I don't know what to do about my dog

[PasadenaTrudy]

She's a 12 yr old Chi/terrier mix. My vet that I normally go to noticed she has a heart murmur. He wants to do a bunch of tests - - blood, scans, EKG, etc, close to $900. I cannot afford this! I went to another vet, highly rated, to get second opinion. He suggested just doing blood and 2 xrays. So we did this ( $400 ), and found she has an enlarged heart. All her blood work came back fine. This was last week. Now she is getting more and more tired, sleeping more. She hasn't eaten much the last few days and is hiding under the bed. How do you know when it's time to put a dog down? New vet said I should consider a cardiologist but that would be at least $500! I hate that this is all so expensive! Any advice would help. I hope she comes around in the next few days!

[hlthe2b]

1. Find an experienced veterinarian that holds a philosophy of tailoring treatment to both patient &

client.... They do exist and can work with you if you are very very very clear on your expectations, that you want to ensure as much quality of life (even at the expense of QUANTITY of life) and would ask if they could attempt medical treatment based on currently available physical findings and lab/radiographic findings TO DATE. Tell them you'd be willing to sign an informed consent, if necessary that makes clear you know that to do so, without more expensive work up, may carry some intrinsic risks, but you really want to avoid premature euthanasia if possible and restore some remaining quality days for your dog.

The problem many owners get into (as do patients with their physicians) is being afraid to very clearly state their own expectations and restrictions on care.

Good luck to you... As with human medicine, emphasis on diagnostic technology often comes at the expense of quality physical examination and heart/lung auscultation-- which on its own, can go a very long way in monitoring the effectiveness of drug therapy and response to treatment.

[jtuck004]

2. There are medications that could help, if that really is the problem. There is a vet here

that donates a few hours a week to the Union Gospel Mission, and sometimes she can direct people to care.

You might try calling such a place in your town and see if they know of any vets that can help for a little less. Cardiologists are nice, but if you talk with a vet and come to an understanding that they will do the best they can without that extra diagnostic info, they can suggest less expensive alternatives.

I don't know where you live, but if you are in the city try calling one whose office is in a less expensive area, or one that is more rural. They are sometimes more used to treating animals for owners with less resources. Tell them you have a little money, but that you really need an alternative, see what they can do.

Oh, and just so you know, the front desk hears this 24/7, mostly from people who have the money and don't want to spend it on the dog, think vets should just somehow give away the half million dollars or so in debt it took them to open an office. So let them know you are just trying to work within your limited budget, but need an alternative.

Don't give up. Just so you know, we had a dog with an enlarged heart that lived with us, pretty normal life, for ten years after we rescued him, (common in Oklahoma - worms), so it isn't always as bad as it may seem.

Thank you for taking care of her the best you can.

[PasadenaTrudy]

3. She didn't even

want her favorite treats last night. She just sat motionless staring at me.

[hlthe2b]

4. While I don't doubt the finding of heart murmur, enlarged heart, it is also possible these findings

are incidental to the real problem, which could be pain (lumbar spine, hips, joints?) or GI...

You might want to ask the veterinarian to repeat the exam from the beginning, as sometimes one abnormal finding can mask another.

[Walk away]

5. 10 years ago your average Vet would have started your dog on...

diuretics and monitored the results. I am taking care of a little "heart disease" Shih Tsu right now and he is on everything from Viagra to Oxycodone costing hundreds of dollars a week. Apparently, his specialist's bill and testing was enough to impress even his wealthy Upper East Side NYC owner.
My little town Vet still diagnoses with a stethoscope and blood tests. He still treats with Enacard and Lasix. It has done the trick for my Tiny who was diagnosed at 12 and is now 16. The cost is and was minimal.
I don't know if your dog's problem is an enlarged heart but maybe you need to find a Vet can read your test results, listen to your dogs heart and start him on some meds. I can't understand why an enlarged heart and a murmur is so unusual that it needs a specialist and hundreds of dollars more in testing. Especially if the Vet understands that you cannot afford it.

[Chemisse]

6. Vets nowadays treat pets like humans, in terms of medical care.

The problem with that is it is hugely expensive to run bloodwork, take xrays, and go to specialists.

Our pets have short lives. It makes no sense at all to spend thousands of dollars treating a dog or cat who is doomed to die in a couple of years no matter what we do for it.

