Proctor Chief Turns to Citizens During Ammo Shortage

[sarisataka]

Proctor Chief Turns to Citizens During Ammo Shortage

May 9, 2013
Updated May 9, 2013 at 7:34 PM CDT
Duluth, MN (NNCNOW.com) - A nationwide ammunition shortage has police departments across the country counting their bullets. It's no different in Proctor, where the Chief says he was told he'd have to wait months, even a year to get more ammo.

"I was really surprised, let's just put it that way," said Chief Walt Wobig of the difficulty getting ammunition.

Woberg says that when he asked suppliers for the 1,000 rounds of ammo his officers needed for training, he was told he'd have to wait months.

"I go, 'Do you have 40–caliber qualification rounds?' And they go, 'Well, no. It's going to take six to eight months [to get them],'" said Wobig of a conversation with a manufacturer.

http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/news/local/Proctor-Chief-Turns-to-Citizens-During-Ammo-Shortage-206857491.html
Isn't the monster purchase of .40 cal by DHS supposed to also be available to police?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1. I'd guess no.

Since DHS is federal, I'd guess the bulk buy would be available only to other federal agencies. If there was some plan to include this as aid to state and local law enforcement, I'd guess a few months of delays and red tape are in order.

I remember a quote from JFK saying that DC is a city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency.

[rdharma]

2. I've got a few suggestions for Chief Walt........

Either appoint your firearms instructor (if you have one) to make sure there is always enough ammunition on hand to qualify/train Barney and Goober..... OR

Do it yourself!

Also...... it appears that your "training/qualification ammo" is different than your "carry ammo". Bad policy.

What we have here is a "Mayberry PD" without a common sense Sheriff Andy.

[sarisataka]

5. Color me confused

are police the people with ninja-like excellence who are the only ones in society who should have guns (as some claim) or are they Barney and Goober so are so hopeless it does not matter.

It is not at all uncommon to train with less expensive ammo then qualify/carry with premium ammo

[rdharma]

9. train with less expensive ammo "than" qualify/carry with premium ammo

Last edited Sat May 11, 2013, 04:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh, it's a fairly common practice alright...... but not a good idea.

And it's even a worse idea to conduct qualification with "practice" rounds.

Many budget strapped "Barney Fife PDs." count their qualification firing as both qualification AND training.

I even know of a couple "Barney Fife PDs" that the officers carry department supplied "practice ammo" for their duty ammo. Why? Because they have to purchase their own "carry ammo of choice"....... out of pocket!

[sarisataka]

20. Yes, common and a good idea

I have dry fired far more times than actually sending out a round. You can work many fundamentals without even having ammo.

Now it would be nice to go to the range with exactly what you carry. Cost wise it is not happening. Using civilian prices I could find bulk Remington FMJ at $.62/round and Golden Sabre at $1.02 per round. Rounded out that means the department can let each officer shoot 5 rounds instead of 3 in live fire by using FMJ. This work will focus also of the basics of sighting and trigger control but introduce recoil and follow up shots.

Once you (hopefully) have proficiency then switch to the carry rounds so the officers can become familiar with the specifics of the round they will use on the street. 99% of the time they will find they shoot far better than with the practice ammo.

It should be an absolute that qualification and carry ammo is the same. Another requirement, for liability, should be only department issued ammo while on duty.

[Jenoch]

6. What is your experience

as a local PD range officer and firearms instructor?

[rdharma]

11. What's yours? eom

[Jenoch]

12. I will answer your question and

then if you have any honor, you will answer the question I asked you.

I am not a PD range officer or firearms instructor, but my brother is. I have not made any claims on this thread that would necessitate me needing such experience to support such claims.

How many times have you been to Proctor and what information do you have to support the suppositions you have made about the chief and his officers?

[rdharma]

13. Ive never been to Proctor.......

Does your brother (the "PD firearms instructor&quot disagree with anything I've said?

Do you? If so, point out where I'm in error.

[Jenoch]

14. I knew you did not

have the honor to answer the question.

[rdharma]

15. What kind of info did you want?

I've already stated in the past that I was a firearms instructor.

[Jenoch]

16. I don't read all of your posts.

I asked you "what is your experience
as a local PD range officer and firearms instructor?"

Specifically, wgat experience do you have in the operations of a local police department in the U.S.

