Despite Gun Smuggling, New Controls Are Feared

[jpak]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/us/texas-officials-oppose-new-controls-despite-gun-smuggling-to-mexico.html

In the recent debate about stricter gun control, some Mexican and American officials saw a sliver of hope — that such laws might curb the flow of illegal weapons over the United States’ southern border.

“I hope that whatever we are going to do in trying to protect our gun rights but at the same time regulate the legal ownership of weapons is going to have a component on guns that are being smuggled out of the country so easily now and causing the carnage,” said Alonzo Peña, the former deputy director of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement who has also served as a Department of Homeland Security attaché at the United States Embassy in Mexico City.

But the national debate, coupled with the Obama administration’s proposals to tighten gun laws, has only fortified the ranks of Second Amendment proponents in Texas, who say the border states that are a main source for weapons in Mexico’s drug war are not responsible for the thousands of murders in that country since 2006.

After President Obama called last week for more background checks on potential gun purchasers and a ban on military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, Republican lawmakers immediately rebuked the White House’s efforts. Texas state lawmakers have already pushed proposals that would permit college students to carry weapons on campus and that would also open the door for gun-carrying marshals at primary schools.

<more>

But we will be told there is no Iron River from US gun dealers to Mexican Cartels.

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. we need to write more laws. yep.

[flamin lib]

4. Yep. We do. Universal background checks, limited magazines and in my opinion a complete

ban on all semi automatic weapons--long and short. But that's just one FFL's opinion.

[clffrdjk]

13. FUD FFL is that possible?

Do you specialize in $40,000 bolt actions and high end trap guns or are you that one guy in the Brady group that has an FFL?

[flamin lib]

14. No and no. I'm the guy who watched Sandy Hook unfold with a three year old girl on my lap.

From 9:30 to about 10:30 I kept repeating to myself that it was a jerk who was fired from a janitorial job there to revenge himself against the staff. About 10:30 they started saying there were children among the casualties and I thought, shit! the bastard shot a kid by accident. Finally late in the afternoon it was announced that 12 to 18 children were shot. We all know the rest.

We, as a country, are obsessed with guns. That's okay for the most part. But when I give it serious, thoughtful consideration I can see no need or reason for a civilian to be able to fire several hundred rounds a minute and be able to reload for another go at it in less than a second, firepower limited only by the number of magazines a shooter is able to carry.

Self defense? Get a good wheel gun My favorite is a S&W 357 with a 4" barrel tho I don't feel the need to carry.

Home defense? Shortest legal 12ga pump loaded with goose shot. 00 buck goes through walls with enough energy to kill, goose shot not so much but still enough to be fatal.

Competition shooting? Have the shooting club own and maintain the equipment just like the Military does.

As much as I'd personally like it, nobody is coming for your guns.

[clffrdjk]

15. Do you or do you not

Have a license to sell or make firearms for sale?

[flamin lib]

16. C&R. It's a FFL. Can't get a license to sell, no storefront. nt

[clffrdjk]

17. Duh, I forgot about C&R

Well if you decided to get rid of your firearms please sell them and don't destroy them.

[flamin lib]

21. Little too late. When I decided that civilians had no reason to own semi automatic weapons I

had the two pistols I own melted down to paperweights.

If I believe that civilians have no legitimate reason to possess semi auto weapons why would I sell them to another civilian?

If they were museum worthy I'd have found a repository to take them for display and educational purposes. They weren't. They were interesting for their place in technological development in time, but by no means of historical importance.

No, I purchased them in a time of lesser enlightenment and am willing to sacrifice the monitory loss for personal principal.

[oneshooter]

28. Have you now surrendered your C&R FFL to the BATFE?

[flamin lib]

29. No, why should I? nt

[oneshooter]

30. Because some posters have said that

FFL's are a part of the problem, that they have blood on thier hands because they profit from the sale of firearms.
That no true Democrat would ever have such a license as they are truly pro gun control.

Or so they have said.

