what does this quote mean to you?

[gejohnston]

"One tenet of the National Rifle Association's faith has always been that handgun controls do little to stop criminals from obtaining handguns. For once, the NRA is right and America's leading handgun control organization is wrong. Criminals don't buy guns in gun stores. That's why they're criminals. But it isn't criminals who are killing most of the 20,000 to 22,000 people who die from handguns each year. We are."

-Josh (1-54-000-01-8C-00725) Sugarmann, "The NRA is Right: But We Still Need to Ban Handguns," The Washington Monthly, June 1987.

That article basically says that banning handguns will reduce the suicide rate and not the murder rate.

One last thing, this National Institute of Health study shows that most suicides are not impulsive, but planned.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2597102/

[Bannakaffalatta]

1. There are other ways to commit suicide -

- granted, few as convenient or 'manly'. But there are no other ways - except, of course, rifles, but that's more difficult - for little kids to accidentally kill their siblings and parents.

I suppose the illegal handguns that get on the street and thence into hands of small-time criminals, were made in underground factories and have never been documented. Coz, otherwise, it might be possible to control how many get on the street and trace where they came from.
Well, it might have been, until last week. That freaky blue-and-white plastic job changed all the rules.

[gejohnston]

2. depends on where you are at

The Yakusa gets them from underground factories, usually in the Philippines.
Most places, they are stolen from citizens and cops. Then there is NYPD who have junkie cops who sell their guns for dope.
One problem Australia has is gangs getting registration records to steal gun safes from homes, and smuggling. In 2004, the cops in Brisbane busted an underground factory by one of the biker gangs making STEN and Owen submachine guns.
In Norway, which has a very high gun ownership rate like the US and Canada, crime guns are usually stolen from the military or smuggled with drugs. (which is why terrorists go to the Netherlands, same smuggling routes.)
The plastic gun is still a zip gun, like kids used to make in shop class in the 1950s.
$295 profit on each gun isn't bad.
http://boingboing.net/2012/06/14/selling-zip-guns-to-cops-for.html
In occupied Europe, many STENS were made in basements and bicycle shops under the Gestapo's nose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten

[jimmy the one]

4. norwegian wood

johnston: In Norway, which has a very high gun ownership rate like the US and Canada, crime guns are usually stolen from the military or smuggled with drugs.

Reports suggest that the level of firearm and ammunition smuggling in Norway is low.
The regulation of guns in Norway is categorised as restrictive
In Norway, the right to private gun ownership is not guaranteed by law
In Norway, only licensed gun owners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition.
In Norway, the law requires that a record of the acquisition, possession and transfer of each privately held firearm be retained in an official register
In Norway, the private sale and transfer of firearms is prohibited
In Norway, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is prohibited
In Norway, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is prohibited
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/norway

Norway 1.4 million guns Finland 2.4m guns Switz 3.4 m
Canada 10.0 m, iceland 0.1 m (90,000) - since estimates for total guns in canada range from 7 m - 11 million, my estimate of 8 million was valid enough on the other thread, your challenge was weak & a nitpick.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

To own a gun in Norway, one must document a use for the gun. By far the most common grounds for civilian ownership are hunting and sports shooting, in that order. Other needs can include special guard duties or self-defence, but the first is rare and the second is practically never accepted as a reason for gun ownership.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

Finland: The ownership and use of firearms in Finland .. With the exception of law enforcement, only specially trained security guards may carry loaded weapons in public

[gejohnston]

9. None of which is relevant

since the issue is "ownership" and that criminals don't obey laws. What's his face didn't exactly obey the lawed carry law on his way to murder 70 people.
The point is 15 percent of the US population has criminal records. 90 percent of all US, and probably other countries too, of all murders are committed by that 15 percent. The majority of all murder victims also come from that demographic.

Most Canadian and European gun laws were passed in during the red scare 90 years ago and terrorism in the 1970s. A few have been after black swan events after school shootings. None of them to "make a more civil society" or "end street crime" which wasn't a problem then either.

[rrneck]

3. They need to back the fuck off.

People with mental health problems don't need to be pimped out for that bullshit.

[ileus]

5. That they don't want the responsibility of defending their families ,

property, or their own lives. That for some reason they're too weak to own a firearm and may commit suicide instead of using the firearm for it's intended purposes....saving lives.

[kudzu22]

6. I wonder how many people

who support handgun bans also support assisted suicide.

[jimmy the one]

7. nixon wanted ban on handguns

Josh Sugarman (guncontrol advocate): "But We Still Need to Ban Handguns," The Washington Monthly, June 1987.

That's 26 years old now johnston, & compare it with wayno lappio in 1999 agreeing with universal background checks, far more recent.
Okay then, if you want old news, how about this one, 40 years old now:

Oh, do recall that president nixon was a republican: Nixon took a hard stand during an exchange on May 16, 1972, the day after an attempted assassination on George Wallace: “I don’t know why any individual should have a right to have a revolver in his house,” Nixon said in a taped conversation with aides. “The kids usually kill themselves with it and so forth.” He asked why “can’t we go after handguns, period?”
Nixon went on: “I know the rifle association will be against it, the gun makers will be against it.” But “people should not have handguns.”
Publicly, Nixon never called for this measure, though Nixon said he would sign a bill that banned on “Saturday Night Specials” — cheaply made and easily concealed guns. Beyond that Nixon took no further action, seemingly advised not to pursue the issue.

Seems Josh Sugarman, in 1987, was reflecting President Nixon's belief, a dozen years earlier - the kids usually kill themselves with it.

[gejohnston]

8. Yes Nixon did

He was also a paranoid authoritarian, anti-semitic, sleazy and I submit treasonous piece of shit that undermined LBJ's efforts to get us out of Vietnam to get himself elected

Nixon's actual words, according to Bill Crystal, was that "gun owners would destroy him at the polls". The NRA was not much of a political force, nor did it have a lobbying arm at that time.