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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:46 PM Jan 2013

Firearms ARSENAL licensing, brady bill rules

In the late 1900's there existed such a thing as firearm arsenals (superceded recently by 'my collection of valuable guns').
States imposed taxes on firearm arsenals, such as maybe $100 per 25 gun arsenal, or 10 gun arsenal, etc, which identified you as possessing an inordinate number of firearms, as well as being, um, moreso suspect re certain things.
.. well a blast from the past, here's what I found agooglin', and note, you can & could legitmately, own an arsenal of guns, as long as you were legit in the following ways:

1994 - the Brady Bill: SEC. 204. FEDERAL ARSENAL LICENSE.
(a) Offense.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 203(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
&quot x) It shall be unlawful for a person to possess more than 20 firearms or more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition unless the person--
&quot 1) is a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer;
or
&quot 2) has been issued an arsenal license pursuant to section 923(m).".

......(b) Arsenal License.--Section 923 of title 18, United States Code..
(1) The Secretary shall issue an arsenal license if--
(A) the applicant has--&quot i) filed a sworn application with the Secretary, stating--
... &quot I) the applicant's name, address, and date of birth;
... &quot II) that the applicant is at least 21 years of age; and
... &quot III) that the applicant is not prohibited from possessing or receiving a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;

&quot ii) filed with the Secretary a certificate, dated within the previous 60 days, from the chief law enforcement officer of the applicant's State of residence, stating that the applicant has not exhibited such a propensity for violence, instability, or disregard of the law as may render the applicant's possession of an arsenal a danger to the community; and

&quot iii) paid an arsenal license fee of $300 for a 3-year license period; and
&quot B) the Secretary has determined that the information in the application is accurate, based in part upon name- and fingerprint-based research in all available Federal, State, and local recordkeeping systems.
&quot 2) The holder of an arsenal license shall be subject to all obligations and requirements pertaining to licensed dealers under this chapter.".


Note this is a pro gun website so I don't vouch for veracity, but appears kosher, but dunno if it's still in force: http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/brady2.html

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Firearms ARSENAL licensing, brady bill rules (Original Post) jimmy the one Jan 2013 OP
it can't be any worse than some other blogsites that are posted. discussion is open. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2013 #1
That was a proposed bill some call 'Brady 2' that apparently died in committee. n/t PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #2
From what I can remember... Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #3
1,000 rounds is an arsenal? holdencaufield Jan 2013 #4
guns & ammo a neat hobby, eh? jimmy the one Jan 2013 #7
"Yes, it was once considered an arsenal" holdencaufield Jan 2013 #10
Yeah, times have changed. Clames Jan 2013 #11
Stupid law Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #5
no, gejohnston Jan 2013 #6
Actually, you answered your own statement holdencaufield Jan 2013 #15
As the others have said... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #8
more explanation needed jimmy the one Jan 2013 #9
The link you provided... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #12
never was law bossy22 Jan 2013 #13
An "arsenal" tax is asinine Pullo Jan 2013 #16
Probably unconstitutional as written. SayWut Jan 2013 #14

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)
3. From what I can remember...
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:56 PM
Jan 2013

...this particular bill never made it out of committee and was never voted on. Dumbass idea anyways.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
7. guns & ammo a neat hobby, eh?
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:12 PM
Jan 2013
particular bill never made it out of committee and was never voted on. Dumbass idea anyways.

Thanks for the input folks; so it died in committee, eh? well there were indeed arsenal laws in some states as I mentioned, prior to this 1994 brady bill brady bill attempt. (But nothing else came up on google).

holdencaufield 4. 1,000 rounds is an arsenal?
I thought it was a long-weekend. How about hedge against inflation?


This is the mindset I was driving at.
Yes, it was once considered an arsenal, that & 20 guns, but is now considered a 'neat hobby'.

.. jimmy fallon, on his late night tv show, where he sometimes writes letters to people or groups 'thanking them' via 'thank you' notes which he speaks orally, wrote a thank you note to beer advertisers:

jimmy the fallon: Thank you, microbreweries {beer advertisers}, for making my alcoholism seem like a neat hobby." -- Jimmy Fallon

He should write one to the nra, and winchester ammunition, as per holden caufield.

Thank you nra, for making my unnatural gun fetish seem like a neat hobby.
 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
10. "Yes, it was once considered an arsenal"
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:07 AM
Jan 2013

When? And by whom?

I'm over fifty and I don't remember a time when a $50 worth of .22lr was considered an "arsenal".

"Thank you nra, for making my unnatural gun fetish seem like a neat hobby."

Personally, I don't think any hobby becomes a fetish until you do it in a latex zentai -- which would make it REALLY hard to aim.

 

Clames

(2,038 posts)
11. Yeah, times have changed.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:38 AM
Jan 2013

In 1900 there wasn't exactly mass production of firearms like what came about in WW1 and WW2. Two periods of dramatic and rapid industrial technology advances. Now with practically automated CNC cells that can produced hundreds of precise, identical parts and many classic firearms becoming more and more collectible it really isn't considered an arsenal of 10 or 20 firearms. Even of just a single type like the M1 Garand, which is extremely collectible and doesn't require an FFL to purchase from some sources. Are you one of the few around here who are proud of their technical ignorance?

