"The friendzone"

[libodem]

Why turning men down shouldn't make us a 'bitch' or a 'slut'. I like this new site I recently found.

http://feminspire.com/the-friendzone-isnt-real-why-im-not-a-bitch-for-turning-you-down/

[Gormy Cuss]

1. And then there's the related canard, that women don't want to date nice guys.

That's often tossed out when a woman turns down a man, as if that would magically change her mind. Um, no.

[YoungDemCA]

2. The "Women don't want to date nice guys" tripe is such bullshit.

And it feeds into the persecution complex of insecure, immature, resentful men who think that being "Nice (TM)" to women entitles them to having sex with women.

[Gormy Cuss]

3. +1 n/t

[Gravitycollapse]

4. "Women don't date nice guys" = The men you are interested in do not conform to social standards.

He wears strange clothing, possibly smokes and might enjoy industrial metal. Therefore he is an asshole and you are terrible for letting the white-bread goody boy fester in his loneliness.

[BainsBane]

8. I have noticed that some take the fact they have difficulty attracting the women they want

for sex as an indication they are "nice guys," when in reality they are anything but. If they were, they would be looking to get to know a woman as a person rather than just "getting laid."

[BainsBane]

5. That's an MRA meme

Are Brad Pitt and Clive Owen assholes for not asking me out? Of course not. The whole notion of holding the fact a woman isn't interested in a guy against her is ugly and just plain pathetic.

[libodem]

6. Still the same ol' same ol'

Madona/Whore complex. We are resented both ways. For withholding or for putting out. And guys should be 'nice' to us either way. Being treated decently, as a human 'bean' shouldn't depend on if we are attractive or datable.
Many women I know, who are even a bit chubby, say men look right through them like they don't exist.

I want equal treatment. That's all. I don't want to be labeled a bitch for saying, no. Or a slut for saying, yes. (Gad, that autocorrected to slit---- glad I caught it)

[redqueen]

7. Many women I know, who are even a bit chubby, say men look right through them like they don't exist.

When I read that, it reminded me of this... you may have seen it already, but just in case...

[libodem]

9. I heard an interview on NPR

Where he spoke of having some terrific insights and empathy after playing Tootsie. I'll watch this. Thank you much.

[libodem]

10. That really is excellent

It makes me puddle up. So touching. He really gets it.

[redqueen]

12. Yep. Actual empathy, it rocks.

He didn't just get it, he felt it. He looked at himself as a woman and realized he didn't measure up to his own standards. The wheels started spinning and the gears actually connected, and he really got it. Most are careful to ensure those gears don't move. It's far easier seeing women as decorative things and not actual people. Seeing women as people takes all the 'fun' out of objectifying us... and let's be real - men waste an awful lot of time (and money) on that kind of 'fun'.

[libodem]

16. So true

Big difference between intellectualizing and 'knowing' something vs realizing and feeling it. He felt it. And it is impossible not to go weak in the knees to see a man who really gets it. We are actually people underneath these boobs.

[BainsBane]

11. Do you know what?

I do not care if I exist to those men. I have no interest in dealing with them. I guess it's something that happens with age. I no longer have the patience for bullshit. There is no question there are societal problems at work here, but I am personally glad not to have to deal with people so vacant inside.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. The opposite happened to me once. I got labelled a slut for saying no...

He tried to rationalise me knocking him back coz I thought he was a bit of a wanker by creating some stupid story that I was slutting around with all these other guys blah blah. That moved him from bit of a wanker territory to fucking creepy wanker territory...

[Gormy Cuss]

14. Can't win sometimes.

While it seems like the opposite it's really just a different shade of the same thing: someone trying to control your sexual agency.

[BainsBane]

22. A lesbian

If you don't want to have sex with them, they often insult the woman with some offensive gay slur.

[Starry Messenger]

15. The other thing I hate about the "friendzone" tripe is that it says women have no value as friends

That we just use friendship as some kind of fake excuse for not having sex. That we are not capable of friendship, or that ours doesn't matter.

I've had very dear male friends over the years who would never pull this, so I know it is just a certain type of bro entitlement.

[MadrasT]

17. +1

Also, it's like the only reason they are ever nice to women is because they want sex as a repayment. (As if we are vending machines.)

[Starry Messenger]

20. That too.

I wonder if these same guys look at their guy friends the same way: "I was nice to you so now you owe me something?" I doubt it.

[redqueen]

19. Yes, it really is a betrayal.

And if you raise this issue in mixed company you will most likely hear from many people that it is simply natural that men view women as sex objects first and foremost, and that every man who is friends with a woman is of course doing the same.

I've always wondered if people saying this believed that all men simply are not interested in being friends with women they aren't sexually attracted to, or if such women were simply invisible to those who agree with this idea... that any woman who isn't sexually attractive somehow just doesn't register with them as deserving any kind of consideration in their minds.

[Starry Messenger]

21. Yuck.

I've been with my husband for ages, so I don't know how that's skewed the dynamic one way or another with other male friends in the duration. I would feel betrayed if any of them said that they were just waiting to swoop in if something happened to my partner and me.