[flamin lib]

32. Depends on the FFL. Is it Charlie's Gun Shop that's located just outside Chicago's city

limit that is responsible for a huge % of crime guns inside the city? I think that's the place, might be entirely wrong about name.

It's just like "gun enthusiasts". Not all of them are raging assholes but some are.

[iiibbb]

19. Do you object to me carrying a handgun with 15 rounds for feral dogs where I hunt?

Cuz I don't see a wheel gun as the best option for me.

[flamin lib]

22. Having killed any number if coyotes with a bolt action long gun up close and personal experience

tells me the first two or three are all ya' get a chance at. After that all you see is sphincters and then not too long. Are your dogs more stupid?

[iiibbb]

34. I dunno. Coyotes and feral dogs not being the

same thing at all.

Feral dogs will attack people en masse ... coyotes do what?

[Glaug-Eldare]

2. I'm far more concerned with the weapons being imported from Mexico.

Plucking out one twig isn't going to put out the fire in Mexico. Then again, dead Mexicans are fantastic for the gun controllers -- the more dead kids, the more bodies they can gloat over and use as excuses. The last thing they'd ever want to do is shut down the flow of corpses.

[flamin lib]

3. That conspiracy argument (gun violence oponents like dead kids) should be grounds for

confiscation of all weapons as it is clearly a sign of serious mental instability.

Keep talkin', the more people hear you the closer we get to meaningful gun violence abatement.

[Glaug-Eldare]

5. It's no conspiracy -- it's fundraising.

Gun control groups only have their payday when there are corpses to parade around. In the absence of attractive, endearing victims, they're forgotten by all but a handful of kooks. If your livelihood as an organization depends on never actually solving the problem of violence, what kind of measures are you going to push for?

Same reason NRA holds back whenever they have an opportunity to push -- a win of any real substance changes the status quo, and the status quo means money and power.

[flamin lib]

6. Guns in schools, data bases of the mentally ill (privacy anyone?), demonizing video games (and

then releasing a violent game for 4 year olds), opposing universal background checks, "assisting" legislators in writing laws to subvert existing gun control laws, proposing and writing Stand Your Ground Laws . . .

In case you're in need of a plexiostomy* I'm talking about the NRA and other gun advocate groups.


*A surgical procedure to place a plastic window in the abdomen so the patient can see where they are going.

[gejohnston]

7. actually, it isn't a violent game

it is target shooting at standard targets like at a range and skeet. How many four year olds have access to an iPad or iPhone? That is not the same as Hit Man or Call of Duty. Talk about false equivalency and dishonesty.
So, how does that compare to this one
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/index.php?title=Bullet_to_the_Head_of_the_NRA&diff=474323&oldid=prev

[flamin lib]

8. Couldn't make it play (Java?) but from the graphic I'd assume it wasn't aimed at 4 year olds.

Now, comparing something clearly aimed at adult audiences to a shooting game for 4 year olds is, as you said, false equivalency. Pull the beam from thine own eye before . . .

[gejohnston]

9. I haven't seen the one about being aimed at four year olds

I'm saying one is ISSF and skeet the other is murder. To me that is a big difference in itself. From what I can find it works only on the iOS.

[jpak]

12. LOL!

[rl6214]

10. The iron river is what the ATF is running

[jpak]

11. No - but continue playing make-believe

yup

[jimmy the one]

18. glaugs bag of tricks

glaug: It's no conspiracy -- it's fundraising. Gun control groups only have their payday when there are corpses to parade around.

Weird logic, twisted reasoning, ugly mindedness & BS all wrapped into a single garbage bag.
Center for disease control thrives on epidemics eh? bigger paydays, eh? a vaccine for gun disease can only be marginally effecive.
.. the nra is touting how many new members they're enrolled, 'payday', due the massacre at the connecticut school & proposed guncontrol solutions to prevent the furtherance thereof.

glaug, cont'd: In the absence of attractive, endearing victims, they're forgotten by all but a handful of kooks.

