

33. Well the admins got it and we shall see.

[dbackjon]

66. And two people voted to leave it alone

WTF

[awoke_in_2003]

45. How so? nt

[hrmjustin]

54. If they are above 100 posts we are do not deal with them.

We can ban someone up to one hour if a person has a hidden post and the TOS button was hit but the admins take care of them if they feel the need to.

[awoke_in_2003]

55. I see...

I remember as a mod when we had a longtime member we would clear the nukings with admins first.

[hrmjustin]

56. This term we did nuke an 8 year member but he threatened another member and had 4 jury

hides.

We only do these things is someone goes off the rails and the admins are not around.

[uppityperson]

63. Thank MIRT for me and I expect Admin to take some out also. Checking in DU and after reading a tiny

bit, closed it down to come in this group to express what this thread is about. I do not understand people a lot of the time. Thanks to you, to MIRT and to others who are alerting and trying to clear out this crap. I am still on vacation for another week, will do what I can when I return.

[hrmjustin]

82. Good to see you and welcome back.

[MNBrewer]

2. I alerted on this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=573161

got a 5:1 vote to leave it.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Hypersensitivity.

[enlightenment]

5. Heartbreaking.

It's nice to find out how some really feel though - it's like finding the worm in the apple before you bite into it.

[Vanje]

21. And now

You're "hypersensitive".

Oh man

[JoeyT]

7. I've been staying out of those threads.

After the first comment I saw that pretty much amounted to "I hope MY tax dollars aren't going to be spent on this deviant", I knew I was going to end up with a whole lot of hidden posts if I didn't.

At least with Stormfront you know they're too bigoted and stupid to know any better. People on a Democratic/liberal message board should be better than that.

[enlightenment]

9. Probably the smartest thing you could do.

I've decided to do the same, because I simply don't have the ability to read any more of it - wish I had decided it earlier.

It is always disappointing to realize that bigotry doesn't know boundaries; I want to believe that people who espouse progressive principles also believe and live by them, but that is often not the case.

[Arkansas Granny]

12. Wow. I didn't expect to see remarks like that here.

It seems that the RWNJ's don't have a lock on insensitivity and misinformation.

[Hydra]

14. I luckily missed this on DU

But IRL my boss and coworker were making prison rape jokes about it.

Sometimes I have moments when I agree with the 1%- where's the human nobility? What's the point of trying to save them.

[JackBeck]

15. You're not alone.

I sat in front of my screen today completely mortified. The sad thing about all of this is that I don't think the posters who are being the loudest will ever change their opinion, regardless of how much education we try to do.

The only comfort I feel is knowing that I'm able to effectively create change in real life, rather than worrying about anonymous internet screen names on some random message board..

[enlightenment]

49. You're right, of course.

What matters is what happens in the Real world. I just worry because these anonymous internet screen names are attached to real people who live in the real world. I know most of them are probably unwilling to spew their hatred there, that's the only comfort I can take from it.

[bunnies]

24. Today has been especially bad.

Ive had to walk away a few times. At least *some* of the trolls are getting taken out. The one in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023513555 was a particular kind of shitbag. Im fucking sick of it.

[William769]

25. There are many that feel the way you do.

And the one's who can actually deal with it seem to be MIA.

[bunnies]

26. There should be a zero tolerance policy for that kind of thing.

I dont give a damn how long someones been here. DU is a "progressive" site and we need to stand with the LGBT community without fail, imho. Having been in a relationship with someone of my same sex, I take all these slaps in the face personally. Sad thing is... EVERY DUer should take such insults personally. I cant understand the mindset behind being hateful towards people because of who they ARE. Its no different than racism really. I guess some just refuse to "get" it.

[enlightenment]

46. Exactly.

Thank you for articulating that so well.

[hrmjustin]

34. I just responded in the thread. I want to know what the OP has issues with.

[bunnies]

36. Doubt you'll get an answer.

None of us have so far. Gotta love hit and run bigotry.

