The "Telling When Stuff Is Done" thread

[Tab]

So, I've been cooking since I was 12-ish. I started either overcooking everything, or undercooking. After a long, long time I graduated to using a meat thermometer. Eventually I got to where I don't need a thermometer and my stuff is cooked properly and juicy nearly always. But it was a long, long process. Here are some things I've learned.

If you use a meat thermometer
First, I mean an "instant read". I don't like the digital ones; I like the analog ones (the ones with a needle) because how it ramps up to the temp tells me a lot about how much it'll gain during resting. A slow ramp up means it probably won't gain much more during resting (but it WILL gain something). A fast ramp tells me it will definitely, aggressively, gain temperature. Which leads me to the next point:

You should not wait for a meat to reach it's "perfect" temperature. Take it off early.
Meat needs to rest after cooking, which allows it to redistribute its juices, and also it's going to continue to cook internally for a little while. So, when cooking poultry, which is good at 165 degrees, I actually pull it at 158 to 160 (unless it's ramping really fast, in which case 155). Sitting on a plate it will continue to cook a bit (and redistribute juices) so that when you serve it, it'll be 165-ish and perfect and juicy. Common point of failure is cooking to 165 to 180, and then pulling it, and it'll continue to cook and so when you serve it, it will have popped another 10 to 15 degrees (it goes higher the hotter it was to begin with), and you're now serving overcooked poultry. This is also why most people can't cook pork properly - they overcook it and it's dry. Pork is perfectly capable of being juicy, but not if you overcook it.

Beware the pop-up indicators
For turkey, and some chicken, companies like Butterball put in these pop-up thingies that "pop up" when the bird is cooked. They're bad for two reasons. First, no one is usually watching it at the time it pops, meaning that it might have popped quite some time before, and is therefore overcooking; second, they're tuned to a fairly high trigger temperature, because none of these companies want to be sued for indicating a bird is cooked when it's really not, so they err way on the safe side. Bottom line - between the thing being set high, and most people not monitoring it anyway, you will have a very overcooked bird when you're done. Also, they're popping up at the ultra-safe temp and, as just explained, the bird will continue to cook internally for a while after you remove it from the heat. Ever wonder why there are so many recipes and articles to address the issue of dry birds (or pork)? It doesn't need to be dry - everyone's overcooking the hell out of their poultry. No wonder it's frickin' dry!

Use tongs when you turn your meat on the grill
And in the process, start becoming familiar with the resistance you get from your meat. Also, pay attention to the resistance when you first put it on the grill (when it's raw). Soon you'll learn how it changes with how it cooks, and eventually you'll be able - for decent cuts of beef, not too tough - to tell how much it's cooked simply by how it bends in your tongs.

Pay attention to smells and visuals
If a piece of salmon is cooking in the oven and I can't smell it when I open the oven door, chances are it's not finished cooking. I often put a light glazy coat of something (like a lime or mojo marinade) on salmon before baking it - if it hasn't started to caramelize, chances are it's not ready yet, however this all depends on the next item...

Choosing the right cooking temperature
On my grill, which is gas-powered, I just crank it, but prop the lid open. Closed lid gives me too much heat, open lid, depending on the weather, the heat can dissipate, so I prop it, and have done so for years, and it works just fine. In the oven, it depends on the kind of oven. I love me my convection oven, and have done so since I started using them long ago. Most stuff I put in between 350 and 375. In a regular oven it'd probably be closer to 400, but don't take that as gospel - I haven't done non-convection cooking for a long time.

So, anyway, this is only my thoughts on the matter... please, please add to the thread... and if you disagree with any of the points above, please say so (and why).

- Tab

[eppur_se_muova]

1. According to Craig Ferguson ...

"In Scotland, when all the flavor is gone, that's how you know it's done!"

[NMDemDist2]

2. it all sounds good to me

as for the 'texture in the tongs' idea, that's how I was taught to do steaks, the 'rule of thumb' method

here's an explanation of the rule of thumb http://kitchensavvy.typepad.com/journal/2005/04/grilling_steak_.html

and if you're cooking a pot of beans to go with the steaks, blow on a bean gently, if the skin splits the beans are done!

[Tab]

3. I'm not sure I'd use the rule of thumb

I mean, it addresses the same principle, but constantly putting my thumb on a steak on the grill... I'd rather not.

[NMDemDist2]

4. you don't put your thumb on it

you poke the steak then compare it to the resistance on your hand

[Tab]

5. My bad then :)

Not paying attention

[Major Nikon]

6. I've never been a big fan of this method

...and it could very well be that I'm just too inept to get consistent results.

