Should you have to tell a police officer you're carrying a gun?

[ellisonz]

11:08 PM, Jan. 26, 2012
Written by
Paul E. Kostyu

Last year, Ohioans got permission from state lawmakers to carry their guns into bars, restaurants, nightclubs, shopping malls and sports arenas.

Now, there’s an effort to loosen gun restrictions even more.

State Rep. Ron Maag, R-Salem Twp., doesn’t think gun permit holders need to warn police officers when they have a gun, whether in a motor vehicle or walking down the street.

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“Honestly, I don’t know what has gotten into the head of Rep. Maag,” said Carl Weitz III, 22 of Westwood. “Guns are legal and they are part of our Constitution. I understand this point of view. For anyone to declare that citizens shouldn’t need to inform law enforcers that they are carrying a concealed weapon is absolutely ridiculous. Bills like these weaken my faith in humanity.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120126/NEWS010801/301250169/Should-tell-police-officer-m-carrying-gun-?odyssey=nav|head

Should you have to tell a police officer you're carrying a gun?

[Turbineguy]

1. Personally I prefer:

"I'm not guilty and I won't do it again!"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Its the rational thing to do

They can generally get to theirs a lot faster than you can and their safety comes first in their minds

[ileus]

3. If you're required to.

I've been road checked a dozen or so times. Checked by the dnr 3 or 4 times. I've stood and chatted dozens of time with deputies and troopers, and at least one FBI agent no problems. I don't notify...it's not required

[Starboard Tack]

8. "I've been road checked a dozen or so times. Checked by the dnr 3 or 4 times"

What do you mean by road checked? And what is dnr?

[ileus]

11. DUI / License check points

they set up every few weekends here in the county....normally trying to snag DUI's and drugs.

DNR : Department of Natural Resources (game wardens)

[tularetom]

4. I'm not sure you have to tell a police officer anything

Of course the concept of "probable cause" can be stretched pretty far.

[Callisto32]

5. What do you mean, "warn"?

That piece is biased in the first 3 sentences.

Way to go, modern journalism.

[Callisto32]

6. No.

If I am not going to draw the weapon, it makes no difference.
If I intend to do harm, I will not inform, regardless of the state of the law.

Requiring this would be nothing but pointless, feel-good thinking.

[doc03]

7. I don't know for sure but we were told in CCW class when the OHP runs your

Last edited Fri Jan 27, 2012, 10:38 PM - Edit history (1)

plates they are notified you have the CCW permit. We were told to put both hands on the wheel and to notify the patrolman if you are carrying or not. I see no problem with that myself. As far as on the street I don't see why you would walk up to an officer and declare you have a weapon.

[petronius]

9. I would consider it a reasonable requirement for a CCWer when a firearm is present and

an officer has a legal reason to detain and question the person (not to mention a sensible way to avoid confusion), but I'd offer two caveats:

First, the timing and method of the requirement should be quite specific - no "immediately" or "quickly" wording that would give wiggle-room for charges of non-compliance. Perhaps it could be required as part of the answer to "may I see your ID."

Secondly, I'd expect police to be very well-trained in the laws about CCW and how to respond to meeting one. The mere act of carrying should not be allowed to substantially affect the officer's response to, treatment of, or demeanor toward the person...

[YllwFvr]

12. expect officers to be trained in ccw laws

And you are bound to be disappointed.

I also agree a firearm shouldn't change anything, an officer is told to always assume there is a firearm, and the officer always brings one on scene anyway.

I discourage gun carriers from informing.

[ellisonz]

25. "I discourage gun carriers from informing."

That's a horrible idea.

[friendly_iconoclast]

27. Why? *Not* assuming the person they are speaking with may be armed is poor practice.

And frankly, CCW permitees are less dangerous to the general public than cops are...