But because we love our pets, we are vulnerable. We long to save them, and damn the cost. It would be nice if the vets offered a voice of reason, stuck to common-sense procedures, and gave sage advice on when to put the animal down.

Instead, we are exploited (in my opinion) and big vet bills have become the norm.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. The choice to treat a pet, or not, and to what degree, is incredibly personal.

There are no rules and no rights or wrongs. What I am about to say is right for us, and I am happy to talk about it, but I would NEVER dare judge how another responsible pet owner deals with their animals.

I am actually pretty much where you are. We have had this discussion in our family and we are of the "less is more" school. We will do whatever it takes to keep our animals healthy and happy. But in our view, that includes end of life decisions that follow closer to the natural order. Our pets will never be asked/made to suffer. But neither will we cause them to stay alive longer than their bodies dictate is right for them.

For example, we will keep them in heartworm meds for the entirety of their lives, but we won't have them get extraordinary treatment that might buy them (us, really) a few more months. *They* will tell *us* when its time.

In the meantime, the sharing of unconditional love with them is incredible. They are each pure joy with fur and four legs.

I don't envy anyone wrestling with these decisions.

[Chemisse]

12. I don't blame anyone for going to extremes to treat their pet,

as long as they can afford it, and as long as the pet is not suffering unnecessarily.

My fear is that this is setting a new norm, and that vets might be conveying that expectation to pet owners.

Everybody but the poorest among us should be able to experience the joys of having a beloved pet by their side. I don't want to see it become restricted to the well-to-do.

[Walk away]

8. I couldn't agree with you more.

I am lucky to have the resources to treat my dogs at specialist if I believe it is necessary. I trust my little old local Vet to send me to one ONLY if it will actually help. He knows that I will not treat cancer in my senior pets no matter how much it breaks my heart to lose them. I'll be damned if I'll put a pet that I love through all of that. And that I refuse to keep my pets alive at any cost to them.

But this persons dog may or may not need to be treated for heart decease as simple as an enlarged heart at 12 yrs old and her "well recommended" Vet can't make a simple diagnosis without a specialist.

[Chemisse]

11. Yeah, I certainly don't want to presume what is best for PasadenaTrudy and her pet.

I just wish we could rely on our vets to give us pros and cons of costly procedures and just overall practical advise.

[Voice for Peace]

9. you don't always need to put them down.

My old dog lived for years with advanced cancer
but the quality of her life was fair and she wasn't
suffering noticeably, she just slowed way way down.
I agonized about whether to put her down but
it just never felt like she was ready to go.
One day she could hardly walk, her breathing
was rapid and shallow. She made it across the
room to where I was and lay down on the floor.
I sat with her head in my lap and she passed
away, just like that.

It is a ripe age for a dog to be ready to go..
I don't know about her breed mix but 12
is old age for many dogs.

But let her tell you when it's time. And maybe
she will just let go, you won't have to do it.

Sounds like she is slowing down that way.
I'm so sorry, it is sad. But my memory of
my dog's death, those last days and hours
together, are incredibly sweet, not sad. It was
a magnificent ending. I am not one for
believing in afterlife but have a strong sense
I will see her again one day.

Very best wishes with this time & your pup.

[Chemisse]

13. What a lovely way for your dog to pass.

It's so much easier when you don't have to have her euthanized. My dog gradually slowed down just like that, and we had hoped she would pass on naturally. But in the end, when she collapsed and just laid on the floor, unmoving but looking miserable, we called the travelling vet to put her down. It was her time, but we just had to spare her the last hours or days of suffering.

[Voice for Peace]

14. I agonized about it especially because we'd put down another dog

.. long story but I don't think it was his time
to go, it wasn't my decision to make however,
and it still rips me up to remember the
experience, he wasn't ready to let go and
neither was I... the will to live is powerful.

So when my other dog was old and ill I
didn't want to rob her of a moment if she
wasn't ready to go. Even at the very end..
I had set up a bed for myself in the livingroom
so I could sleep with her, she couldn't go
upstairs anymore and I was sure the end
would come that night. She was so weak,
but she thought I had made the bed for her,
and she dragged herself up on it. That's
my final memory of her, she sat up on that
bed and smiled across the room at me,
panting..

that was when she got up and walked
towards me, still smiling the way dogs do
when they are happy.

And her legs gave out. but there
was this beautiful love and communication
right to the end.

Couldn't have asked for a better gift.

