Tough weekend in Chicago

[burf]

20 Shot In Chicago: 10-Year-Old Among Victims Of Weekend Violence

At least 20 people, including one child and several teens, have been wounded so far during a violent and unseasonably warm weekend in Chicago.

The violence began Friday evening and continued into Sunday morning, according to CBS Chicago. On Friday, at least 8 people were wounded throughout the city. A 16-year-old girl was reportedly hit by gunfire in the 4800 block of South Drexel Boulevard about 4 p.m. The shots were fired from a vehicle, and it was not immediately clear whether the girl was the shooter's intended target.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/29/20-shot-in-chicago-10-yea_n_1240141.html

Whats it gonna be when the long hot summer gets there? Half the shooting occured after midnight. Is a curfew in order? A few hundred more gun laws are probably in the works. Followed by a couple big dollar lawsuits.

Strange how a city with so many gun laws can have so much gun violence. No wonder Chicago is #2 in most dangerous cities in America.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/photos/most-dangerous-neighborhoods/3657374/#

[wtmusic]

1. And the moral is: give the 10-year-old girl a gun to defend herself with?

The problem is not that there are too many/not enough gun laws, it's that they have no teeth or aren't enforced.

[AtheistCrusader]

4. Only in your mind.

[rl6214]

17. "And the moral is: give the 10-year-old girl a gun to defend herself with?"

That's just anti-gun zealots snark.

"they have no teeth or aren't enforced."

This one you have right.

[TheWraith]

33. They're not enforced because they're totally unenforceable.

By definition, you're expecting that people bent on assault, drug running, and murder are going to honor laws banning them from owning a gun.

[baldguy]

2. How come "gun enthusists" can't understand

that guns can be easily carried from one jurisdiction to another?

Gun manufacturers & dealers have always marketed to people who purchase them illegally. The story in your OP is proof that the US needs national gun control laws.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

3. We have national gun control laws

but it seems that criminals ignore them.

Guns are also easily shipped from one country to another. They're easier to smuggle than drugs. Dogs can't sniff them, because they smell like steel and oil, same as cars, washing machines, etc.

[burf]

5. You wouldn't happen to have

a link to the adds marketing to people who purchase them illegally?

That would be the same firearms industry that developed the "don't lie for the other guy" in conjunction with the Feds to help stop straw purchases. The same bunch who hold training to Federal Firearms Licensees on applicable laws and reporting, along with training in compliance with those laws.

[oneshooter]

35. Of course he can't. He had to really grunt hard to get that one out.

[rrneck]

6. Same problem, larger scale...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade

[gejohnston]

7. and your post is proof that not enough

Americans are not familiar enough with current federal gun laws. We have had national gun control laws since 1927. There are a total of six of them that I can think of. Two major ones that most people know.

One more time, Since 1968 it has been a federal crime to buy a gun outside your state of residence without FFL involvement. It is a federal crime for a NY resident to buy a gun in AZ. It is a federal crime for a AZ resident to buy a gun in NY. That includes private sales. It is a federal crime for me to sell a gun to Sarah Palin, G. Gordon Liddy (who is also a prohibited person. Since he was convicted of a federal crime, his gun rights can not be restored.) It is a federal crime for me to buy a gun from them also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
I really don't care what politicians as either party claim otherwise.

[baldguy]

8. OK. Where did all those guns in Chicago come from, then?

And why isn't the ATF doing anything to close the gun show loophole?

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/gun-show-loophole-closed/story?id=10404727#.TybHb_mk-So
http://www.closetheloophole.org/loophole
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-loophole

[DonP]

9. Illinois has no "Loophole" try again.

Any firearm sales at a gun show in Illinois MUST be processed through an FFL, full 4473, NICS check etc.. No face to face sales permitted. It's already against Federal law to sell to anyone from out of state.

I just bought a "new to me" rifle at a gun show Saturday in Princeton, so the laws are all pretty fresh in my mind.

As for the ATF doing anything, ask that incompetent Eric Holder, he runs it.

I'm sure you can come up with just one more law that will reduce violent crime in Chicago.