Guncontrol efforts, even at their lowest ebb during gwbush years, generally remained at parity with progun mind thought, pollwise. So your 'handful' is all gunworld has ever mustered, largely stoked by the fringe.
And you control the monopoly on kooks, search 'nra bd of directors'.

If your livelihood as an organization depends on never actually solving the problem of violence, what kind of measures are you going to push for?

.. you remind me of a child in grade school, creates a problem then goes nyah nyah nyah.
.. most guncontrol measures realistically seek only marginal improvement, too many guns caused by gunnut ideology.

[Glaug-Eldare]

20. Makes sense to me.

Bradys, MAIG, VPC, &c. are not like the CDC -- their funding does not come from the government (Thank God!), and they can continue their work regardless of the state of public health. The gun control groups cannot, and depend heavily on gun violence becoming a major news item. As for NRA, their increase in membership is a result of the anticipated gun control push. Yes, it's related to Sandy Hook, but it's more closely related to the predictable AWB and mag ban proposals.

I didn't say that only a tiny few will support gun control when polled -- I said that gun control is forgotten by all but a handful of kooks when it's not a major news story. People generally don't think about it or contribute money unless there's blood. NRA is a right-wing insane asylum, and I won't waste breath trying to defend the loons and villains on the BoD.

Most gun control measures are ineffective and seek to restrict and punish gun ownership altogether because it offends the grab nuts that anybody is allowed to have the things they hate. They do nothing to address gun violence associated with gangs and smugglers, or the deplorable state of mental health and addiction treatment in the USA. They just daydream that if I'm not allowed to own a handgun, suddenly West Baltimore will be safe again.

[jimmy the one]

23. disgraceful, glaug

glaug: Bradys, MAIG, VPC, &c.{gun control groups} are not like the CDC -- their funding does not come from the government (Thank God!), and they can continue their work regardless of the state of public health.

glaug, previously: It's no conspiracy -- it's fundraising. Gun control groups only have their payday when there are corpses to parade around.

My comparison was not with govt funding or lack thereof, it was with your macabre' contention that gun control groups thrived on gunshot corpses. Pls try not to blow so much smoke, it's annoying.

glaug: I didn't say that only a tiny few will support gun control when polled -- I said that gun control is forgotten by all but a handful of kooks when it's not a major news story. People generally don't think about it or contribute money unless there's blood.

It's more like guncontrol advocates & supporters have other things to devote their lives to rather than a fetish such as guns, whereas gunnuts tend to live & die for their right to keep & bear arms, anywhere, anykind, anyhow, anytime. So gunnuts win the zealotry prize for intensity.

Most gun control measures are ineffective and seek to restrict and punish gun ownership altogether because it offends the grab nuts that anybody is allowed to have the things they hate. They do nothing to address gun violence associated with gangs and smugglers, or the deplorable state of mental health and addiction treatment in the USA. They just daydream that if I'm not allowed to own a handgun, suddenly West Baltimore will be safe again.

Most gun control measures are MARGINALLY effective. Some gunctrol laws moreso - during a ten year (at least) time span of the DC handgun ban/trigger lock law, not one DC resident under the age of 15 was killed accidentally by a firearm, a stat which was surpassed by all the states.

The gun control groups cannot, and depend heavily on gun violence becoming a major news item.

The more I see & read of you, the more I think you a disgrace to the democrat party.

[Glaug-Eldare]

24. Maybe. I look forward to a change in the party line on RKBA.

Last edited Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Hopefully one that embraces civil liberties and real solutions to gun violence.

My comparison was not with govt funding or lack thereof, it was with your macabre' contention that gun control groups thrived on gunshot corpses. Pls try not to blow so much smoke, it's annoying.

Am I incorrect that the gun control groups receive far more contributions and attention when there are dead white people to exploit?

It's more like guncontrol advocates & supporters have other things to devote their lives to rather than a fetish such as guns, whereas gunnuts tend to live & die for their right to keep & bear arms, anywhere, anykind, anyhow, anytime. So gunnuts win the zealotry prize for intensity.

