Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:21 PM Feb 2014

I'm going to sound like one of those parents! long post

I realize I know my dog and his personality which may not be easy for someone else to experience upon first glance. I like to think of him as big and beautiful but others may not see him that way. However, anyone who's ever tried to pet him or know him quickly finds out he's a little bunny rabbit in a big dog suit.

I took him to a new vet for his annual checkup. He can't get vaccines due to past issues, but I still get the heartworm check and the routine physical/blood work.

The two attendants at the front desk both came over to meet him and welcome him. They pet him while he sniffed around and I filled out paperwork.

Then another attendant came and weighed him and took us to an exam room. She also talked to him reassuringly and then said she was taking him to the back to draw blood.

After a few minutes, she brought him back in and had a muzzle on him. I thought that was odd as I don't think he's ever been muzzled but I figured they may do it when they are doing the lab work. However, when the vet came in, they left it on. This made my dog very nervous and the attendant held him stiffly and I said I didn't think he liked being muzzled. The vet went up behind him and started listening to his heart and said "better safe than sorry". Then my dog growled a very low growl when she touched his back legs (which I admit, he does hate.) The vet said, "See? He's stressed." I said he stressed because he doesn't like the muzzle.

Now here's where I am going to sound like one of those parents who thinks their child does no wrong, lol. My dog has growled at a vet exactly ONCE in my presence prior to this and that was during a checkup after he had been hospitalized twice, had his stomach all shaved, and had three weeks of needles and tubes. I was shocked that time because just prior to this, two little boys had run up to him to pet him and the parents (and I) had freaked out a little cause we didn't know how he'd react when he wasn't feeling well. Meanwhile, my dog just laid there and let the little boys pet him and touch his nose.

But all checkups to this point have always been on a table and he hasn't been muzzled and the vets do their checking and looking in his ears and he doesn't like it but he has never done anything except whine a little.

Yesterday, when the vet was done with his back legs, she moved to the other side of the room and the attendant left the room. Then the vet said I could remove the muzzle and once I did, my dog started panting and doing what looks like the smiling face and he moved around and started sniffing again. He was relaxed. Then the vet asked ME to lift his gums and show her his teeth. I guess I was so surprised by all of this that I just did it but I was really thinking WTF? Are you afraid of THIS dog? This dog that will lick you to death if you let him? She never touched him or said anything to him. She stayed on the other side so I don't even know how well she could really see his teeth.

When we left to pay, a puppy pulled on his mom's leash and came right up to my dog and sniffed and wagged and my dog sniffed and wagged.

I will not take my dog to a vet that is scared of my dog! Am I overreacting?

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I'm going to sound like one of those parents! long post (Original Post) Phentex Feb 2014 OP
No, not at all overreacting imo, elleng Feb 2014 #1
Thanks... Phentex Feb 2014 #8
I take it this is a new vet? intheflow Feb 2014 #2
Yes... Phentex Feb 2014 #9
You are not overreacting. Curmudgeoness Feb 2014 #3
I am fine with muzzling during lab work... Phentex Feb 2014 #10
No... not overreacting at all... CherokeeDem Feb 2014 #4
Thanks... Phentex Feb 2014 #11
Our biggest baddest dog is a teddy bear with people. hunter Feb 2014 #5
Mine is a big baby... Phentex Feb 2014 #12
If the dog growls, that is a warning and the dog could bite. I agree with the vet, better be safe, Sunlei Feb 2014 #6
But the exam wasn't over... Phentex Feb 2014 #13
Can't open a dogs mouth /w a muzzle and sure stay out of bite range. Sunlei Feb 2014 #15
it's a new vet with new people TorchTheWitch Feb 2014 #7
This is very good information and I will check it out... Phentex Feb 2014 #14
Unfortunately they can't check a dog's teeth with a muzzle on TorchTheWitch Feb 2014 #16

intheflow

(28,460 posts)
2. I take it this is a new vet?
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 06:53 PM
Feb 2014

Also, it may have been the combination of the muzzle and the attendant. If the attendant was the one who muzzled the dog the combo of both leaving would have relaxed the dog.