[YllwFvr]

30. Ive informed several times

Most went smoothly. Once I was removed from my vehicle and disarmed. The officer dismantled my pistol then chewed me out for fifteen minutes or so. Why do I need to carry? Who do I think I am? He claimed I was breaking several laws but wouldn't be charging me. He was full of shit.
When I was let go he told me if I carried again I would be put in jail. I've known another fellow who informed and had the officer draw on him and the cop said if he moved his brains would be blown out.

A state trooper vet told me there are assholes in every profession. There are just more in this job because bullies are drawn to the authority of the shield.

Now I'm the one doing traffic stops and I've seen carriers treated like criminals. Id like to think that as a fellow gun enthusiast I treat them better than most would.

Inform if it is required by law. If its not, I don't suggest it. I feel its more likely to cause a problem.

[Slimmm1]

66. When stoped

Her in ca I found the chp to be realy trained in this was stop 3 time in the time I had my ccw and every time they told me thank you for letting them no and never asked for the gun and was let off with no ticket as hard as the chp are in ca they were realy thank full I took the time to let them no

[X_Digger]

10. I don't think there should be an 'immediate' or 'timely' notification, no..

Especially not if it ends up like this..

In Texas, I am required to inform an officer when asked for ID, but there is no penalty for not doing so.

[Glassunion]

15. ^^^^this^^^^

This is exactly why you should not have to notify.

99% of police officers are great. I should not have to put my freedom, dignity or safety into the hands of a 1% not so great police officer.

Perhaps I'm jaded, because of my experiences with the police. But put yourself in my shoes. Imagine being a black man who has to tell a police officer "oh by the way, I'm carrying a gun". Honestly think about how that scenario would play out.

I must keep in mind that I do not have the same experiences that the majority of other Americans have.

But...
I have been "stopped and frisked" without cause on more than one occasion.
I have been detained at sobriety checkpoints while completely sober.
Before I could afford to move my mother out of the shitty neighborhood she lived in, I would get pulled over at least 3 out of every 5 times I went to see her. The police would get upset when you called them by name because you knew it from so many experiences with them.

But again I ask that you play out the scenario in your mind where a black person has to notify an officer that they are licensed to carry a firearm and that they have a firearm on their person. Is that worth having to notify for everyone?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

42. Just for the record...

...profiling is an awful practice. That's at the top of my 'reform the Nazis list'.

I believe sobriety check points do not meet the standard of "probable cause".

Why would anyone stand a better chance of being pulled over if they were a minority driving a black pickup and wearing a t-shirt than someone wearing a blazer and riding in the back of a gray stretch Lincoln?

The police are quasi-military organizations. Such structures are more susceptible to the tendencies identified in the Milgram experiment due to the integrated authority structure.

[Glassunion]

58. Or the Stanford Experiment nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

59. You know what they say...

...about power.

[Fredjust]

64. and this is why...

I'm a strong advocate for taking weapons (both lethal and non-lethal) away from police. Maybe let their supervisors carry tazers, but for the rest, lock their weapons up at the station like British police. Maybe if they didn't have their death spewers to fall back on so easily, they would treat ALL people with a little more respect.

[NewMoonTherian]

71. Now HERE is a commonsense gun control proposal!

For all those in favor of stronger gun control, here it is. I, one of the most radical pro-gun advocates you're ever likely to meet, approve wholeheartedly of this measure, and will fight alongside you to see it passed.

[NewMoonTherian]

70. You have a VERY generous opinion of the police.

Especially considering your experiences.

I wouldn't go so far as to completely flip your ratio, but I think that would be closer to the truth.

[safeinOhio]

13. One more thing

that should be up to each state.

[pipoman]

14. I agree completely..

doesn't happen too often.

(edit--in this group)

[SteveW]

28. I agree with you on this one. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

16. Doesn't make any real difference.

Just because someone doesn't inform an officer that they are armed does NOT mean that the officer will assume that they are unarmed. Officers assume that everyone is armed until they know otherwise. "Know" does not mean "believe", it means KNOW.

As a matter of courtesy I do inform officers that I am armed if the situation is such that the officer has asked for my ID. Otherwise I don't bother.

