Nra talking points? How about anti-gun talking points.

[beevul]

There even appears to be a manual. Oddly enough, hosted at the website of a "conservative egalitarian synagogue".

http://www.tbe.org/uploadedFiles/site/Rabbis_Corner/Rabbi_Study_Materials/Gun%20ViolenceMessaging%20Guide%20PDF-1.pdf



It makes for some...uh...very interesting reading.

Interestingly enough, after reading through the PDF, it becomes clear and obvious that many of the arguments it suggests, and the methodology it suggests in using them are commonplace here on DU among the pro-more-control proponents.

I do note some delicious irony, in that the accusation of "nra talking points" get leveled so frequently, yet here in this PDF, exists what could accurately be described as an enumerated list of anti-gun talking points, and instructions how to use them, and who to use them on.

[krispos42]

1. It's like a condensed version of GD.

Interesting.

[sarisataka]

2. I think some others

on DU read this a long time ago...

I find the very first "rule" telling

#1: ALWAYS FOCUS ON EMOTIONAL AND VALUE-DRIVEN
ARGUMENTS ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE, NOT THE POLITICAL
FOOD FIGHT IN WASHINGTON OR WONKY STATISTICS.

[derby378]

3. This seems to indicate...

...that while someone like myself prefers a more even-handed and critical way of looking at the problem of violent crime in America, ever since Sandy Hook, we've been clubbed on the Internet repeatedly with guilt trips and appeals to emotion.

It also indicates that gun-control advocates tend to be scared of statistics, which can prove useful.

[DonP]

4. My personal favorte ... "If you don't agree with us, you want dead children"

No discussion, no middle ground. You favor dead kids if you won't agree with anything the gun control side puts forward.

And what do they have to show for their "highly principled stance"?

No national gun control legislation.

Bloomberg spending millions of $ against Dems he doesn't like in primaries. (No money against GOP yet)

A few states passed "overnight" laws that are being challenged.

Two Dems in Colorado that are now facing serious recall elections, after being assured by Bloomberg that everyone would love them for the new gun control laws.

Illinois finally has concealed carry.

Keep up the good work guys.

90% my ass.

[derby378]

5. First they ignored us, then they laughed at us, then they fought us...

And guess what? Charlie Sheen.

[jimmy the one]

9. 90% wrong

donP: My personal favorte ... "If you don't agree with us, you want dead children"

I didn't see that in beevul's OP link; Quote an official report of a gun control agency putting it that way. You put it in quotes, prove it or eat your words & apologize & retract.

DonP: And what do they have to show for their "highly principled stance"? No national gun control legislation.

New BATFE president, first in 7 years. Those 21 (?) points obama set forth, whatever they're called. Republican rightwing opposition in senate voted against 90% support of american public for bg checks, you're proud of this **** donp????

DonP: Bloomberg spending millions of $ against Dems he doesn't like in primaries. (No money against GOP yet)

No money against republicans yet? That's a blatant LIE for you to yet again eat crow: Bloomberg started his own “super PAC,” Independence USA .. Two other Bloomberg beneficiaries who support gun control were also elected — Dan Maffei, a Democrat who unseated Rep Buerkle, a Republican, in the Syracuse area, and Kathleen Kane, a Democrat elected atty general PA. The {bloomburg} PAC also gave $500,000, through Americans Elect, to Angus King, an independent who won a Senate seat in Maine. Independence USA also invested considerably in three unsuccessful House candidates — Val Deming, a Democrat who failed to unseat Rep DanWebster, Republican,Florida; Bloomberg gave four breakaway Democrats in state Senate $75,000, by far the largest single donation ever made to the group.. Bloomberg gave the $10,300 maximum donation to individuals in the Independent Democratic Conf.. Republicans control Senate 33 to 29. The four independent Democrats could play a significant role in deciding the chamber’s leadership next year.. http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/bloomberg_gives_state_senate_i.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/nyregion/bloombergs-campaign-contributions-yield-mixed-results.html

donp: Illinois finally has concealed carry.

Which was in the works prior to the national guncontrol effort, a separate issue.

donp: Keep up the good work guys. 90% my ass. >>>> that's about right about what donp got right.

[gejohnston]

10. about that 90 percent number

it was based on a poll done by Frank Luntz on MAIG's dime.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/federal/nra_member_poll.shtml
http://www.luntzglobal.com/

Newt Gingrich consulted Luntz when he created his list of "words to use to describe Democrats"
http://stopframingus.com/2012/01/23/newt-gingrich-holding-true-to-the-memo-he-crafted-with-frank-luntz/

[jimmy the one]

11. luntz was the low ball

johnston: about that 90 percent number .. it was based on a poll done by Frank Luntz on MAIG's dime.

