"Overweight women tend to be VERY unsympathetic."

[rocktivity]

Last edited Wed Sep 5, 2018, 09:54 AM - Edit history (2)

So said a lawyer discussing which potential jurors should be dismissed from his 17-year old female client's murder trial. I heard it on a true crime show several hours ago, and it's still ringing in my ears.

Now, I'm not naive about this sort of thing. When I was working in advertising and got a jury duty notice, I was advised to make a point of mentioning that I was a copywriter. Why? "They don't like jurors who who are good at thinking creatively." And I know that if the defendant can afford it, some lawyers will hire "mock" juries and put their strategies through a dress rehearsal of sorts.

But it's disappointing, to say the least, to learn that overweight women harbor so much such self-hatred and jealousy that they'd send young, pretty, skinny, innocent women to jail as revenge. I suppose I should therefore feel comforted that there are lawyers vigilant enough to keep them off juries. But it comes across as a demeaning, archaic, VERY sexist stereotype all the same.

Maybe it was the lawyer's emphasis on "VERY" that got to me the most.


rocktivity

[REP]

1. Hello, fellow ID watcher

The trial was in 2002 - maybe things have changed? But yes, it struck me, too. Also the juror who said something like, 'she was acting friendly; he wouldn't need to rape her.' The "need" to rape her if she didn't put out made me even angrier.

I would have held out for involuntary manslaughter. The guy she stabbed was a piece of shit and I believed her.

[rocktivity]

3. DING DING DING! REP, you're our grand prize winner!

Last edited Tue Jul 13, 2021, 11:04 AM - Edit history (12)

I would have held out for involuntary manslaughter.

If I were a juror, I would have voted for Murder 2. I think there was a conscious intent to kill, and I think her motive was resentment for being treating like a whore.

But if I had been the defense lawyer, I would have gone for a plea deal for manslaughter. Instead of having the opportunity to serve as little as one third of five to fifteen years, she's "stuck" having to serve all of twenty-two years.


rocktivity

[whathehell]

2. That sounds like silly misogynistic bullshit..

Do you REALLY think that most overweight women "harbor so much self-hatred and jealousy that they'd send

a young, pretty, skinny, innocent woman to jail as 'revenge'"?...Please.

Remember that this is coming from a MALE who is himself, probably so accustomed to evaluating women

on their looks alone, that he imagines that we do the same to ourselves and other women.

Like so many, he needs to be reminded that women are HUMANS with computer brains and the same level

of concerns and interests that men have, rather than being one dimensional beings consumed solely by

physical appearance, be it their own or those of other women.

[Th1onein]

4. Yep. Please....

[Shankapotomus]

8. Let me play Devil's Advocate here

Where is your precise evidence of misogyny?

Is it possible the lawyer is proceeding toward that particular strategy out of a notion that "like favors like" and those not alike can harbor biases toward each other and this was just a cautious lawyer's way of eliminating that possibility?

Maybe that is just one of the possible biases the lawyer eliminated. That doesn't necessarily mean they are misogynous. Maybe there are statistics that say, on average, overweight women do tend to side against skinny women and the lawyer is looking at it from a purely numbers perspective.

In a similar way of eliminating the possibility for abuse, not all men walking toward a women on a dark, lonely street are going to attack them but it wouldn't be misandry if a women walked to the other side of the street every time as a precaution.


It's also the job of the lawyer to anticipate unflattering biases on potential jurors as a service to their client.

[kdmorris]

5. I'm not sure if your last paragraph is sarcastic or not

But it's disappointing, to say the least, to learn that overweight women harbor so much such self-hatred and jealousy that they'd send young, pretty, skinny, innocent women to jail as revenge. I suppose I should therefore feel comforted that there are lawyers vigilant enough to keep them off juries. But it comes across as a demeaning, archaic, VERY sexist stereotype all the same.

Are you saying your believed this bullshit? Or is this tongue in cheek? Because is IS complete bullshit... as much crap as overweight women (and men for that matter, though I still believe young women suffer the most... society tells them they are supposed to be beautiful, whereas men are told they need to be strong) take from just about every.single.aspect of their lives, this is just another example of over-the-top crap that they have to live with. Now they can't be on juries because someone said they are VERY unsympathetic and a bunch of people believe that???

OMG, I could go on and on. I've watched my daughter suffer (and I do mean SUFFER) for being overweight most of her life (hyperinsulinemia) and the things that young people think they can get away with (and did because after years of that abuse, she found it hard to stand up for herself, since the torment gets worse if you fight back) in tormenting her because she's "just a fat chick" make me want to really kill someone.

And she is the kindest, most sympathetic person I've met - with little self-esteem, unfortunately...she would never "send a young, pretty, skinny, innocent woman to jail for revenge"... when she had jury duty, she took it VERY seriously and tied herself up in knots to do the right thing. And yes, I do know that my daughter is just one person, but as far as I've been able to tell, most young women who are overweight are more likely to hurt themselves than someone else... after years of bullying, they have very little self-esteem left.

[rocktivity]

6. DING DING DING! Kdmorris, you're our OTHER grand prize winner!

Last edited Tue Apr 18, 2023, 01:34 PM - Edit history (9)

...(A)s much crap as overweight women (and men, for that matter...) take from just about every.single.aspect of their lives, this is just another example of over-the-top crap that they have to live with...

Yes, I was being sarcastic. But it paid off -- thanks to your reaction, I now understand mine.

I couldn't agree more that it's over-the-top crap, but it is how lawyers choose jurors. It's one thing to fear that a juror might be creative-minded enough to see through a bullshit legal strategy. But fearing that an overweight female juror would unleash her lack of esteem and life of torment upon an otherwise innocent defendant because she's young and attractive belongs to the days when women were considered "too emotional" to serve on juries at all.


rocktivity

[rocktivity]

7. UPDATE: I think it happened again

Last edited Fri May 2, 2014, 07:01 PM - Edit history (2)

Was called to jury duty yesterday. I got on the line to ask to be excused. People went in one at a time and spent about five minutes with the judge and lawyers before leaving. Except for one woman -- one overweight woman -- who came out literally within fifteen seconds after the door had closed when she went in.

Whatever her story was, it must have been as heartbreaking as it was short. Or maybe the lawyers simply took one look at her and waved bye-bye...


rocktivity