[mvccd1000]

17. No - the police already assume you're armed until they can verify otherwise.

Of course, I generally open carry, which renders it a moot point in my case.

[COLGATE4]

18. This is already the law

in Alaska. Motorists stopped by the cops must immediately announce the presence of any firearms on them or in the vehicle.

[safeinOhio]

19. By informing a LEO you have a permit and

are carrying, you can prevent having his gun screwed into your ear. Ask any cop. Not only are they trained to expect everyone to be carrying, they are also good at noticing any lump under your shirt or on your belt.

[gejohnston]

20. or fishing vest

for some reason. I don't carry, but I do wear fishing vests for phone, camera stuff, etc. That was the first question asked when I getting a "fix it" ticket a while back.

[safeinOhio]

21. Lots of police training films

about routine pull overs for fix it type stops where the person pulls a gun and shoots the cop. They carry for their own protection and if they think they see a gun under your shirt, you will be pulled out, thrown to the ground with a knee on your neck. While beating the shit out of you they will be yelling "stop resisting". Some cops are nice and well trained, others aren't, but just like a citizen that carries for that unsuspecting situation, cops are ready for anything. I suggest you tell them you have a gun in the car or on your person right off the bat.

I only carry with deep conceal. I have a small 32 belly gun that I have made into a wallet for my back pocket. I also have a "Thunderwear holster" I carry with wearing over size pleated pants. I carry a 9mm glock that can't be made out, but I do get lots of smiles from the ladies. I have a leather vest made for carry, but like most conceal things, the weight of the weapon makes it lean to one side and I hate that.

Cops do not like surprises.

[mvccd1000]

26. Not everywhere...

if they think they see a gun under your shirt, you will be pulled out, thrown to the ground with a knee on your neck. While beating the shit out of you they will be yelling "stop resisting".

This seems to be the case back east more than in the west (California excepted, of course).

Ask anyone who's been pulled over in Arizona while openly carrying, concealed carrying, partly-concealed carrying, or any other type of carrying: when's the last time they had a gun screwed in their ear simply for having a gun? Probably right around..... never.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. You know that doesn't happen right?

I've been stopped. Officer asked me if I had a gun in my waistband, I answered affirmative.

Only problem was in logistics of handing it over to him, given that I didn't want to remove it from the holster, but had to remove the holster from my body. Got it done though. Cop put the gun on the hood, completed the interview, decided I wasn't the shoplifter someone described, gave me my gun and wished me a nice day.

[safeinOhio]

34. Doesn't happen?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-fu-with-me-cop-threatens-concealed-carry-gun-owner-during-traffic-stop/

[AtheistCrusader]

35. This occurred in a state with ambiguity in the law

around informing a police officer about your firearm. No ambiguity here. No such news stories from here.

Officer Daniel Harless, which you just referenced, was fired for that video. 3 other videos of him threatening suspects has arisen since. He was a shitbag, and that incident did NOT reflect department training policy.

[liberal_biker]

38. Ambiguity in the law had nothing to do with Harless.

Harless was an asshole. Sadly, he's not an uncommon type of police officer.

It doesn't matter how clear the law is - there will always be thugs with badges who think they should be virtually worshiped by mere peons.

[burf]

36. Yep it does happen.

Jerks with a badge like Former Officer Harless are out there and they need to be fired just like he was. But, it shouldn't take as long as it did. If he is as he has claimed suffering from PTSD, what the heck was he doing being a credible source testifying at a murder trial after the incident?

It appears that the local government is unhinged in Canton. Shortly after the Harless incident, one of the Councilmen went on a local talk radio show and here it is:

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/07/27/canton-ohio-councilman-goes-on-anti-concealed-carry-rant-after-his-officers-caught-on-tape/

If the councilman reflects the attitude of the majority of the public servants of Canton, no wonder stuff like Harless' actions go on. Whoever hired or covered for Harless should be fired and those elected officials like the councilman should be not only not reelected, but run out of town on a rail.