I'm glad the consistent zealots are on the RKBA side instead of the other. If only we had more zealots standing up year-round for the environment, healthcare, and education. I'm trying to broaden my horizons, but I'll readily admit that I haven't been as active as I should be in these more traditionally Democratic arenas.

Most gun control measures are MARGINALLY effective. Some gunctrol laws moreso - during a ten year (at least) time span of the DC handgun ban/trigger lock law, not one DC resident under the age of 15 was killed accidentally by a firearm, a stat which was surpassed by all the states.

I'll bet quite a few were killed on purpose. Southeast DC and PG County inside the beltway suffer from extreme gang and drug-related crime, particularly gun violence. It's nice that DC isn't suffering from accidental under-15 gun deaths, but the reason isn't a good one. It's not because DC is so much smarter or more peaceful than the rest of the country. It's because DC residents are denied a civil right by extreme cost and restricted availability. It's about as encouraging as if George Wallace boasted that not one Nigro in Dekalb County voted for Humphrey -- it wouldn't be because they preferred him, it would be because he prevented them from voting at all.

[jimmy the one]

25. glaug the misinformed

glaug: {high gun crime} It's because DC residents are denied a civil right by extreme cost and restricted availability.

This is more baloney from glaug. I lived in the DC area over 30 years, you obviously haven't.

.. prior to 2008 heller decision, pretty much since 1970, the firearms to residency rate in DC was about 20%, in other words about 100,000 rifles & shotguns & 'excepted handguns' per it's 550,000 residents. DC residents could & did own & use firearms, and used them. DC had a trigger lock law but rarely did that hamper legal use of firearms, indeed it saved lives as I metioned in that there were no accidental child <15yo deaths in a decade or more.
.. in other words glaug, if law abiding DC residents wanted to own a firearm, a rifle or shotgun which are the most popular guns in america comprising about 66% of national gunstock, THEY COULD.

.. Restricted availability of guns in DC you say?
DC is surrounded by two states, maryland & virginia, where guns are readily available. One of the easiest things is to smuggle handguns into DC from maryland, a bit more risky from virginia since you have to cross potomac river bridges. That is the problem, too many smuggled guns in DC from neighboring states.

DC does not have the death penalty, Md & Virginia do have the DP. Killers bring people in from Md or Va & execute them in DC to avoid the death penalty, or bring in dead bodies from those states & dump them in DC for same reason (tho technically invalid). Not that many interstate killings, maybe a dozen a year, but it inflates DC murder rates slightly. I knew a homeless guy who was shot like this & they dragged his body from just over the Md line into DC, a quarter mile.
DC is the ONLY city totally invested by two death penalty states or areas like this, in the entire country (that I am aware of).

The DC handgun ban was enabled in the 1970s, to enable police to arrest predominantly young black males weilding handguns, who were responsible for the predominance of DC crime & murder. This is accepted fact, often acknowledged by black DC officials.
The DC handgun ban was not to strip residents of some phony baloney right to keep & bear arms (which now emboldens gunnuts like in chicago), it was to deny perpetrators of violent crime the legal ability to possess handguns on their person. You & the nra, whether you disavow it or not, have fabricated some specious reasoning that DC residents want more handguns, when they'd have rather it had stayed status quo, since they're not out en masse purchasing handguns.

[Travis_0004]

26. Pehaps a lot of DC residents haven't bought handguns because the district makes it almost impossible

Here are the steps for me to get a gun. I walk into a gun store, take a look around, they do a background check, and in 20 minutes, assuming I pass the check, I walk out with a handgun.

Here are the steps to buy a handgun in DC:

Get a gun -- If you aren’t just registering a gun that you already own, I suggest picking out and buying your gun first because the ten-day waiting period begins on the purchase date. Make sure your final pick is on one of these three states’ lists, and that it comes with a magazine that holds no more than 10 rounds.

Transfer the gun -- Handguns have to go through a local federal firearms licensee (FFL). Call D.C.’s only legal gun dealer, Charles Sykes, and tell him you will be sending the firearm to his office. Phone is [phone]. Shotguns and rifles do not need to be transferred through a local FFL. They can then be shipped directly to you from the out-of-state dealer once you can show the registration certificate.