Please johnston, I've already rebutted you on this once on july6,2013, try to keep up with rebuttals of your spindoctoring & not consistently repost them as fact.

july6,2013: johnston: you mean the poll MAIG hired Frank Luntz to do?

(jimmy): Dunno that much about the names, but this come up: Douglas E. Schoen LLC showed likely voters in a wide range of states and congressional districts overwhelmingly support background checks for all gun sales. The average support for background checks among 21 statewide polls was 86%.. These findings are in line with recent independent polls that have found more than 90% of Americans support background checks for all buyers http://www.demandaction.org/polls
Previous polling by Republican Frank Luntz for MAIG found that 82% gun owners.. http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr_20130323.shtml

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=127285

So luntz evidently was the low ball anyway, you were off, your argument boomerangs rangs rangs.

[gejohnston]

12. perhaps you should find better sources

because the term "push poll" comes to mind. Advocacy groups are not known for their honesty, regardless of where they sit on the scale.

[NYC_SKP]

25. "Which was in the works prior to the national guncontrol effort, a separate issue."

Which history book are you using?

What start date for national gun control effort are you using in your post?

Some argue that the Second Amendment was the first gun control effort.

Not that I endorse this article, but it makes that very point: http://engagingpeace.com/?p=6416

[branford]

13. Addendum.

Illinois finally has shall-issue concealed carry.

[DonP]

16. And ... even while this thread was running ...

NC also passed some major pro 2nd legislation, allowing carry in restaurants and other favorable changes in their carry laws.

And all the "wharfgarble word salad" and anger in online threads, doesn't change the reality out here in the real world, the gun control activists aren't having much of an effect for the last 20 years ... and the rate of gun violence, including mass shootings continues to decline. So much for the more guns = more gun violence.

Here is Illinois they are now pressing the Illinois State Police to get off their ass and start putting the system in place ASAP. The well founded suspicion is that Governor Potato Head Quinn and Rahm are telling them to stall as long as they can ... "for the children".

[branford]

17. The more things change, the more they stay the same

I suspect that you are correct and the Illinois State police will intentionally slow walk or deny applications in violation of the clear mandates of the law, all the while supported by the governor and the Chicago machine. As always, lawsuits will follow, the State will lose, the State will make a sizable donation to the NRA and/or the Second Amendment Foundation for payment of their legal fees, there will be howls of protest that the end is nigh, and nevertheless, the streets will NOT run red with blood.

I guess the payments to the NRA and SAF will be for the children . . .

[NewThinkingChance40]

20. Had this used on me

repeatedly just yesterday. There were a lot of gun control things discussed, and i posted my idea of solutions, but kept having this exact argument used on me. My response? Keep asking the person for solutions, pretty much ended any real chance for discussion.

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. Next time someone tries to lay "NRA talking point(s)" on you, ask them...

...just how they know those 'talking points' came from the NRA, and where others might find
evidence of same.

The resulting tapdancing will be most amusing, if not enlightening...

[NewThinkingChance40]

22. Will definitely try that n-t

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. I suspect the "NRA talking points" meme will disappear outside the protected enclave.

In there, it's an article of faith; outside, showing that someone is repeating fourth-hand rumor
will render it far less popular.

[virginia mountainman]

6. great post Beevul! NT

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. K&R n/t

[rrneck]

8. Lures designed to catch fishermen rather than fish. nt

[SecularMotion]

14. Thanks for the link!

[Eleanors38]

15. In a more detached and wonky manner, this confirms...

...the main thrust of controller/banners here in DU: Animosity, smear, character attacks and in the words of some, "stigmatization" of pro-2A Democrats.

And it goes without saying that the re-configuring of DU encourages this in multiple fora/groups, perhaps as a means to fill that ol' "intensity gap" the "activist" controllers have a problem with.

[rl6214]

18. Wait, you're telling me the gun control zealots have talking points?

But we were led to believe the only talking points came from the NRA machine.






I've got to go rethink this whole gun control thing.

[ileus]

19. Did they leave out "Guns kill people" ???

[CTyankee]

24. Oh, my! Love your weak sauce, folks! I was wondering what you'd come up with in response

to such a devastating story! "Never mind about US! Let's talk about YOU!"

Nice try at changing the subject, guys!

FAIL.