[safeinOhio]

40. Ex wife was a cop

and the first thing she did when pulled over(happened all the time) while not on duty was to tell the officer that she had a gun in her purse.

[ErikO]

43. Here in Missouri

we do not have to tell the cops when we have a gun. If asked, I still tell the truth. If not asked, well, there ya go!


Is it a good idea to inform? Typically, yes. Should there be a requirement to do so? I do not think so. When there is no law stating that you have to immediately inform, you avoid crap like what Harless pulled.

[spin]

86. Perhaps in Ohio ...

Most cops here in Florida don't view citizens that legally carry firearms as a serious threat. As far as detecting that I was carrying a firearm, I have talked to several police officers who I don't believe realized that I had a .38 snub nosed revolver in my pants pocket. These incidents all involved conversations in stores or on the street and did not involve a traffic stop or questions about any criminal incident.

An officer did ask me one time in a gun store if I had a concealed weapons permit for the Benchmade model 710 folding knife that was visibly clipped on my pocket. This struck me as strange as the knife was definitely not concealed. I just showed him my permit and didn't waste my time explaining my interpretation of the law to him. The knife law in Florida is somewhat ambiguous but with a concealed weapons permit you can carry a concealed knife as well as other weapons. In many states you can have a permit to carry a firearm but can't carry a concealed knife.

Several years ago I was stopped for an expired license tag and when I showed the officer my driver's license I also handed him my concealed weapons permit. He glanced at it and handed it back without any comment. He was very polite and helpfully explained to me what I needed to do to get my license tag updated.

[jeepnstein]

88. It's not big deal, really.

I always ask when I approach a vehicle, as a part of asking for driver's license and insurance info. The driver either says yes or no. That's the end of it. Most CCW holders you run into won't have their weapon on them. It's kind of a dumb thing but compared to the days when everyone had to lie about it the current state of affairs is a breath of fresh air.

Most folks with volunteer the information. You can gauge how tightly they are wound by what they say. Some people really go to extremes to try to take control of the stop when in fact that just isn't going to happen.

[rrneck]

22. Only if you plan to shoot him with it. nt

[aikoaiko]

23. Should I have to? No. But if it is the law I will comply.

In GA, I don't have to and I don't.

I just don't see enough good coming from requiring this self-disclosure..

[Logical]

24. NO YOU SHOULD NOT!

[DWC]

29. Only if asked. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

60. yes, I think this would be appropriate. IF asked then, don't lie. --

I want to agree with the video below. It would seem that handing over your license and permit to carry is good faith that an honorable officer has pulled you over.

However, what to do when pulled over by someone masquerading as an officer . . .

Women, especially, need to be aware of this as a possible scenario.

I hope that by the time the officer has approached my car that
I have made a correct determination and that, in fact, I have been pulled over by a legitimate and honorable officer.

[AtheistCrusader]

31. In Washington, we don't unless the officer specifically asks us.

A good balance.

[Kennah]

65. Technically, we don't have to if the officer asks ...

... but lying to the police when asked a direct question isn't a very good idea.

Once I told and didn't get a ticket. Another time I told and did get a ticket. Not exhaustive data, but I don't believe it will prevent one from getting a ticket, which is an argument I have heard.

My standard of behavior is this:
- If one is in a state where you must tell, then you tell.
- If not, then unless the officer is about to find out--like if you're asked to step from the vehicle or told that you're to be patted down--don't tell. If asked a direct question, don't lie.

If you must tell, or do tell, use this language which came from Mas Ayoob.

"Officer, I have a license to carry, and I do have it on me. What do you want me to do?"

The officer knows it's not a license to carry pizzas to and fro, and the officer knows what "it" is.

[burf]

33. Here is a method of notifying from

somebody who knows.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/27/tips-when-stopped-by-police/

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. good advice

I hope you don't get knocked for the link.