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
5. Stupid law
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:59 PM
Jan 2013

Since when is 1000 rounds of ammo an arsenal?

I bought 1000 rounds of .22 for under 50 bucks, and easily picked it up in one hand.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
6. no,
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:00 PM
Jan 2013

this was part of Brady two that was never passed. Since it has nothing to do with public safety, I fail to see the value of hassling competitive shooters with the ammo limit or collectors. Parts of the original Brady Bill was struck down as violating the 10A in the 1990s.

 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
15. Actually, you answered your own statement
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jan 2013
"I fail to see the value of hassling competitive shooters with the ammo limit or collectors."

The value, in the eyes of the bill's sponsors was precisely that -- harassment.

No one -- even the most fervent anti-gun zealot -- believes that the 2nd Amendment can be repealed or seriously impacted in one go. However, over time, the rights can be impeded in such a way to make the intent and purpose of the amendment moot.

People on both sides of this issue need to settle in for a LONG struggle.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
9. more explanation needed
Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:42 PM
Jan 2013

disntnt: ...Brady 2 never made it. Here's a link to chapter 44 of title 18:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-44

Looked at it for 15 minutes but don't see what you're driving at, please link more specifically, thanks.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,479 posts)
12. The link you provided...
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 12:54 AM
Jan 2013

...was to the changes proposed to the law (Brady 2) which were not passed into law.

The link I provided was to the law as it is today.
It is quite long, detailed and kind of boring.

I wasn't driving at anything, I was just adding firm evidence to what is and is not now law.
Purely reference.

bossy22

(3,547 posts)
13. never was law
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:02 AM
Jan 2013

it was a proposed bill in the 90's, never went anywhere

Also- I have many issues with the "1000" round requirement. the media loves to play into sensationlism with lines like "and there was over a 1000 rounds of ammunition in his home". The truth is that statement is silly unless you know the type of ammunition. If you said 1000 rounds of 50 BMG, yea i'd be a little suspicious of the guy, but if its a 1000 rounds of .22LR, i wouldn't blink. The reason being that 22LR most commonly comes in the form of a 500 round "brick". To show you

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_216951_999_01?rgn=0,0,1561,2000&scl=3.8095238095238093&fmt=jpeg&id=298-S0-oU4DkutulndFT3P

It is about the same size as a large coffee mug. So 2 of them would be more than 1000 rounds. Not that impressive when you see it in person

Pullo

(594 posts)
16. An "arsenal" tax is asinine
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 09:12 PM
Jan 2013

The whole point of laws like an arsenal tax is just to make LEGAL gun ownership as big of a pain in the ass as possible. I mean, by advocating laws like that, people legitimize the NRA's hyperbolic rhetoric.

 

SayWut

(153 posts)
14. Probably unconstitutional as written.
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 10:45 AM
Jan 2013

"&quot m)(1) The Secretary shall issue an arsenal license if--

&quot A) the applicant has--

&quot i) filed a sworn application with the Secretary, stating--

&quot I) the applicant's name, address, and date of birth;

&quot II) that the applicant is at least 21 years of age; and

&quot III) that the applicant is not prohibited from possessing
or receiving a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;

&quot ii) filed with the Secretary a certificate, dated within the
previous 60 days, from the chief law enforcement officer of the
applicant's State of residence, stating that the applicant has not
exhibited such a propensity for violence, instability, or disregard
of the law as may render the applicant's possession of an arsenal a
danger to the community; and
"

See Printz v. United States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States


Added for brevity.

"Opposition by National Rifle Association

After the Brady Act was originally proposed in 1987, the National Rifle Association (NRA) mobilized to defeat the legislation, spending millions of dollars in the process. While the bill eventually did pass in both chambers of the United States Congress, the NRA was able to win an important concession: the final version of the legislation provided that, in 1998, the five-day waiting period for handgun sales would be replaced by an instant computerized background check that involved no waiting periods.[15]

The NRA then funded lawsuits in Arizona, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Texas, Vermont and Wyoming that sought to strike down the Brady Act as unconstitutional. These cases wound their way through the courts, eventually leading the U.S. Supreme Court to review the Brady Act in the case of Printz v. United States.

In Printz, the NRA argued that the Brady Act was unconstitutional because its provisions requiring local law enforcement officers to conduct background checks was a violation of the 10th Amendment to the Constitution (Brief Amicus Curiae of the National Rifle Association of America in Support of Petitioners, Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898, 1997). Based on these grounds, the NRA told the Court "the whole Statute must be voided."

In its 1997 decision in the case, the Supreme Court ruled that the provision of the Brady Act that compelled state and local law enforcement officials to perform the background checks was unconstitutional on 10th amendment grounds. The Court determined that this provision violated both the concept of federalism and that of the unitary executive. However, the overall Brady statute was upheld and state and local law enforcement officials remained free to conduct background checks if they so chose. The vast majority continued to do so.[16] In 1998, background checks for firearm purchases became mostly a federally run activity when NICS came online, although many states continue to mandate state run background checks before a gun dealer may transfer a firearm to a buyer.".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act

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