[hrmjustin]

37. I wonder if anyone alerted.

[bunnies]

40. I thought about it...

but wanted to see how many would set the OP straight. Not as many as I'd hoped, unfortunately.

edit: sp

[hrmjustin]

41. I doubt a jury will remove anyway.

[bunnies]

42. That too.

Sadly.

[Emit]

60. I alerted on that very thread and here is the response I received

At Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:50 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Chelsea Manning or Bradley Manning?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023513555

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

This is hurtful to the transgender community and their loved ones. Why even post this - we're a open-minded forum that emphasizes tolerance and acceptance and ignorant post like this serve to do the opposite.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:00 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with alerter.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: first I voted to hide, then I did not like the intolerant tone of the alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I understand the confusion to someone who may have not been in touch with this whole saga. I do not see it as insulting or intolerant
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: The alerter expresses my sentiments exactly.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alerter needs to grow up. Poster admitted they are having a hard time. They didn't say shit about about being hateful or intolerant. Alerter is a fucking asshole for wasting peoples time.

Thank you.

This day has been a very sad day for me at DU - very disheartening.

[Behind the Aegis]

61. Alert on the results, and mention juror #6.

[Emit]

62. Wow, I didn't know I had that option. Thanks for the suggestion.

I haven't been posting on DU lately, and I'm not familiar with this new jury system.

Yeah, that was a particularly yucky response from the last juror. Saddens me to see this on DU, and to be the recipient of such vile remark.

[Vanje]

92. Juror # 6

a real peach, That one.

[hrmjustin]

29. Here is another.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=572723

[bunnies]

38. oh. my. gawd.

[MNBrewer]

43. I was on that jury

I voted to hide. Disgusting.....

[hrmjustin]

44. Agreed!

[ZombieHorde]

35. I find this transphobia here on DU disturbing.

Like you said, on Stormfront, it would be expected, but on DU, it's just disturbing.

[enlightenment]

47. Yes.

And depressing. I know I let it get to me too much - that's the protective mom thing - but damn, to see this crap on DU?

[n2doc]

39. Seems like some people seem to think 'standing up' for Obama means denigrating his opponents

Even though Obama himself would not support these sorts of attacks and would condemn them, given his support now of LGBT rights. This has brought out a very ugly side of DU.

[enlightenment]

48. I agree.

The polarization has become so extreme that I don't think there are any barriers for a few of the most avid on DU. I think they would say anything - about anyone - in their zeal to "protect" the President from his perceived detractors.

I've never been stricken with hero worship of any kind - and I'm glad. It's obviously a terrible affliction that saps common sense - and humanity - right out of people.

[Bluenorthwest]

94. The 'support the President' shit is a cover, he's an excuse for petty acting out and extreme

personalized attacks on others. The come here to attack other Democrats who voted for Obama because they support him? I'm not that stupid. He's their cover, they do not emulate his style or honor his methods because they do not actually support him, they are here to say shitty things 'in Obama's name' and to attempt divisions among Democrats. That's what I think. How in the world would any rational Democrat decide that they were somehow the 'supporters' while others are not? Do they get extra votes? The hubris and hyperbole indicate mendacity that runs to the foundations in these posters.

[n2doc]

50. ...

[haikugal]

89. Beautiful!! Thanks for this.

I can't help but feel that our community is being trolled.

[bunnies]

51. Heres another for the collection.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023517069

[DURHAM D]

52. Add this OP to the list -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023517069

I served on a Jury and the vote was 5 - 1 to Leave it.

[Alameda]

53. It's sad Manning has to choose to be anything other that what is already.

People need to get over the fact that there are indeterminate genders.

Leave them alone to be what they are. Particularly in light of the fact that incidences of intersexuality are increasing with our hormone disrupters and other scientific advances. In some traditional "primitive" societies these people are "two spirits" or otherwise named.

There are even languages that don't have gender determinations like he or she.