[Simo 1939_1940]

62. First time I've heard Massad speak. (have read plenty)

He's honest, has real-world experience, is amiable - and has an authoritative voice to boot!

[burf]

63. He is also a hell of a shot.

Which is good in his line of work!

The thing about notification is it may not be required by law, but the way I see it is as a professional courtesy. Particularly when dealing with an inexperienced officer.

But the other side of the coin is, if I am going to deal with him/her is a professional manner, I expect the same courtesy.

Not rocket science.

[ObamaFTW2012]

37. What I usually do

when having an official interaction with a police officer, whether I am legally obligated or not, is inform the officer that I am legally armed. If at a traffic stop, I notify the officer verbally while handing my CWP to him with my driver's license. I keep my hands visible, and I immediately follow by asking the officer how he/she would like to proceed.

Most officers respond courteously and professionally. They ask what I have, and where it's located, and then they will usually say something like, "OK, just keep it there until we're through." I had one officer ask to see my 1911, and that was only because he's into guns like I am, so he was curious. He mentioned that he disliked his issued Glock 22 for the same reason I dislike Glocks - because they feel like toys. It was a surreal moment. Not only did I not get ticketed for speeding (he got me for sure), nor for the expired tag on my truck (really more the tax assessor's fault than mine), but I got to walk away from an official interaction with a police officer where I was armed and I didn't get hassled.



While I don't believe anyone should be legally obligated to inform, I don't disagree with doing so as a gesture of good faith to the officer.

[ellisonz]

46. Lucky you.

What reaction would a police officer be entitled to have if he legally stopped you, you did not inform, and a weapon was discovered on your person?

[liberal_biker]

47. Depends on the state.

If you were stopped for speeding - the most common reason anyone has interaction with law enforcement - there's no reason he should discover one on you. If you're legally carrying and your state does not require you inform the officer, there really isn't anything the cop can do - and frankly, unless you draw it, there's nothing he SHOULD be able to do.

[ObamaFTW2012]

57. Most of the cops I've met

just didn't care about my guns either way. Their only concern was that my guns stay secured (holstered, etc). Being armed has generally not been an issue for them.

Of course, being polite and respectful, and having all necessary paperwork in order, certainly made our meetings go smoother too.

[ManiacJoe]

48. If you are transitioning from conversation to being searched...

... prior to the search starting is a good time to inform the officer of any weapons. No one likes surprises.

[ObamaFTW2012]

56. I agree

and in SC, that is the law. If I am having an official interaction with an LEO, I must inform him under SC statutes. Regardless of the state and the law, I would always inform an officer of any weapons I have the moment I find out I am going to be searched.

[ObamaFTW2012]

55. In SC?

Charge me with failure to notify.

[Union Scribe]

54. If I carried that would be my position, too.

Reasonable and respectful

[TPaine7]

39. Why would a gun permit holder "warn" a police officer?

The idea is silly, unless the permittee wanted to commit suicide by cop. That would be the only reason anyone would warn a police officer before initiating violence.

Now if Paul Kostyu was referring to informing a police officer that one is armed, that too is silly.

"Officer, I have a gun."

"Officer, I am 8th dan or above in 6 martial arts and I train SpecOps for a living. I can kill you dozens of ways before you can access your gun or radio."

Neither of those facts is relevant, unless of course the person is not planning to cooperate, in which case see my first point. Why would they "warn" the officer (but for suicide by cop)?

Some police forces are spooked by anyone else having power and want to know about it. They have gotten their concerns written into law. But the entire idea is silly. A person who will tell a cop they have a weapon isn't a serious threat in the vast majority of cases. A person bent on shooting a cop--concealed carry holder or not--will typically signify that fact by way of actual gunfire.

I guess the law makes Kostyu and ellisonz feel good and comforts cops who haven't thought things through. It also helps politicians say "look, I did something"--as they run for re-election. Aren't those the real purposes of laws?

