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Sun May 12, 2019, 04:59 PM

Men get to be whole people all the time. Women get to be objects.



Great quote.

15 replies, 1485 views

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Reply Men get to be whole people all the time. Women get to be objects. (Original post)
Soph0571 May 2019 OP
Triloon May 2019 #1
Soph0571 May 2019 #2
Triloon May 2019 #11
Soph0571 May 2019 #12
Triloon May 2019 #15
DURHAM D May 2019 #3
wasupaloopa May 2019 #9
Merlot May 2019 #10
Soph0571 May 2019 #13
wasupaloopa May 2019 #14
abqtommy May 2019 #4
samnsara May 2019 #5
Soph0571 May 2019 #6
Amyishere May 2019 #7
Soph0571 May 2019 #8

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:20 PM

1. yeah its a pithy quote.

But it's a crock, like a lot of pithy quotes.

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Response to Triloon (Reply #1)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:23 PM

2. Why is it a crock?

It is not a pithy quote, it is from an article by a very excellent feminist writer. So why is it a crock. Please feel free to break down the reasons that you disagree

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #2)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:29 PM

11. I'm sorry, I dont mean to be offensive to either you or your group,

I just don't think that pumping up stereotypes about others can help you break the stereotypes that have been pressed onto yourself. I don't see how that can work out well, and I don't believe that it will.
'Men can live whole lives while women are only objectified' is the stereotyping I refer to. There are millions of examples of how it's true, but there are also millions that contradict it. So I cant accept it as a general truth. Hence, speaking casually, a crock.

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Response to Triloon (Reply #11)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:41 PM

12. Thank you for your reply

I am unclear on a couple of things


I just don't think that pumping up stereotypes about others can help you break the stereotypes that have been pressed onto yourself.


The writer is not pumping up stereotypes. She is writing about the reality of women in our patriarchal society. Trying to diminish a woman's voice in this debate, makes me think your statement that '' I dont mean to be offensive to either you or your group,'' is somewhat disingenuous.

but there are also millions that contradict it


Please expand with ACTUAL examples. I live in a more liberal society than the US and about 90% of the planet and I am struggling... please have at it, the more examples the better.

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #12)

Sun May 12, 2019, 09:09 PM

15. thanks for letting me explore this with you.

Actual examples. hmm. It may be easiest to see in populations that are exclusively male. In these groupings no one is given special credit or privilege for being male. For instance - in prisons, in the military, on sports teams, even in the Boy Scouts, or in (previously) male employments like construction, trucking, mining. In these groups a male is not allowed to be a whole person but is objectified not because of gender, but because of race, age, social status, physical strengths/weaknesses, education, wealth, sexual orientation, political stance, national origin, health, and other bigotries. In some of these groupings the objectification extends down as far as rape and sexual servitude.
I am an 'old white guy', and to me that very term is an example of a de-humanizing, disenfranchising stereotype that serves to separate me from any validity that my actual life may have. Are my experiences and observations invalid because I am old? white? a guy? None of those things can be true, and yet here we are.
Back when I was a Young white guy I was subject to many unearned privileges, and some of those are still with me, but I was also subject to unearned discrimination and denial of the right to be a 'whole person'. A small example- I was a skilled tradesperson in the construction industry. I and my fellow workers were deemed "the guys in the field". White collar office workers were Employees. The rest of us were Guys in the Field. I always wondered what sort of a field it was that they envisioned me in. How's that for objectification? Certainly not as dramatic or brutal as a prison rape, or any rape, and yet I think it makes the authors sentiment that "Men get to be whole people all the time." a crock, and an example of the dishonest objectification that the very article is about.
Just another old white guys opinion, nothing to really be concerned about. Thanks for your time.

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Response to Triloon (Reply #1)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:31 PM

3. You may want to think about what group you are posting in. nt

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #3)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:13 PM

9. No disagreements allowed. Echo chamber

 

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #9)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:21 PM

10. A disagreement is well thought out argument, a snarky comment is just snarky.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #9)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:47 PM

13. What is your disagreement with the post?

Or are you just jumping on a bandwagon of trying to shut up women who point out the patriarchy is shit. This is posted in feminists. If you are not a feminist that is OK. But feel free not to come into the group to defend someone who is trying to shut up feminists having a conversation about feminism.

Just sayin'

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #13)

Sun May 12, 2019, 07:39 PM

14. All the women in my family are feminists. I like it that way. I am most comfortable

 

around independent strong people male and female. Non of us runs with the herd.

I also thinks there are no real absolutes

I think no matter what the dominant culture, people can buck the system. Just by not accepting the place people want to put you in

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:50 PM

4. The key word here is

"generally", which shows that the author realizes that there are exceptions. There are always exceptions. There has to be, to maintain balance.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:51 PM

5. i have read that before...

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Response to samnsara (Reply #5)


Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Sun May 12, 2019, 05:55 PM

7. with men, they associate objectifying women with money and luck: "hookers and blow"

and the old "If I win the lottery, it's two women".

I don't hear women saying that they want to snort cocaine off a man's ass or have two men at once as a regular thing and as a joke.

but it's okay to "thing" women. Just don't be offended by it, or you are a "sensitive snowflake"

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Response to Amyishere (Reply #7)

Sun May 12, 2019, 06:02 PM

8. But if women did say those things

They would be called slut versus a man being called a stud,

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