The problem is different types of steaks that have various levels of fat and connective tissue are going to produce different results. Even if you are always cooking the same type of steak, with the same grade, cut to the same thickness there can still be variances with the texture of the meat. I'd be highly skeptical of even someone who is adept at this method being able to consistently produce results that are plus or minus 10 degrees from optimum and even smaller variances in temperature can produce big differences in taste and texture.

Meat is expensive and many people are particular about doneness levels. So the way I look at it is why take your chances with an imperfect method when a good instant read thermometer costs only $20?

http://www.thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt301wa.html

[Tab]

8. I only cook a couple of different kinds of steaks

Last edited Sat Sep 1, 2012, 04:51 PM - Edit history (1)

and yes, I mentioned testing the pliancy while it was still raw. This technique works better with the higher marbled meats, I agree. But for the cuts I usually do, it seems to work well.

Plus, I must add, it's not the only indicator; there's visuals and smells as well, and a sense of time. I think that cognitively, it's not so much that I know when it's cooked, but rather that I know when it's not undercooked, and that's when I pull it.

On edit: I do want to confirm that I do check the actual internal temp if I have any question, but I usually try to be consistent in the brand and cuts of meat and boneless chicken, which may also be why it's easier - it's often the same familiar cuts.

[Major Nikon]

7. I use different thermometers depending on the job

For grilled meats I use an instant read thermometer. For roasting meats I prefer to use a non-instant read probe type that has a remote readout. That way I can leave the probe in during cooking and I don't have to open the oven. One problem I've found with these is that the probes go bad on a fairly regular basis. Other than that I'm a big fan of them for roasting meats. I leave the probe in during resting so I can see how much residual cooking is going on. As far as residual cooking goes, a bigger piece of meat is going to need longer resting times and the temperature is going to rise more than a smaller piece of meat. I've found the difference is usually between 5-10 degrees for beef and pork roasts, and most poultry.

[Tab]

9. I have heard that the probes burn out and have to be replaced

I haven't used them myself, but when I was considering them I'd be reading reviews that the probes often have to be replaced. Seems like a costly PITA.

[Major Nikon]

10. It is

I'm not sure if they get burned out or washing them leads to internal corrosion. The last one I bought uses high temperature electrical wire on the probe rather than braided metal. It also came with two probes (which I like). So far it's lasted a year or so and still works fine which is about the longest I've ever gotten out of one. Hopefully the design is much better.

This is the one I have:
http://www.amazon.com/Polder-Probe-Cooking-Thermometer-Black/dp/B000AY6UH8

It gets mediocre reviews on Amazon, and many of the negative comments are regarding the probes. I haven't found one of these that gets really good reviews and the probes always seem to be the weak link. Most of these are only designed for about 400 degrees F max and people will often try to use them on the grill and wonder why the probes fail, so you have to take some of the reviews with a grain of salt. Someday I might try buying an industrial grade probe and modifying the connector so it will work with these type of receiving units. I have a really nice temperature datalogger for which I can easily get industrial grade probes, but the down side is it doesn't have an alarm which you get with the ones designed for cooking.

[Tab]

11. 400 degrees wouldn't work on my grill

And even in the oven, where stuff is often 375, I'd get concerned about something that topped off @400.

[surrealAmerican]

12. The other very basic thing that took me years to figure out ...

... is not to cook meat, or especially fish, that's straight from the refrigerator. Let it come to room temperature first.

[Tab]

13. yes, good point

I forgot to mention that. It can make a difference between undercooked and properly cooked.

I should note that I rely a great deal on predictability. I try to have similar cuts of meat, similar marbling, weights, sizes, and so forth. This all makes it a lot easier to repeat the same success over and over. Having a similar starting temperature is key to that too.

Thanks

[sir pball]

14. Buy a cake tester

One of those thin wire probes with a plastic handle...you can get swanky Oxo ones at Williams-Sonoma for $2.50 or a 6-pack of Wilton ones for $6 at a supply store.

Stick in into a piece of meat, count to five, then quickly pull it out and touch it to your lip. With some practice you'll learn exactly how warm a particular doneness is and you'll be faster and just as accurate as a thermometer. When I have any doubt about how something feels (poking is always the first-line test) at work I check it this way.

[pscot]

15. It's taken me 10 years to learn how to fry a pork chop

Time well-spent, actually.