LGBT
Related: About this forumDoes it seem to anyone else...
... that the current DU backlash against feminism and women-centered concerns...
...sounds a lot like the backlash against LGBT equality issues from a few years ago on DU?
I mean, a LOT like. The whole "not a priority," "you're overreacting," "stop whining," those mean ol' LGBT folk are "bullies" trying to "push an agenda"... all of it sounds awfully familiar.
What's next? Women are just out to make everyone on DU miserable because we "didn't get a pony?"
Remember that? I sure as hell do.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)monmouth3
(3,871 posts)Skittles
(153,150 posts)the world no longer centers around them and they know it
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)Glad to see you're still kicking asses as required.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)and I have been an ally to my GLBT brothers and sisters as long as I can remember
TygrBright
(20,759 posts)It was painful as hell.
I learned a lot.
In the long run, I think it's made DU a somewhat-friendlier place for LGBT people, but the process was messy, sometimes cruel, sometimes disconnected from reality. It seemed to go on and on, but the worst of it was over the course of about a year.
If this is the beginnning of a similar process for women and issues of sexism, buckle yer seatbelts, it's gonna be a rough ride.
But I think we will come out on the other side better, if scarred.
somberly,
Bright
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I saw some truly awful stuff.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)... but the fact that Pres. Obama himself eventually, finally, voiced unequivocal support for marriage equality.
I'm not sure there really can be such a clear-cut moment of clarity around women's issues, though the President has certainly been a staunch and solid advocate from the very start. Just doesn't seem like there'd be an opportunity for a specific, here's-how-it's-gonna-be kind of statement.
So I think, in terms of what's okay on DU and what's not, it might be a more drawn-out process. Still, I hope you're right that the site will come out on the other side better, scars or no.
TygrBright
(20,759 posts)...other than insofar as some mods were reassigned, and the site Admins updated and amended site policy to make it clearer. IIRC, for a while there site Admins actually set up a special back-end "helpline" for mods to ensure they could get a ruling on items they weren't sure about quickly. Sometimes stuff would sit in the mod forum quite a while awaiting a definite disposition. But even that was pretty minor in terms of effects.
I think the tide really turned after site Admins opened up a direct dialog with the community, and discussed it "en clair" so to speak, over a period of a couple of weeks. While they didn't directly resolve many of the specific issues, they did make it clear that site Admins were trying to learn and update policy to make it respectful of community concerns, and that they were willing to explain decisions that appeared arbitrary and insensitive, and discuss them with the community.
That made a difference, as did (as you mention) some of the political developments.
I think it's just an issue of "process." What the Friends call "threshing."
I hope it does work out well without losing too many good DUers in the process.
wistfully,
Bright
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)of members during the 08 primaries, and a lot of them were part of Rush's Operation Chaos. They came here to disrupt during that time, and many are still here. They know how to skate on that thin line- doing just enough to disrupt, but now enough to get tombstoned.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)... DU seems to be crawling with conservatives, more so than I remember from years ago. And it's incredibly obvious even from just a casual scan of the site.
Lots of the sort of ugly-minded thinking that, to me, marks the right wing: arrogant, uncaring, dismissive, incurious. Simmering with resentment, soaked in privilege.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)and I cannot point to specifics, but there does seem to be a core of people that are here for the purpose of stirring up shit and causing infighting. IMO, if you have problem with equal rights for all, you don't belong here. And if you say that straight white males are somehow being persecuted or put upon- well it is obvious what you are. For the record, I am a straight (but not narrow) white male.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Misogyny and homophobia are still present on DU. Look to the fact that we have 40 DUers hiding the LGBT Group as a whole currently.
Be that as it may though, we must always rise above--homophobia, misogyny, and/or any other form of anti-egalitarian message. We cannot be consumed by petty arguments and name calling. We must fight back with facts. We will never single handedly turn a bigot or a misogynist (et. al.) to our point of view. But so long as we keep the high ground, bring to them intelligent, swift, and brutally effective debate, we will win the hearts and minds of those on the fence. In this, we will alienate them from DU and their words will fall on deaf ears. And they will be banned. Rise above the pettiness. Rise above the hate. If you do this, we can overcome any obstacle.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)I mean, there are people here now "debating" whether white privilege exists who clearly don't understand the concept of privilege, to begin with. And yet who'd probably burst into flames if ever confronted with the notion of intersectionality.
Sigh.
In all seriousness, though, I do agree when you note that the discussion is not actually with the bigots themselves, but with those looking on who are undecided, open to new ideas. My fear is that this latter group is vanishingly small on DU today, while the voices of ignorance grow ever more strident. Ineducable and unbannable, it seems.
Still, I do respect your optimism, as well as your dedication. I'm running out of years to spend fighting, so it's good to know the fight still goes on, and in such capable hands.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)We have logic on our sides, all we need is to be seen as nothing like the people that the bigots paint us as. So when people see us as good, hardworking, family-loving, strong, LGBTers, those undecided look at the bigots and shake their heads. Then we win.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Why would anyone even go to the bother of blocking the LGBT group? I haven't blocked any group or even any threads or posters. I may disagree with what some folks have to say, vehemently at times, but what good is a forum for discourse and debate if you only listen to people who agree with you? If nothing else, even a contrary opinion can be good exercise for the brain.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Which is quite a few more than have been blocked from the group.
So, I guess there are those who have kindly taken them out of our lives before incident. Can't say I'm sad about that either lol.
I'm the same though, I have no one blocked or ignored any threads. Then again I know how to make my point without being mean or violating DU's policies, so it really doesn't affect me as much as some when people disagree with me.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)If you don't want to read what's being posted in a particular group forum, just don't go there. Seems simple enough. But why a hide?
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Personally I don't believe in it though. Especially if a people don't like you, I'd still like to know what they're saying about me. Lol.
we can do it
(12,184 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)And the language aimed at both was the same. I remember it well. I don't know if I have the stomach to be around DU when primary season rolls around again.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm a lesbian, and the thread got locked, but it is up front and center.
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)Apparently, this recently (and repeatedly) tombstoned "Pretzel Warrior" character was a leading loudmouth in both the anti-LGBT hostility back then, and the anti-woman hostility now.
Per the thread applauding the latest banning:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024689980#post27
Amazing how the trash can pile up sometimes.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)All the same language and triggers. If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times... misogyny and homophobia go hand in hand. Where you find one you're sure to find the other.