[benEzra]

41. Living in a state that requires me to interrupt an officer who's talking to me

to tell her something she/he probably already knows, I'll say that it's a useless requirement. The people who are a threat to officers aren't going to notify them, and those of us with CHL's are already flagged as CHL's when they run our plates at checkpoints or whatever.

Having said that, a CHL in this state does mean the officer is dealing with much more of known quantity. The typical response to my "Excuse me, officer, but I'm required to inform you that I hold a carry license and have a firearm" is a friendly "OK, thanks for letting me know" while they continue to go about their business.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

44. Seems smarter than being a wise-ass "I don't have to" libertarian sorts

because when an officer sees someone is armed they're entitled to their safety. I think it's pretty well established police can handcuff people not under arrest just to control numbers, etc. As they are more prone to meeting dangerous people and they attract the wrong sort of attention being smart and proactively telling them should be a common courtesy. If they see you holding and you didn't tell them then you leave your intentions to their imagination. Guns are not playthings. Responsible owners have every right to carry but part of being responsible is proactively guarding against potentially unsafe situations.

[ellisonz]

45. Wise answer.

[Remmah2]

49. Are you saying you now approve of concealed carry? nt

nt

[ellisonz]

50. I never said I disapproved.

I'm a moderate. I disapprove of concealed carry in places like schools, hospitals, bars, political rallies etc. I don't disapprove of it in principle. I think we need a better regulatory scheme to make sure that the people we're allowing to CCW are qualified and I think those that violate the law should be held to account.

If you can show me where I said I disapproved of concealed carry in general please do so...but I'm betting you can't, because I'm pretty careful about what I say on all issues.

[oneshooter]

51. Please expand on this..................

"better regulatory scheme to make sure that the people we're allowing to CCW are qualified"

What type of regulatory scheme would you prefer?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[ellisonz]

52. I'll await an answer from Remmah.

That debate has already occurred in thousands of posts across dozens of threads. I'll pass.

[oneshooter]

53. nailing jello, again. Did not expect any better of you.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. Isn't that information already available to the cop when he runs your license plate?

[PavePusher]

76. Depends on the state.

Some states have the CCW database linked to the DMV records, some don't.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

78. ok and let me just say that - as an honest, tax-paying citizen I have no issue with presenting

my CCW card along with my driver's license if ever I am pulled over by a legitimate cop. Full disclosure.

[PavePusher]

84. Sounds good to me... if...

the officer has to first disclose her/his history of complaints filed and administrative actions taken, perhaps with a release of their past five performance evaluations. Full disclosure.... I want to know who I'm dealing with.

But seriously, there are two types of armed people. One type are a danger to police, and will not disclose their status willingly, the other is not a danger to officers, and thus disclosure is a waste of time.

Since I don't know what type of officer I'm dealing with, and may be required to do things that could be misinterpreted as a threat, I chose to inform, but I do not feel that a law that can not be enforced is a good law to pass.

No. More. Inventing. Crimes.

No. More.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

85. more laws = more crimes.

[Oneka]

68. Should you have to tell a police officer you're carrying a gun?

Short answer: No, it's not his business unless i am committing a crime with it, in which case he will likely have seen it.
I should never be required to inform a police officer, of any lawful activity, i am engaged in, for any reason.

That being said, in MN where i live, permit, holders are required to inform an officer,only, IF he/she asks.

Subd. 1b.Display of permit; penalty.

(a) The holder of a permit to carry must have the permit card and a driver's license, state identification card, or other government-issued photo identification in immediate possession at all times when carrying a pistol and must display the permit card and identification document upon lawful demand by a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1. A violation of this paragraph is a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) A citation issued for violating paragraph (a) must be dismissed if the person demonstrates, in court or in the office of the arresting officer, that the person was authorized to carry the pistol at the time of the alleged violation.

(c) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder must write a sample signature in the officer's presence to aid in verifying the person's identity.