[rdharma]

17. "what experience do you have in the operations of a local police department in the U.S"

What experiences does your "brother have" ?

And what's this "local" stuff"?

[Jenoch]

19. This thread is about

a local police department acquiring ammo for training purposes. You are being critical without seeming to have any experience with a local police force and yet you mock them without any reason for doing so other than being an asshat.

[rdharma]

21. I mock their chief for being an inept bafoon.........

When the Barney Fife PDs start accepting "private donations" from citizens...... they start reciprocating with laxer discretionary enforcement on violations by those "supporters".

[Jenoch]

23. And you still did not have

the honor to answer the question.

[rdharma]

24. I don't have to prove my bona fides! Looks like your sniffin'!

But if you send me a DU mail with your e-mail address, I'll be glad to provide that info to you!

[Jenoch]

33. Yes, you do not.

I asked you a simple question. You responded with a question which I answered. I challenged your honor to answer the original question. You did not have the honor to answer the question. I am not so much interested in the answer to the question (I am fairly certain I know the answer) as I am your reaction to it. You failed.

[rdharma]

35. Waaah!

[Jenoch]

37. You show your true character

on this thread. You cannot answer a simple question, which you have asked of others even when you have been provided with a simple answer to your question. Proceed as you have, without honor.

[bossy22]

30. so your answer is for them to not have any ammo?

no one argues that asking for "ammo donations" isn't the best policy but it seems that is all they have left. Can you really blame them for that? BTW, many smaller departments don't have the financial resources to maintain reserves- they must work off "just in time" inventory replacement.

"they start reciprocating with laxer discretionary enforcement on violations by those "supporters"."- are you a big "law and order" advocate? Do you advocate that every department operate like major city departments- where the relationship between officers and the citizens is impersonal and authoritarian like? In smaller PD's there are always going to be more discretion on "violators" (of what?); that's just they way things work.

[rdharma]

34. So my answer is FIRE the Chief!

Come on..... the guy is a dumb ass!

[bossy22]

42. how is that an answer to the ammo shortage?

Fine, you fire the guy- you still need ammunition.

I don't see what is getting you all knotted up in this situation. The police chief of what appears to be a small department is asking the community for help because he feels he has no other option. Are you angry that he acknowledges the gun culture without demonizing it at the same time?

Sometimes you don't have an ideal solution. This is one of those cases. You either borrow ammunition and train, or you forgo training. Choose which is better.

[gejohnston]

31. it isn't just Mayberry

When the Barney Fife PDs start accepting "private donations" from citizens...... they start reciprocating with laxer discretionary enforcement on violations by those "supporters".

That is SOP even in the big cities, the difference is the city slickers need deeper pockets with NYPD.

[krispos42]

3. Might be time for them to load their own rounds.

Save the brass, buy a progressive press and accessories, powder, primer, and bullets, and load their own.

[CokeMachine]

4. Good Luck finding powder, primers, bullets or any reloading supplies.

I'm glad I stocked up on everything I need a few of years ago.

[rdharma]

10. load their own

Might there be some liability issues with that?

BTW - The same paranoid nut jobs who bought up all the loaded ammo...... bought up all the reloading components too.

PS - See the reply immediately above this!

[jimmy the one]

7. ammo hoarding by rkba'ers

link: {Police} Chief Turns to Citizens During Ammo Shortage

Could also read 'Police Chief turns to citizen hoarders for ammo sharing as they stockpiled ammo to keep feds & cops from infringing on their 2ndA rights'.
Take your pick of google, & rwnj spin jobs included, blaming govt too:

With gun nuts hoarding bullets, will cops be disarmed? - Salon.com Mar 27, 2013 ... “Most certainly, ammunition is in very tight supply in addition to ... in the wake of Sandy Hook, propelled by trumped-up fears of gun control. ... And observers say the current shortage may be even more severe than the previous one. ... of police in Redlands, Calif, and said, “It caused serious problems for us.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/cops_are_running_out_of_bullets_thank_the_nra/
Homeland Security hoarding ammo, depriving police - WND Jan 20, 2013 ... Similar reports are cropping up nationwide amid fears of a federal ... continues to push gun legislation in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre. ... CNS News reported police departments nationwide are experiencing ammunition shortages, ... No, the shortages are just temporary due to increased demand ...
http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/feds-to-hold-ammo-advantage-over-states/
Obama administration hoarding ammunition | ... Regarding “Inhofe-Lucas legislation targets federal ammunition ... of gun owner frustration caused by an nationwide ammunition shortage, two ... Barack Obama re-elected and intensified after Sandy Hook.
http://newsok.com/obama-administration-hoarding-ammunition/article/3806073
Cops Disarmed By Ammo-Hoarding Gun Nuts, Complains Salon ... Mar 28, 2013 ... And now police depts are having trouble buying ammunition. ... ammunition and firearms for his officers, thanks to a national shortage. ... will impose new gun control laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting. ... Then, as now, the run was caused by politicians proposing restrictive laws... http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/28/cops-disarmed-by-ammo-hoarding-gun-nuts
Nationwide ammo shortage so severe that even cops can't buy ... Jan 11, 2013 ... Nationwide ammo shortage so severe that even cops can't buy bullets ... Consumer reaction to the political rhetoric after the shooting in CT caused a rush of online .... The federal gov't agencies have bought up all the ammo and are hoarding it.http://www.naturalnews.com/038632_ammo_shortage_police.html
Talk of new gun laws triggers huge demand for ammunition; firearms ... Mar 5, 2013 ... Nationwide and across the Northeast a demand in recent months for ammunition ... 14 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Conn., that ... increase in the sale of firearms and ammunition, causing shortages of each. ... has triggered gun owners to begin hoarding ammunition http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/talk_of_new_gun_laws_in_wake_o.html

[mwrguy]

8. They are endangering the lives of both cops and civilians with their fetish

The government needs to step in and set up a list of who gets priority to buy bullets.

[bossy22]

18. Impossible to do

bullets are not like gasoline- where there are really only 4 options generally- Regular, Special, Super, and Diesel. There are dozens of calibres and then each calibre has different sub-types. Any government intervention would have to also include subsidizing the cost of re-tooling. It would be a giant mess.

And if you are going to blame gun owners- why don't we blame people like Diane Feinstien as well? If she hadn't mentioned things such as the AWB (which did not have enough support to begin with) we probably wouldn't have been in this predicament. So if you are going to blame the people who panic, place some blame on the people who cause the situation as well.

[rdharma]

22. Blame Dianne Feinstein?

Is she hoarding ammo?

[kudzu22]

25. No, but

Janet Napolitano is.

[rdharma]

26. Janet Napolitano...... hoarding ammo? Dude, that's "Alex Jones" kRaZy! eom

[kudzu22]

27. I'm not making it up

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_22594279/homeland-security-aims-buy-1-6-billion-rounds

1.6 billion rounds. They use 15 million per year for training and duty. Do the math, that's 106 years' worth of ammo. If that's not hoarding I don't know what is.

[gejohnston]

28. I don't think it is for one year

http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2013/03/15/homeland-securitys-ammunition-purchases-should-not-worry-you/
Maybe NYPD's performance at the Empire State Building inspired DHS management to up the training?

[rdharma]

32. And those "chem trails" are scary too!

[kudzu22]

40. Did I say scary?

Boy, you sure beat the hell out of that strawman.

I made no inference about the purpose of the ammo DHS is buying. Nice try linking me to that nutcase. No, I simply said they were hoarding it. Buying 100 years worth of ammo is definitely hoarding -- it's affecting market availability and poor old Barney Fife's PD.

I'd ask you to use a little logic instead of trying to discredit people by tying them to nutballs. It doesn't help your case.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

29. you da crazy one...

They don't even look similar.

[rdharma]

38. Barney

[bossy22]

43. I don't get why you think the chief is an idiot

please tell me what you think he should do in this situation.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

39. It looks like .40 S&W 105 Grain SinterFire Greenline for training and practice is in stock

at cheaperthandirt.

[rl6214]

41. Luckily I was able to stock up early

I've got at least 500 rds in each caliber I own and enough reloading supplies to load another 500 of each because you sure cant find any right now.

[jeepnstein]

44. Our department is being hit hard by this as well.

Ammo is in tight supply and there is no disputing that. You can't make it appear out of thin air so some times agencies are making do with whatever they can find. I didn't have to do that because I had a sufficient supply of duty ammo but next year will be a stretch if things don't improve.