But: if a vet is scared of dog bites - and doesn't volunteer any information about having been mauled in the past - I'd say they were in the wrong line of work and you should look for another vet. Really, you are quite right to have been offended.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
9. Yes...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:17 AM
Feb 2014

It was a combo of everything to me. The attendant did not seem afraid but did hold him stiffly. In the past, if he had to be held, they sorta bear hugged him.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
3. You are not overreacting.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 08:42 PM
Feb 2014

First of all, it sounds like the vet doesn't have a good rapport with your dog, and that is very important---at least it would be for me. And secondly, you have to feel that the vet is doing a good job and caring for your pet, and you do not feel that way. The muzzle may have been necessary, since you didn't see how your dog reacted in the back of the office, but they did not communicate that to you. Or it may be that muzzles are standard procedure at that office, and since you don't agree with that, why would you go back?

Just keep looking for the right vet. This is not the right one.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
10. I am fine with muzzling during lab work...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:19 AM
Feb 2014

It takes both me and my husband to clip his nails so I can just imagine how he'd squirm if something was being shot into him or stuck up his bottom. I just found it very odd that she wouldn't touch him at all.

CherokeeDem

(3,709 posts)
4. No... not overreacting at all...
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 09:04 PM
Feb 2014

I was the proud mommy of two Retrievers... a Flat-coat and Golden... both sweethearts... never growled at anyone, never saw a stranger. My Golden would stay with us when we were ill, even going to the bathroom with us when one of us was throwing up.

We moved to Florida... went to vet because of fleas... and the second the vet walked into the room, my Flat-coat got behind the chair and my Golden backed under it. I talk with her for a bit, but the dogs didn't want to get near her. I said thank you and left... took them down to another nearby vet. who they loved.

No... this vet didn't ask questions just assumed... not the vet I would want.

So sorry you and your doggie had to go through that.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
11. Thanks...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:22 AM
Feb 2014

I do remember one vet who seemed to be afraid of our rottweiler when we had one, but he wasn't our usual vet and no others ever had a problem with her.

This time, my dog did try to get near her but she kept her distance. I honestly do not think he was afraid of her.

hunter

(38,309 posts)
5. Our biggest baddest dog is a teddy bear with people.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:38 PM
Feb 2014

Loves 'em all. In the great Northern Wilderness of his ancestors people ate all the bad dogs.

Our little wild dog strives to be invisible even if humans are doing unspeakable things to her like sticking a thermometer up her butt, drawing blood, or giving her shots.

"Nope, I'm not here, this isn't happening! No eye contact! No eye contact! Look away!"

Our oldest most domestic mild-mannered sweetest dog in every way, that's the one who is most trouble at the vet's. She recently had a tumor cut out of her, benign thankfully, but if she'd come back with a muzzle, or the vet asked me to muzzle her, I'd understand. Certain things terrify her into mindlessness, and going to the vet is one of those things.

The sound of diesel engines is another. As a puppy she was picked up by animal control at a truck stop. I'll never know what horrors she experienced.

She has some issues, not just diesel engines. We were her last resort "rescue parents" and for a couple of years she didn't really know how to be a dog. Our other dogs, her mentors, would sometimes look at her like

"Just be a dog!"

She's grown up to become a pretty good dog, she's mellow now and a bit of a clown, but it took some time.



Phentex

(16,334 posts)
12. Mine is a big baby...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:26 AM
Feb 2014

his sister, our black lab that we lost last year, was the diva and ruled the roost and clearly told this one what to do all the time. He is still lost without her.

He will try to climb into the chair with you if there's a thunderstorm and he is bigger than the chair.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
6. If the dog growls, that is a warning and the dog could bite. I agree with the vet, better be safe,
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 02:13 AM
Feb 2014

then sorry. Dogs can turn really fast and give a hard bite. The muzzle use is safer for your legal liability too. If anyone is bitten you are responsible.

Your dog was happy when the muzzle was off because he's smart enough to know that 'exam' was over.