[theHandpuppet]

57. Wow -- away from DU for most of the day

Just got back on this evening and couldn't believe what I was reading. The whole place has been trashed with hateful posts. Well, I guess that proves what we always knew, anyway. DU has a healthy population of bigots who were just waiting for an opportunity. Damn.

[madrchsod]

58. been sick all day, just logged, and it`s a good thing i`m better now...

some of the responses certainly were ignorant and phobic. sometimes i really wonder about people.

[Ms. Toad]

59. And another - left 1-5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3516431

One juror called it flame-bait.

The others just said it was opinion; argue in thread, etc.

• "T. Gender" - WTF???
  
• Irrelevant to the thread
  
• Assinine equating of the money needed to feed hungry children in elementary school with the cost of (one specific kind of) medical care for people in prison (when all other necessary care is covered)
  
• This member is fixated on this - see the earlier thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023517069
  

[freshwest]

93. See what I miss by having people on Ignore. A lot of mean-spirited posters don't show on my radar.

Fixated is right. It's none of his business. That's for doctors and Manning.

Other posters there say the military won't give hormone therapy nor different housing.

If true, that is grounds for release, or so I've read on other threads.

My Ignore list prevents me seeing hate, as I put mean-spirited, hateful posters on Ignore fast.

I'd remove such posters from my list to learn what is going on, but the fact is, I can't stand to read the hate anymore.

It's why I came to DU in the first place, it was making me sick. I'll keep coming to this group to check the waters.

Thanks for giving an example as DU doesn't need this. Think how many people now read this on DU and think that's what Democrats are about.

IDK any commited party members like that in IRL.

That was just awful.

[Tien1985]

64. I've been away for a few days

Maybe I should stay away for a while. I'm already fighting the urge to go get a number of hidden posts from what I've seen here

[Ms. Toad]

67. Finally...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3519395

Although juror #3 & 5, ugh.

Deliberately using male pronouns for an individual who has clearly expressed her preference for female pronouns is disrespectful to that person, and more importantly - hurtful to the trans* individuals who are members of DU and those who love them.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:17 AM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Poster needs to learn a few things.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: As long as Bradley Manning has the same male equipment he was born with, no doubt he will be be referred to as "he" by just about everyone, and it doesn't matter if he calls himself Chelsea, Doris, or Sheena: Queen of the Jungle.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Nothing hideable here. If I express my preference to be called "Doctor" or "Excellency" or "Master" is everyone here obligated to do so or be labeled a bigot? get real.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: A tough call but, in the larger context of the thread, using "he" instead of "she" can be easily taken as having been a deliberate choice and, as I've recently learned, that goes against the spirit of the TOS here. It also can easily be taken as a dig. No offense to all concerned but reasonable discussion is tough given some of the rhetoric from opposing points of view in threads like these. In hopes of getting the idea across that we ALL need to be extra civil in threads like these I say, "Hide it".

[enlightenment]

69. I'm glad it was hidden

but the comments from #3 and #5 are absolutely vile.

[Ms. Toad]

70. I alerted on the jury notice

I hope the admins will take a look at juror explanations like this and clean house. But I'm not holding my breath.

When I draw attention to things this (repeatedly) the response I get is "see, the jury worked." Even when I provide a long list of when it didn't work (I collected about 30 unhidden mAnn Coulter posts and linked them to the "see, the jury worked" response in ATA, without any acknowledgement that there was a problem. I hope yesterday and today provide a wake-up call.

[Ms. Toad]

71. And the next one I lost.

3-3 (paraphrasing - until his body changes he's still a man and he knows it; that's why he wants surgery)

At least the jury comments weren't vile.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

85. Looks like that poster's been tombstoned, too.

About time.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

68. I was just on a jury for a particularly bad comment.

From someone who's comments have been along those lines in the past.

I'll let you know what the jury results are, but in truth, I'm not thinking the comment will be hidden.

