The inevitable demise of nonstick pans

[spinbaby]

I realized this morning as I was soaking the pan I had cooked my breakfast eggs in, that it’s time to replace my nonstick pans next time I’m at Costco. Regular pans are forever, but nonstick need to be replaced every couple of years, even if they still look good.

[FarPoint]

1. Once I purchased a set of All Clad..

Copper Core Non-Stick...I was in heaven...I bought the pair of 8 and 10 inch non stick/copper core pans...perfect.

[FarPoint]

5. Here is a link...if I did this correctly...

William Sonoma has them on sale...

https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/all-clad-copper-core-nonstick-fry-pan-set/?pkey=s%7Call%20clad%20copper%20core%7C5

[Devilsun]

6. All-Clad is manufactured in the small town I grew up in near Pittsburgh 😊

[FarPoint]

7. Canonsburg, Pa...

just up the road from....Bridgeville where my mom and sister live....

[spinbaby]

9. Before the pandemic, All-Clad had factory sales

Much of my cookware is from the All-Clad factory sales because I live in the area. Their nonstick, alas, also expires—not as quickly as the cheap stuff, but eventually. My last nonstick came from Costco and held up well and was decently priced.

[underpants]

2. It's space age technology

and we are living in the digital age.

We had a choice and there were bound to be costs.

[mopinko]

3. teflon is one of the most toxic compounds on earth.

the birth defects in worker's kids are horrendous. it has been found in arctic snow.
and anyone w pet birds can tell you what happens when you over heat the stuff, or get a scratch in it.
should have been outlawed years ago.

i am tempted by the new ceramic ones, tho.

[Ponietz]

12. +1 and hormonal changes have been documented many years now

[mopinko]

15. yeah. employees have defective babies if they can have them at all.

[sir pball]

22. Teflon is one of the LEAST toxic compounds. It's the old manufacturing process that's the problem.

PTFE (the chemical name for Teflon) is so inert it's commonly used in medical implants, as well as in virtually every industrial chemistry process on earth. You could eat a handful of Teflon shavings and all that would happen is...the next morning's constitutional would be interesting.

The problem is the precursor chemical, PFOA, which is indeed nasty nastiness - it's carcinogenic, hepatotoxic, immunotoxic, and plays hell with thyroid hormones, among other lovely effects. It's not in finished Teflon products, but it was so widely used and is so persistent in the environment that it is indeed found just about everywhere on earth. It's been mostly phased out globally, started here in 2002 and was gone by 2015 - new-production PTFE is perfectly friendly. As for fumes, if Teflon worries you you really don't want to know what happens if you forget about butter and get that stuff smoking - benzopyrene is one of the most carcinogenic substances ever discovered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Ecotoxicity
https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/fact-sheet-20102015-pfoa-stewardship-program

[mopinko]

24. i know a lot of ppl, personally,

who have lost pet birds when they over heated teflon.
and it didnt always take a lot. i know someone who lost a grey in another part of the house from one of those little rotisseries. normal operating temps. but worn, and w a couple scratches.

you dont think dow scrubs wiki?
wake up.

[sir pball]

25. Birds are hypersensitive to ANY organic fumes

Their physiological nature means they're far more sensitive to airborne pollutants as a whole, that's precisely why canaries went into coal mines. The fumes from burning Teflon are not Teflon, any more than the smoke from burnt sugar is sugar - they're completely different chemicals that are the result of breaking down the PTFE polymer with excessive heat. I'm not trying to argue that overheating Teflon isn't bad, the breakdown products are fluorocarbons which nobody wants to be breathing, but by the same token the breakdown products from overheating oils aren't much nicer. The ASPCA recommends keeping birds away when you're cooking, period, not just with coated pans.

"Wake up"? Now, I switched careers 15 years ago, but in my past life I was an organic chemist. I'm pretty familiar with all this stuff and I can say with an absolute, metaphysically certain "I am right, you are wrong" degree of confidence that PTFE is utterly, utterly harmless. As I said, the cheap and easy way to make it is a godawful mess, and no you don't want to be breathing in the combustion products - of it or anything else you put in a pan.

[mopinko]

27. well, i know avian vets that would disagree strongly.

having done the necropsies and all.

[sir pball]

28. Disagree with what? That ANY kind of fume is harmful to birds?

Where, pray tell, have I said that? Or that PTFE fumes aren't toxic? I've been aware of the whole bird angle for ages, and also aware that it's incomplete information.

Burning Teflon fumes kill birds.
Burning butter fumes kill birds.
Self cleaning oven fumes kill birds.
Household cleaning fumes kill birds.
Fumes Kill Birds.

If I had to wager, I'd guess that the Teflon fumes are the best known because 1. Americans have an amazing ignorance and fear of "chemicals" and 2. people are generally aware that a pan with oil can burn, but don't process that an "empty" pan can still emit fumes.

[mopinko]

29. whatever, dude.

i have a science degree too.
birds dropping dead in rooms on the other side of the house doesnt happen w butter or sugar.

[sir pball]

30. Does with ovens and roasting bags.

About thirty seconds Googling gets you many examples of self-cleaning ovens (which do not contain Teflon) killing birbs on the other side of the house, and even one from using a roasting bag at Thanksgiving.

Anyway, the whole point of this thread wasn't that the combustion products of a fluoropolymer are harmful, it's that Teflon itself, not its precursors nor its decomposition products, is as close to a harmless material as one can get. I mean, if you really, genuinely believe that it's "the most toxic chemical ever", you REALLY don't want to know how widespread it is...sorry, but you're misinformed and I'm trying to correct it.