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
13. But the exam wasn't over...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:27 AM
Feb 2014

she made me show her his gums and teeth. And show her a spot on his ear. She would not touch him.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
15. Can't open a dogs mouth /w a muzzle and sure stay out of bite range.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:51 AM
Feb 2014

I won't touch a dog that gives stress warning signs either. I need my hands for work. Especially if the owner is holding it. A lot of dogs act much better when the owner is gone.

The positive is a exam includes a look at the teeth and mouth. The Vet could have just not looked at the teeth, not asked and taken the muzzle off after they used it "in the back" out of your sight.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
7. it's a new vet with new people
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 08:39 AM
Feb 2014

Just because your dog was fine with the old vet and the people there that he knew doesn't mean he'll be ok with the new place or new people. The dog did something that made them decide he should be muzzled... growled, showed his teeth, something. They're right in putting on the muzzle to keep themselves safe... they don't know your dog and even if they did they should be safety conscious of themselves if the dog shows any sign that he might snap. Being comfortable with kids or other people in normal surroundings doesn't mean a dog is going to feel comfortable with new people at the vet's office. He can smell the discomfort and distress of the other animals there, and this doesn't make any dog feel comfortable just walking in the door. He may have gotten accustomed to your old vet because over time he got to know the place, the people, and decided it wasn't a scary place for him.

Closed mouth muzzles suck, and they just make a dog feel even more anxious not allowing them to pant and especially if they never had to wear a muzzle before. Don't blame the vet for being safety conscious. Your dog did something to warrant they're not feeling safe without the muzzle. It's no big deal and hardly a reason to not want to use the vet anymore. I don't know what happened to your old vet that caused you to go to this new one, but you can't expect your dog to feel comfortable in this new place with people he doesn't know poking and prodding him.

In time your dog may feel more comfortable going to this place and grow accustomed to these people. However, every dog should have an open mouth muzzle just in case that you can bring with you for vet appointments should it be felt it's needed. You never know what might trigger aggression because of whatever the vet or techs need to do especially if they have to poke and prod painful areas... dogs are normally protective of their injuries or where they have pain for some other reason. It's a rare dog that doesn't have a problem going to a strange vet being prodded in places where they have a hurt.

I use a Jasco plastic muzzle for my dog and bring it with me for every vet visit just in case. Though he's not a problem at the vet's office he doesn't like his back end being probed though often he can be sufficiently distracted for needle pokes so much so that he doesn't even notice them, but normally he hates needles. The Jasco muzzle is a hard plastic that lets the dog freely open his mouth to pant or even drink water once they get used to wearing it. Since I knew there was probably going to be a time where Yoshi might need to wear the muzzle at the vet I measured him and it turned out that Boo's old muzzle was the right fit for him, too, and got him accustomed to having it put on and wearing it at home long before he ever needed to wear it at the vet. I bought it at the Leerburg site, and I think that's how I first found Leerburg because I had one hell of a time finding a Jasco muzzle anywhere. They have a new muzzle now that I think I might like better, but haven't gotten it since the Jasco one works well, and he rarely needs to have it on anyway. Leerburg also has loads of instruction that shows you exactly how to measure your dog to make sure you get the right size because the correct size is important for any muzzle.

Check out the different open mouth ("cage" or "basket&quot muzzles and seriously consider getting one for your dog and practicing at home to get him accustomed to wearing it so it doesn't wig him out. Boo went absolutely nutso when they put a closed mouth muzzle on him once to take an x-ray, and being a hairy beast he needs to be able to have his mouth open to pant all the time. Yoshi is the same hairy breed that almost never has his mouth closed, so there's no way I'd want him to go through the trauma that Boo did just the few minutes he had to wear a closed mouth muzzle. I can't even understand why they even make closed mouth muzzles.... what dog wouldn't panic wearing that?

