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Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 11:43 PM Mar 2012

French is becoming a polysythetic language?!?!?!?

This article just blew my mind:

http://matnat.ronet.ru/articles/Arkadiev_TypSchool_Polysynthesis_Hand.pdf

It argues that spoken French has developed some characteristics of polysythetic languages like those found among Amerindian and Bantu languages such as noun incorporation into the verb and polypersonal agreement (marking the object as well as the subject on the verb).

The creepy thing is that I am having the English descendant I'm working on for my sci-fi universe evolve in the same way, and that was even long before I read this today!

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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French is becoming a polysythetic language?!?!?!? (Original Post) Odin2005 Mar 2012 OP
The thought has occurred to me, too Lydia Leftcoast Mar 2012 #1
Spam deleted by Paulie (MIR Team) ghjfhgf Sep 2012 #2
Can you give us an example of what you mean? I can't wrap my mind around it. raccoon Sep 2012 #3
It's difficult to explain with examples from English Lydia Leftcoast Oct 2012 #4
Thank you. This is why I like Spanish--words are spelled phonetically. Not a bunch of archaic raccoon Oct 2012 #5
Do not go to Puerto Rico... a la izquierda Dec 2012 #6

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
1. The thought has occurred to me, too
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 02:58 PM
Mar 2012

Written French looks like discreet words, because it preserves a lot of historic letters that are no longer pronounced. But if you listen to it, everything all runs together, and the elision can be tricky.

If French were a previously unknown language that anthropologists were studying for the first time with no knowledge of its Latin derivation, they would probably write it down as at least partly polysynthetic.

raccoon

(31,106 posts)
3. Can you give us an example of what you mean? I can't wrap my mind around it.
Mon Sep 24, 2012, 08:28 AM
Sep 2012

"spoken French has developed some characteristics of polysythetic languages like those found among Amerindian and Bantu languages such as noun incorporation into the verb and polypersonal agreement (marking the object as well as the subject on the verb). "

Examples in English would be great.



Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
4. It's difficult to explain with examples from English
Sun Oct 28, 2012, 09:59 PM
Oct 2012

but in French, there are a lot of letters that are no longer pronounced in most environments but are pronounced in certain cases.

For example, "the friend" (male) is l'ami, short for le ami, but no one says or even writes that anymore.

However, "the friends" is les amis, pronounced "le-zami."

"Do you have?" is avez vous?, prounounced "aveh-vu," but "you have" is vous avez, pronounced "vu zaveh."

"She has" is elle a "el a," but "does she have?" is a-t-elle?, in which the "ghost" of the old way of saying "she has" (elle at) shows up.

"We have seen" is nous avons vu ("nu zavo~ (nasal n) vü), but "we have seen it" is nous l'avons vu ("nu lavo~ vü).

"I have seen" is j'ai vu ("zhey vü&quot but "I have seen it" is je l'ai vu" ("zhe lay vü&quot .

It would be hopeless if it weren't for the archaic spelling and the rules about which letters drop when and which ones are elided onto the next word.

raccoon

(31,106 posts)
5. Thank you. This is why I like Spanish--words are spelled phonetically. Not a bunch of archaic
Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:37 AM
Oct 2012

spelling to clog things up, which English has too much of, as well.



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