Get the forms -- Unfortunately, MPD has not put the forms you need online. Call the firearms registry office at [phone] and ask to have them send you the “application for firearm registration certificate” (they call it "PD-219&quot and the gun registration packet. For new guns, fill out the right side of the registration form and leave the left side for Mr. Sykes. Download the “statement of eligibility” form and fill it out. Be sure to answer “yes” on the 11th question if you haven’t lied on questions 1 to 10.

Take the online course -- Click on this link to watch the video about fundamentals, safety and local laws. It takes about 30 minutes to watch it. You might want to take notes in your registration packet for the written test. At the end, you print out the certificate, sign it and bring it with you to MPD.

Meet with Charles Sykes -- When your handgun arrives, Mr. Sykes will call you to make an appointment to fill out the registration form (PD-219). His office is in the same building as MPD, inside the entrance for the DMV on C Street. Bring his $125 fee in cash. He will have you fill out some forms and wait while he calls FBI for an instant background check. Take the gun’s receipt.

Apply to register at MPD -- If you already own a gun and just need to register, take the gun and all the forms to the registry office, which is inside the entrance of MPD headquarters at 300 Indiana Ave, NW. From Mr. Sykes’s office, take your gun upstairs one floor to the registration office. Bring with you the completed registration and eligibility forms, training course certificate, proof of residency (driver’s license) and identity (Social Security card).

Take the test -- The registry office administers a 20-question, written, multiple-choice test on the online course and the registration packet. MPD now allows you to look at the packet while taking the test, so you don’t need to memorize anything.

Get fingerprinted -- You’ll be asked to fill out a few more forms, then be photographed and fingerprinted.

Go to DMV - The registration office will be given a bill for $48 in fees. You have to take this downstairs to the DMV and pay the fee in cash. Once you have the receipt, go back to MPD, so they can complete your application.

Waiting period -- The registration office staff will tell you what day to come back for the end of the ten-day waiting period. It starts either the day you submit the registration certificate or when you purchased the gun, whichever is earliest. Be sure to show them your purchase receipt to get a shorter wait.

Return to MPD -- The day before your waiting period ends, you can call and ask if your application was approved. If so, call Mr. Sykes to make an appointment to meet to pick up the handgun. Go back to MPD to pick up the registration permit. Take the form to Mr. Sykes so he can release the gun to you. If you already own your gun or you are buying a rifle or shotgun, you can have the registration certificate mailed to you to save you the trip.

Pick up your gun -- Take the document downstairs to Mr. Sykes’s office, and he’ll release the gun to you. Check ahead of time to ensure your gun came with a lock and a case. If not, be sure to bring one to transport the gun home.

[jimmy the one]

27. handguns legal in DC & chicago over 2 years now

travis: 26. Pehaps a lot of DC residents haven't bought handguns because the district makes it almost impossible

You are very good at blowing smoke, that's for sure.

This silliness has absolutely nothing whatsover to do with the points I made in the post above yours.
Handguns are now legal in DC & chicago.
In chicago murder rate has spiked about 17% upwards along with more handguns increasing by several thousands, while in DC the murder rate has gone down slightly.

Are you saying that handguns being hard to get might have been a reason murder rate in DC has gone down slightly? or what? what are you driving at here travis?
It's been four years now since handgun ban lifted in DC and two years in chicago, what you driving at?
.. other than reading too much from the 2nd Amendment Mythology bible?

MORE GUNS MORE LIES.

[Glaug-Eldare]

31. A couple of corrections.

The death penalty has been suspended in Maryland since 2006.

I referred to the restricted availability of legal guns in DC. There is a single FFL in the city willing to do transfers, which creates an absurd bottleneck and lack of choice.

The handgun ban did not deny perpetrators of violent crime the legal ability to possess handguns -- it denied every resident the legal ability to possess handguns.

[ileus]

33. Not to worry Americans are grabbing up all the AK's and AR's for their own personal use.