[gejohnston]

10. same place the dope came from

just like the illegal guns in USVI, one of the strictest gun laws in the US and one of the highest murder rates in the world. Maybe from courppt NY cops that were busted selling guns.

Gun show loophole is a misnomer. First it is not a loophole and second, it is any private sales. There is no law for the ATF to enforce and they do not have jurisdiction on state matters. Private sellers are prohibited by law from doing background checks.

Your sources either don't know this or are dishonest.

[baldguy]

25. You seem to want to have it both ways.

First you say "Since 1968 it has been a federal crime to buy a gun outside your state of residence without FFL involvement".

Then you say "Gun show loophole is a misnomer. First it is not a loophole and second, it is any private sales".

The fact is - and has been shown to be fact in numerous investigations - that under the gun show loophole people buy guns outside their own state all the time. Weapons which invariably are used to commit crimes.

The loophole - and IT IS a loophole any way you slice it no matter what the NRA propaganda says - exists for the express purpose of allowing these otherwise-illegal "private sales" to continue. The weapons manufacturers and the insane gun lobby made sure it did.

[liberal_biker]

27. Nope it isnt a loophole.

A private sale is just that - a private sale. Selling an old firearm is no different than selling an old couch. The federal government has exactly zero authority over the sale.

The whole entire concept of a loophole is in and of itself, bullshit. Nobody is even close to breaking a law when they sell their personal property without a federal background check. In point of fact, it is illegal for a private individual to run said background check.

They are not now nor have they ever been "otherwise-illegal private sales". It is one person selling his personal property to another - nothing more.

[gejohnston]

29. prove it

true, check out Gun Control Act 1968 applies to all guns.

Intra-state private sales.

What investigations are those? You mean Bloomburg's videos from the James O'Keefe School of Editing? Has MAIG alerted the ATF to these sales? If you know of this happening for a fact, call the ATF hotline [phone] and report them.
http://www.atf.gov/contact/hotlines/

Private sales are perfectly legal. Not NRA propaganda, look up the dictionary definition of a loophole is.

The weapons manufacturers and the insane gun lobby made sure it did.

that is just nonsense.

[liberal_biker]

11. What loophole?

Other than in the minds of the uninformed, there is no loophole.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. re: "...why isn't the ATF doing anything to close the gun show loophole?"

Ummm... Because there isn't one. "Gun show loophole" is a misnomer.

This "loophole" that is commonly misrepresented would be more accurately termed the "private sale loophole". Some states have laws that require private sales to be accomplished via the firearm delivery by an FFL with an NICS check and some do not. Your beef is with the states where this is not required.

Private sales not accomplished through an FFL are outside the purview of the ATF and every other federal agency, department, bureau and branch of government per the 10th Amendment. In every state the private sale of anything is regulated solely by the state in which the sale takes place.

[rl6214]

19. Are you trying to say the private sale loophole?

Because those gun show sales you are going on about is the same as the sales in the newspaper, craigslist, the trunk of someones car or your neighbors kitchen table.

There is no gunshow loophole.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Private sales are not allowed in Illinois

and calling private sales a loophole is Brandy Bunch language.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. It seems you don't want to admit that it's a criminal problem and not a gun problem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=6998

55. Looks like Chicago should have adopted Texas-style gun control years ago

Gotta harsh the mellow here, brah- Chicago's murder rate is nearly twice as high as the next-largest city, Houston
You know, the one in supposedly "gun-happy" Texas?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-6

The first figure is population, the second is the number of murders in 2010

Houston (per US Census Bureau) 2,280,859 269

Chicago (per US Census Bureau) 2,695,598 435

And look, the differential got even worse last year!


http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-homicides-continue-5-year-decline-1698962.php

by Doug Miller / KHOU 11 News

khou.com

Posted on December 28, 2011 at 8:36 PM

HOUSTON -- Once notorious as the murder capital of the nation, Houston will apparently finish this year with the lowest homicide rate in the city’s modern history.

Houston approaches the end of the year with fewer than 200 recorded homicides -- 195 with three days left in the year—a historic threshold for a city that used to regularly log more than triple that number of murders. The city hasn’t seen this few killings since 1965. And it’s a dramatic decline from 1981’s historic high of 701 homicides.