[Chemisse]

16. What a sweet girl.

I hope my next experience is like yours.

Either way, I hold out a lot of hope that our souls will meet again in the after life.

[orleans]

10. i recently learned a lesson i didn't want to learn

and that is: sometimes it is just their time

my little dog decided one day (about 8 weeks ago) to stop eating and drinking.
well...!
tests at the vet the next day, trying her favorite foods, alternative foods, force feeding her baby food and water out of a little syringe (with no needle of course)...
a couple days later and we did more blood work, urine test, xrays...
she had a strong heart
(oh good, right?)
and she was getting weaker and weaker
one week and $1,000 later, for some unexplained reason, she just died.
omg!

it was as if she decided (for whatever reason) it was "her time" and i prolonged it for about a week by feeding her but she got her way and she died. and i still can't figure it out. and i still can't get over it. and i'm still devastated.

i just googled and found that the lhasa apso life span is 12-14 years. my baby was 13.5 years. but i wanted more. i suppose we always do.

i'm sorry you're going through this. i wish both of you well.

my advice: do what you can and whatever you feel is best.

[DainBramaged]

15. Don't give them any more money

If you can, try and hold her as much as possible so she knows you're her rock. She doesn't understand what's happening, and all she needs is your closeness.


She'll let you know if it's time. Let her know you're there.


All my best


DB

[IrishAyes]

17. I hope everything goes well, Trudy

One of the very best things about this place where I retired and love to complain about (mostly) is the local vet, the only one in the entire county. He takes care of every animal, pet or livestock. Reminds me of James Herriot for all the world. He'd never press people for money they don't have, and living here all his life, he certainly knows which ones do and don't. His office may not be the most modern one in America, but he knows his stuff and considers people before profits. There are plenty folks around here (including yt) who'd defend him with their life. He even loved my old chows, and believe me, not everyone did. When I got Brigid she was 3 months old and I asked about docking her tail but he said no, by the time they're that old they can get complications too easily so he wouldn't do it. I concurred once I understood why.

[a la izquierda]

18. Hi. If there is a university with a veterinary school nearby...

you might try there. My dog had these weird episodes and nobody could figure them out. We took him to Ohio State veterinary school and had the neurologists look at him.

[Kablooie]

19. If you have to finally put her to sleep ...

and if you live in Pasadena, from your nick it seems likely, check out Gifts of Peace In-Home Pet Euthanasia.
This vet in Pasadena comes to your home and she gets 5 stars on Yelp for having a great bedside manner and keeps the process as peaceful as possible.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/gifts-of-peace-in-home-pet-euthanasia-pasadena-3

My dog is 14 and her kidneys are failing.
She's on subcutaneous electrolyte fluids that give her energy and appetite.
This allows her a little more time to enjoy life but it's only temporary.
My whole family is trying to prepare ourselves for a time that we may need the vet's services.

I was dreading that my dog's last moment would be in the vet's office that she hates so much.
This sounds like a much preferable way to send her off if you have to.

[TexasBushwhacker]

20. I had a cat with a heart murmur that lived to be 22

I would be more concerned about pain than anything. I've never been one to go to extreme expense to care for my pets, but then I just never have had the kind of money where it was a choice.

[CountAllVotes]

21. You've received some good advice here

Last edited Mon Sep 2, 2013, 08:41 AM - Edit history (1)

I know when my two cats got sick at the end of 2011 I was devastated.

I didn't know what I could do (nothing was the answer) so I waited until the time had come to do something which I did.

I have noticed ads lately that say to take your dog/cat/etc. to the vet twice a year for a complete physical. Where I live just one physical for a cat is $200.00. So, if I still had three cats that would be $1200.00 a year for a physicals. In fact, I'd never heard of such a thing until I heard ads on the T.V.!

I don't have thousands of dollars to toss around on such things as bi-yearly physicals for a cat. Maybe it is a good idea I guess if you can afford it. It seems that many around here do not and I think it is pretty shameful that a vet would recommend and charge for something like this which is just my own opinion. I believe many vets are just plain greedy and will do anything for a buck (like de-claw a cat or de-bark a dog!).

I believe you have already done a lot more than many people would do and I wish you and your dog the best. I can sure understand what and your dog are going through during this difficult time and yes it is indeed a very difficult time. You can only afford what you can afford and that is the end of it as far as I am concerned.