Leerburg also has good instructions for getting your dog used to having the muzzle put on, taken off and wearing it. Though Yoshi would certainly prefer not to wear the muzzle, he's fine with having it put on and wearing it. What I did was first just let him sniff it, and I'd use it to pet him so he got comfortable with this new thing just touching him. That was it for the first day. I did that again the second day, but after that I put a tiny dab of peanut butter inside the muzzle right were his nose would be, and he stuffed his face right in the muzzle himself to lick it off. I didn't strap it on him that time but just held it in place with my hand, and when he was done with the peanut butter licking just took it off, and that was it for that day. The next day I went through the same ritual but this time I strapped the muzzle on while he was enjoying the peanut butter and just sat back. It took him a little while to figure out that it was stuck on his head. I just left him like that for a minute and pet him and giggled (he's happy when I make giggling or laughing sounds) and then took it off and praised him. Same thing the next day but left the muzzle on a little longer. When he tried to paw at it, I told him "no" and distracted him with tickles and hugs and pets for a few minutes then took the muzzle off and praised him really well and gave him a treat. He's been fine with the muzzle ever since and will stuff his face in it just in case there's peanut butter in there since when we practiced it was.... once a dog thinks there might be something yummy somewhere they'll continue to think there might be even if it never is again in that same spot. Yoshi ALWAYS stuffs his own face in his muzzle on the off chance that there MIGHT be peanut butter in there just because a couple of years ago a couple of times there was. I have no doubt he'll keep doing that forever just in case there is though once in a blue moon I may put a little dab of peanut butter in there again just to confirm for him that he should always check.

Check out the various muzzles here (the cloth muzzles are closed mouth ones, so don't bother with them). I didn't like the wire basket muzzles because they weren't big enough to really let him open his mouth to pant, and I didn't trust he wouldn't bend those wimpy little wires. I also like the Jasco plastic muzzle since it's a snap to clean. You can get it in black or white or clear, but I like black best since the white and clear ones gets stained, scuffed and dirty looking no matter how much you clean it...

http://leerburg.com/muzzle.htm

Here's where it tells you how to measure your dog's snoot for the right size muzzle with video, text, photos and size charts...

http://leerburg.com/muzzlefit.htm

One thing I really like about Leerburg is not only to they test all their products themselves but they buy only US made and preferably union made products. They also use edible packing peanuts to ship their products that dissolve in water quickly so they won't cause a bowel obstruction in case your pet or your kid eats one and won't cause any landfill environmental problems like the styrofoam peanuts that most companies use...

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/71/Leerburg_Shipping_Peanuts_-_YOU_CAN_EAT_THEM/

Phentex

(16,334 posts)
14. This is very good information and I will check it out...
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 10:35 AM
Feb 2014

can they check a dog's teeth with a muzzle on?

Our long time vet passed away. His practice was taken over by a large national group and the experience became more expensive and more difficult and certainly less personal. Because of my dog's compromised system, I need someone to really look at his charts and understand that he can't be vaccinated. They still send me reminders for his vaccines. They still send me notices for the dog that passed away even though I told them she's gone. Stuff like that.

Fortunately, we have only needed an annual check up the past two years. But it's nice to have a vet you can call if something comes up.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
16. Unfortunately they can't check a dog's teeth with a muzzle on
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 04:13 PM
Feb 2014

Maybe with one of the thin wire basket muzzles they could take a bit of a look, but they wouldn't want to be so un-thorough. Some dogs need to have dopey drugs to have their teeth checked or brushed. I suspect that mine would. He's fine with me opening his mouth and poking around in there but even people he knows at the vet it's not something I'd want to risk.

For these reasons you mention I don't think I would be very comfortable with this vet... getting the paperwork wrong is disturbing (about your dog that passed away), and I just don't like big chains particularly when it comes to doctors either for myself or my doggie. I much prefer a small single owner practice that's been around for awhile and has a good reputation. Any kind of chain place seems like they just want to crank people or pets in and out and cash the checks.

I'm lucky that I have such a great vet clinic. I'm probably one of their older clients, and I don't know what the heck I'd do without them. I live in terror of either my vet or my auto mechanic going out of business.

I know what you mean about your dog not being able to be vaccinated. My first Akita had a compromised immune system and couldn't have vaccines either. I remember every time his rabies vaccine time came around my vet had to write a letter to the state explaining why he had to be exempt. That's not something I'd want to go through with a new vet.

Hope the info helps!

Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Pets»I'm going to sound like o...