"It’s incredible," said Capt. David Gott, who heads the Houston Police Department’s Homicide Division. "Even more remarkable on top of that is that it’ll probably be our lowest number per capita in our recorded history."

The city’s homicide statistics have been dropping for years -- 267 in 2010, 287 in 2009 -- despite a growing population during the economic recession. Theories trying to explain the decline abound, but police officials generally agree they’ve developed better tactics and resources for fighting crime and catching criminals whose offenses might otherwise escalate to murder....



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-29/news/ct-met-chicago-crime-stats-1230-20111230_1_gang-violence-fewer-murders-crime-numbers

Chicago is close to ending 2011 with fewer murders than last year, police say

December 29, 2011|By Jeremy Gorner, Chicago Tribune reporter

Chicago is close to ending 2011 with fewer murders than last year, which saw the lowest number of those violent crimes in nearly a half a century, according to the Police Department.

From January through Tuesday, there were 423 murders in Chicago compared to 431 through the same period last year, according to preliminary statistics released by the department.

The statistics represent a steady decline since 2008, when the city had 513 murders. A year later, that number was down to 459....

[rl6214]

18. "Gun manufacturers & dealers have always marketed to people who purchase them illegally"

that's just the biggest steaming pile of BS I've seen in a while.

I suppose the drug manufacturers are just marketing to the people that buy and sell them on the streets illegally also?

[ellisonz]

32. Because they are in denial...

[ileus]

13. Sounds like we need a total ban, gun control doesn't seem to be working.

[burf]

14. Pret near have one of them in DC

and how's that working out?

[ileus]

15. it's the Virginia gunshow loophole.

LOL

[burf]

16. Thank heavens

they don't have the hand grenade loophole like in other parts of the country!

[Atypical Liberal]

21. Sooner or later...

Sooner or later we are going to have to face the reality that the reason these places have high crime rates is not the access to firearms but the people who live there.

When you have a culture of poverty, drugs, and gangs, you will have crime, even if there were no firearms.

[ileus]

23. no no...people are pure and innocent, gun don't tempt me now!

[burf]

24. On the link to dangerous neighborhoods

#2 State St & Garfield. There is a folder titled "Description" Click on it and there is a paragraph titled: Notable & Unique: People. In it....

NeighborhoodScout's exclusive analysis reveals that the State St / Garfield Blvd neighborhood has more single mother households than 99.9% of the neighborhoods in the U.S. Often high concentrations of single mother homes can be a strong indicator of family and social issues such as poverty, high rates of school dropouts, crime, and other societal problems.

Just maybe, this might be one of the underlying factors in the condition of the neighborhood?

In all of the top 25, similar stats.

[baldguy]

26. That's right, blame the victims. Not the perpetrators or their enablers who profit from these deaths

I guess that since they're poor - and, let's face it: since they're minorities - they don't deserve to live. Right? That seems to be what you're implying.

[liberal_biker]

28. Perhaps that is what you want him to imply....

But the fact is, he did not. It was nothing but a statement of fact. Nobody is blaming the victim.

[Atypical Liberal]

30. No.

I guess that since they're poor - and, let's face it: since they're minorities - they don't deserve to live. Right? That seems to be what you're implying.

That is not what I am saying at all.

What I'm saying is there is a reason why places like Chicago have terrible crime rates compared to other places, in spite of the highly restrictive gun laws.

It is something about the people living in Chicago. Namely, poverty, lack of opportunity, an active drug trade, and lots of gang activity.

It's not the guns that are the problem. It's the people sucked into a culture of violence because of all of the things I named above.

The fact that they are minorities is incidental, except for the fact, of course, that minorities tend to be at a much higher disadvantage compared to white people and thus fall into the trap of drugs and organized crime more easily because they look like opportunities.

The crime problem in places like Chicago or LA or DC are not gun problems, they are people problems. Until we address the social issues it doesn't matter what you do with the guns.

[hack89]

34. No - he is blaming the criminals

and just who are these "perpetrators or their enablers" who are profiting from these deaths?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. best comment written on DU today:

When you have a culture of poverty, drugs, and gangs, you will have crime, even if there were no firearms.

well said. bravo.