These new "community standards" on DU rather suck, honestly.


On edit: Oh look. I was right.

At Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:40 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I am respectful of Manning by calling her Chelsea
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3519962

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Transgender bashing.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:50 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I disagree with the OP too but they haven't said anything in this post that is bashing of Trans gender's. Debate them on it.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agreed. This poster's been quite homophobic and transphobic in the past. This is just another example of it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Its not "plumbing" that defines gender, its the person's choice. Your opinion on what gender the person is is irrelevant, they are what they say they are.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's such a complicated issue, it should be discussed and poster educated by more knowledgeable DUers instead of hiding the post. I myself have learned a lot about Transgender issues just by reading replies to other ignorant posters.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[MadrasT]

72. What the actual fuck?

How in the world is that not a 6-0 hide?



I have to step away from DU... I don't think I can take much more of this.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

74. Because honestly, leaving things up to the "Community" will, most times, result in things like this.

This is the New DU™.

[theHandpuppet]

75. The jury system is simply not working

And as long as that system is deeply flawed, nothing is going to change for the better.

[backscatter712]

76. I was the one that alerted on that one.

I did check the TOS box, so hopefully there will be some pizza coming.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

77. Thanks for checking the TOS box.

I don't think pizza will be on the menu, though...(maybe I'm just too cynical)

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

83. Looks like no pizza for that one.

Also looks like "engaging in dialog" (something a TON of jurors LOVE to say) isn't working.

[Ms. Toad]

86. That one needs to go.

I've been alerting on his posts all day - and explaining until I'm blue in the face that body parts don't equal gender.

Mostly he's been skating.

Probably about time to gather today's comments in one place and send directly to the admins.

(ETA - done. The list of ~10 offensive posts today are in ATA awaiting admin response. Not holding my breath.)

[MadrasT]

73. And it keeps getting worse.

It is making me physically ill.

[Call Me Wesley]

78. You actually never hear me swear, but this is unfucking-believable.

Why some of those people are not instantly banned truly escapes me. Forget DU, welcome to RL (Republican Lite.)

At least we now know the true colors of some. Unfucking-believable.

[backscatter712]

79. Here's another one.

And I'm now alerting on jury results. Am I the only one who's no longer buying the "Leave it alone so we can educate people!" line of bullshit?

There should be absolutely zero excuses for voting to leave such blatant bigotry.

At Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:09 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

LGB = Sexual Preference, T = Psychological Delusion
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3520526

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

More transphobia. How much of this shit do we have to tolerate?

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:17 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Of course it's ignorance. Of course it's transphobia. Of course it's painful to see that kind of ignorance and fear on DU. But it's better to hand this ignorant . . . . person his head on a platter with an explanation and a lesson than to just boot his sorry ass out of here. I just had to explain this very same issue to one of my dearest and best and longest friends on DU. You don't teach someone by locking them out of the classroom.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Clearly the poster is not informed on transsexual issues, but his display of ignorance here does not warrant censorship.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Transphobic to the max.

[backscatter712]

81. On the bright side, this troll's been whacked!

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

84. Notice how many jurors say to "educate them"?

But the problem is...said alerted people are not listening.

Nor do they care to listen or learn anything.

[backscatter712]

87. I see that excuse over and over and over and over.

Which is why I'm not buying it.

There's been plenty of fact-filled posts about LGBT issues. Anyone who's still "uneducated" is unwilling to be educated, and it's time for those types to get a boot in their asses.

Don't just alert on the posts. When the jury results come back with "I'm leaving it because they need to be educated", alert on the results too.

Posters that post bigoted shit need to be PPR'd, and jurors that vote to leave bigoted shit should also be PPR'd.

[NuclearDem]

80. It's so fucking aggravating and saddening

God, I just want to hit something.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

88. so true. nt

[LostOne4Ever]

90. All those posts are disgusting

Why is it so hard for people to remember that they are talking about other human beings?