(d) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder shall disclose to the officer whether or not the permit holder is currently carrying a firearm.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714

[oneshooter]

69. In Texas we are required to notify officers only if we are carrying on our body.

In Texas you may carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle, if it is not on your body, without a license. This is because in Texas your vehicle is considered an extension of your home.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Meiko]

72. Here in

Arizona you are required to present your CCW when the officer asks you for ID. I look at it this way. Given the attitude of our police officers today I don't want any misunderstandings. I don't want to get shot because some Steven Segal type overreacted at a traffic stop and shot me because he suddenly perceived a threat. The best way to avoid confrontations with police is to avoid misunderstandings or do something they see as a threat.

In my interactions with Arizona cops I have always informed them I was carrying a weapon and I would have done so even if it wasn't the law. I am concerned about the officers safety and more importantly I am concerned about mine. He can get to his gun faster than I can get to mine. The cops reactions have varied from "whatever" to "keep your hands in plain sight" I have never been asked to surrender my weapon.

Should it be a law that you must inform cops that you have a gun? I would defer that back to the individual states to decide but personally I would say no, it shouldn't be a law. Of course there is always this scenerio..Joe Schmo is walking down the street in shorts with a fanny pack,his gun is in the pack, his ID is also in the fanny pack. The cop stop him and ask him for ID, what does he do?

Now you all can do whatever you want but I am going to tell the officer about the gun before my hands go anywhere near that fanny pack.

[mvccd1000]

73. Outdated info?

What's this "CCW" of which you speak? That permission slip from your government is no longer required to carry (except in liquor license establishments), so how could I present one?

Personally, I always inform as well... I was known to get a few speeding tickets in my younger days, so had plenty of interaction with police. I always found that polite and cooperative was the best way through the meeting for both of us.

[PavePusher]

75. The permit is still issued, for inter-state reciprocity purposes...

and it allows access to a few additional venues, such as bars and restaurants.

[mvccd1000]

77. True, but...

... I was mostly responding to the statement that, "Here in Arizona you are required to present your CCW when the officer asks you for ID."

How is that supposed to happen when a CCW permit is longer required? Even if you have one, you're not required to use it to carry (unless you want to go in a restaurant or bar).

Perhaps he's confusing that with the new requirement that passed as part of the constitutional carry bill; you're required to tell the truth if an officer asks if you're carrying. (There is, however, no requirement to present a CCW - only to answer truthfully.)

[Meiko]

80. If you choose to carry the CCW

You are required to present it with ID. If you aren't carrying a card it would not be possible to present it, true. I choose to carry the card for a couple of reasons.

[mvccd1000]

81. Thanks for the clarification.

That's one I'd have to see a cite to statute on if I were to get a permit. I've always open carried, so never had need of one (especially now that constitutional carry is the law).

[Meiko]

82. It's on the back of the CCW

ARS 13-3112 and ARS 28-3165.A

[mvccd1000]

89. Learn something new every day. :)

I've never had or been interested in a CCW, so I was not aware of that requirement. Thanks!

[Meiko]

79. That's true

You can choose to keep one if you want, there are some benefits.

[NewMoonTherian]

74. We're required to notify in Oklahoma.

I read a story from an out-of-state visitor who had a horrible experience because he didn't know OK requires notification. I know, I know, it's the citizen's responsibility to know the law before traveling, but ignorant police with rotten agendas exploit these laws to harass people who have no ill intent. It needs to be stopped.

EDIT: Right now, the wording of the law requires notification "at first contact." The open carry bill currently awaiting the governor's signature would change the wording to "first opportunity," which is still ambiguous, but better.

[Meiko]

83. There is no reason

for a police officer to harass someone who is carrying a legal concealed weapon. If they committed an infraction it would be the officers job to enlighten the person, not harass them. Damn cops, any excuse to escalate a situation.

[Logical]

87. NO! He does not need to know. No more than I need to know. n-t

[Remmah2]

90. Maybe we should wear little yellow stars. nt

nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

91. Maybe we should...

...have our permit #s tattooed on our forearms.