[mopinko]

31. well, nice try anyway.

[sir pball]

32. Hm? I don't need to try, I know.

Are you seriously saying that you believe PTFE itself, not its breakdown products is highly toxic? What do you think would happen if a hunk of Teflon were embedded in a human's body?

[BusyBeingBest]

4. I never use metal utensils in them, always hand wash them,

and yet after a few years they lose their nonstick, even with no obvious scratches. Must be tiny unseen cracks in the teflon from age or expansion of metal with heat? I don't know. Tried the ceramic kind to be healthier, and they just don't work, so I went back to teflon.

[sir pball]

26. Get commercial stuff, it definitely lasts longer

I picked up a "nonstick omelette pan" at a restaurant supply store in 2010 and it's still virtually immaculate, it definitely has no sticking issues. I even run it through the machine most of the time. $25 well spent.

Also, a spritz of Pam spray definitely helps. Not like you would a steel pan, just the lightest coating.

[BusyBeingBest]

36. I will consider that, thanks.

[woodsprite]

8. I have mostly replaced mine with ceramic coated

I wanted the whole set (Zwilling Spirit 3-ply stainless, ceramic coated) but couldn't afford it, so I bought piece by piece. I have almost replaced my entire collection of teflon pans. I need to get a small frypan, a 3-qt sauce pan and their 4-qt brasier and my replacements will be complete! Every time I get enough points on my PayPal to get a gift card, I'll order a $50 one for myself from Bed Bath and Beyond or another store that carries the pans (using that with a 20% off coupon keeps the price down and distributed - keeping hubby happy).

I also really like the Le Creuset set that I received for my 35th year at work. It included a 6qt stock pot, 3qt open baking dish, and 3qt covered baking dish. Actually I prefer the Le Creuset stock pot to the Zwilling one. It comes to a rolling boil faster.

[nebby70]

10. been having good experiences with the copper chef ones ...

... cleaned up burnt on brown sugar/butter mess by letting it sit with some water for a few minutes and it wiped right out with a towel...
(do not mock me for letting it burn ... it's been a tough week/month/year ...)


...we've bought baking pan, skillet and 3 quart pot and loved them enough to buy cookie sheets too...

[jimfields33]

11. I read that if you have food burned on a pan,

Put water in it and boil the water. The burn parts come loose and it cleans easier. Of course be careful with the hot pot and water. I use oven mitts. But it works! I even use it to get the spaghetti sauce loosened before clean up. Made my life so much easier.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

14. Yes that does work

I learned that when I worked as a dishwasher in a fancy restaurant in my university days (1970s).
Adding detergent helps.

[yellowdogintexas]

38. yes that works and throw some Oxy Clean in it. nt

[Midnight Writer]

19. Yeah, I was surprised by the Copper Chef frypan I bought.

It was cheap ($18) but it has held up under near daily use for three years now.

It's got a few dings, probably time for a replacement, but still in use and easy to clean.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

13. I have 50+ year old

well seasoned cast iron pans, that I inherited from my mother, and are virtually non-stick, even with fried or scrambled eggs.
And I can use metal utensils at my whim.

[Auggie]

16. LOVE cast iron cookware. It's hard to beat.

Can't use it on those new-fangled stove stops though.

[BillyBobBrilliant]

17. Yes...

I have mirror finish Stainless Steel too...
If kept polished they don't stick...
No metal utensils though

[Auggie]

18. My father used to fish the Georgian Bay in summer (Lake Huron) ...

bunch of buddies from work would take two weeks off and live on fish they caught. They used an enormous cast iron skillet to cook with. As they ate it would be left on the campfire until super hot, then dipped in the cold waters of the bay. It came out clean as a whistle, perfectly seasoned, and ready for the next meal.

[Warpy]

20. I gave my lovingly seasoned cast iron frypans away a couple of years ago

because my wrists just couldn't cope. Calphalon releases stuck on crud after a few hours of soaking. Plain steel pans can be seasoned almost as well as cast iron, they just don't hold heat nearly as well. Still, I'm managing between them.

I never really did like teflon. Cast iron was nonstick once seasoning had built up and just got better with use.

[yellowdogintexas]

37. I did the same thing! We were moving and pulling out things to send to a relief

project for some hurricane or another and I accidentally let my best cast iron skillet get in the donates. I still don't know how that happened. I had others which were never seasoned as well. but I could make omelets in that one.

[no_hypocrisy]

21. Except for All-Clad, I think I have my bases covered.

Cast iron skillets (3) and cast iron Dutch oven and casserole dish.

Full set of Farberware pots and pans.

Smattering of Revereware (likely 50+ years old).

They all deliver the goods and my food/meals come out great.

[sir pball]

23. Skip Costco and go to a restaurant supply store

Ask for a nonstick omelette pan. Should be under $25 and the Teflon is quite a bit more durable than on consumer-grade gear; they usually last at least a year in a restaurant, I've had one at home for ten years and it still works a treat.

[spinbaby]

33. That's a good idea

My in-person shopping is pretty limited right now, but a trip to restaurant supply is a tempting field trip.

[sir pball]

34. Webstaurantstore.com is great if you don't want to go out nt

[spinbaby]

35. Did a bit of research

The good nonstick pans sold in kitchen supply stores are Vollrath Wear-Ever, sold by many online stores.

[Pobeka]

39. No nonstick for me. Stainless steel belgique pans. Over twenty years old, still going strong.

I never use metal in them either.

i have no problem with food sticking, I only use EVOO for oil, even in asian dishes.

Bartender's keeper works wonders keeping them looking shiney and new