[ellisonz]

93. Do you think that is funny?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

96. NO!

Not in the least.

[ellisonz]

92. Shame on you.

YOUR COMMENTS:

Insensitive and over-the-top. Comparing having to tell a police officer you're carrying a weapon during a traffic stop to the Holocaust is just wrong.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon May 14, 2012, 10:13 AM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Godwin Fail.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I agree that the comparison is just wrong, which I why I say leave it alone and let the poster take the blowback.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Little over-the top.

Thank you.

[sarisataka]

95. While not condoning the post in question

I would like to note that people who take a pro-gun position have been likened to Nazis and the Klan. They have not received much sympathy from juries...

[Remmah2]

99. Too bad you couldn't meet some of my ancestors from Warsaw.

My grandparents were the lucky ones. Insensitive my ass, part of my heritage. Over the top? NFW!

[sarisataka]

100. Mine were from Poznan

though they would have had red triangles rather than two yellow, had they not left just prior to the invasion.

Without that background, it makes your post very easy to misinterpret. Congratulations to your grandparents for surviving the atrocities. Be sure and pass that along to your future generations. Too much of "Never Forget" is already forgotten.

[Remmah2]

101. My grandparents were bold and devious.

It probably had a lot to do with them getting to England and then to the US. They even managed to keep the family name intact when they settled in Pennsylvania in case other relatives came looking for them. Grandpa started a farm and worked in a steel mill. He felt that by making American steel he could send a little pay back to the Nazis. I was lucky enough to meet them first hand before they passed. I wish my kids could have met their great grandparents.

[ellisonz]

102. Mine are from Plock, Poland...

Mine wore those stars and triangles...Your comment is really trite and offensive. Only a fool would make such a comparison. You must be a fool.

Here defend yourself: http://www.democraticunderground.com/124092001 - because frankly, your comments are indefensible and that you would dare defend it on such a basis ought to be thoroughly denounced. You can always self-delete that foolishness

[Remmah2]

103. Self delete?

Right after all the post I've found offensive get deleted, the insensitive ones comparing 2A people to Nazis and the Klan.

Kiss my dupa!

[sarisataka]

94. Poor choice

to use as a comparison. Remember to filter between the brain and keyboard

[oneshooter]

97. Yet there is a poster here that wants CHL holders

to wear a large pointed hat. Is that any difference from the yellow Star of david required by Himmler?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[sarisataka]

98. Does saying someone has to wear

a pointed hat bring up the same connotations as a yellow star of David?

I am in no way endorsing that gun carriers should be singled out. I make quite the effort to look just like everyone else. I am saying a different analogy would have served the same purpose.

[spin]

104. Here's an interesting video on how to handle a traffic stop if you are legally carrying ...

[ellisonz]

105. One problem with that video...

You could still say: Officer, I have a concealed carry permit and my firearm is secured in my vehicle in so and so location etc."

For a supposed expert, that's pretty low-hanging intellectual fruit...not impressed with this messiah of the "gun rights" crowd.

[spin]

106. Many of us legally carry a firearm on our person when we are driving ...

I rarely have a firearm in my glove box or console as I feel that leaving a firearm in a parked vehicle as often cars are broken into. Before I retired, I used to leave a firearm in my locked car while I was at work. My employer's parking lot was patrolled by the guard force.

Several years ago I was stopped for an out of date license tag while driving in Tampa. I had a .38 snub nosed revolver in my pants pocket.

I handed the officer my driver's license, my registration, insurance card and my Concealed Weapons Permit. He merely glanced at my carry permit and handed it back to me. The officer was very professional and polite and explained to me where I would have to go to pay my fine and get a new sticker for my license tag.

Police in Florida often encounter drivers who have a carry permit and none that I know have any problems with the law.

[ellisonz]

107. I hope you had the safety on!

[gejohnston]

108. Revolvers don't require manual safeties

and they don't go off when dropped.

[oneshooter]

109. Again this shows the limits of his knowledge of firearms.