What are some real ways to promote gun safety / less deaths?

[Dash87]

What do you personally believe should be done to lessen gun violence / accidents / etc.?

For instance, I find restricting gun ownership for anyone convicted of a felony or charged with domestic violence in the last 10 years to be reasonable. If, after 10 years, they've avoided breaking the law, they can own guns again.

Assault with a gun = you should never be able to own one again. By shooting someone, you've shown that you cannot be trusted with a gun.

Cops should be subject to the same gun laws that citizens are, as cops are civilians as well. I don't think cops are any safer with guns than civilians.

I also favor strict gun classes. Gun safety should be taught extensively to cut down on avoidable accidents. This includes leaving a gun in the reach of kids.

I don't believe anyone under the age of 18 should be allowed to own or operate a gun. I'm glad that your father taught you to shoot at a young age and you were responsible /respectful of the gun, but you were also the exception.

Any opinions on these options, or have any to add of your own?

[Jenoch]

1. Have you thought this through?

"I don't believe anyone under the age of 18 should be allowed to own or operate a gun. I'm glad that your father taught you to shoot at a young age and you were responsible /respectful of the gun, but you were also the exception."

Are you saying nobody under the age of 18 should be allowed to hunt wild game?

[Dash87]

2. That's exactly what I'm saying.

I don't think their minds are developed enough to handle a gun respectfully and with care.

Of course, there are 18, 16, or even 12-year-olds that can handle guns without incident, but I also believe such a law would protect against harm from the majority that aren't.

The brain needs time to grow and mature, and most 12 - 18 year olds are not mature enough (physically in their brain stricture and emotionally) to handle a device that can quickly end another's life or even their own.

We restrict driving a car to only those over the age of 16, and I believe gun ownership should be restricted as well.

[Jenoch]

4. My brother has been teaching

Minnesota DNR sponsored gun safety/training course for 25 years. I am sure he would disagree with your assessment.

There is another reason for gun safety training that has nothing to do with hunting. If somebody has had such training, they have knowledge of guns and are may capable of avoiding dangerous situations.

All too often we hear about stories where someone is killed by an 'unloaded' gun because the gun owner and others' around them do not know that a semi-auto gun with the magazine removed is not an unloaded firearm. A gun safety training course is a good thing for everyone to experience, even those that do not ever plan to own a firearm.

[Dash87]

7. I completely agree with your last sentence.

It would be a good idea to teach basic gun safety in schools as well.

[beevul]

9. Tell us about this "majority" that aren't...

Tell us about this "majority" that aren't able to handle guns "without incident".

First, you might...substantiate the fact that this group even exists.

Second, substantiate that they comprise a "majority" in any accurately measurable way.


Tackle those two, and we might even be able to have a discussion.

"We restrict driving a car to only those over the age of 16, and I believe gun ownership should be restricted as well."

No, "we" really don't.


Some states do, and some states don't. My state allows permits to drive to school at 14, and if you look, you'll find that rules as to legal driving age vary quite widely state to state.

[Dash87]

15. There's stories of young kids accidentally shooting

themselves every day. That's proof enough, imo.

While driving rules may vary state by state by a little, the principle is the same - we restrict kids from using stuff that might hurt themselves or others.

[Eleanors38]

25. The accidental death-by-gun rate for children has been falling...

for years, is lower than drowning & electrocution, and has been falling faster than any other category of death-cause, according to the National Safety Council. We should find out what's "going right." I see controller posts "everyday" on this topic, however.

Strategy: National campaign on T.V., radio, papers, major web sites, etc. to encourage use of lock boxes & safety measures, year after year.

Problem: How many T.V., radio, paper, major web sites will go along, esp. if such a campaign dusrupts a narrative that guns are evil, must not be accepted, shown in a good light, or SHOWN AT ALL?

[DonP]

26. I like the idea of a tax credit for a safe storage purchase.

Maybe a $50 to $200 tax credit, depending on the purchase price, for buying a safe, or even a small biometric gun vault.

[beevul]

28. I see.

So, the fact that there are "stories of young kids accidentally shooting themselves every day", is proof enough for you that there is a group that isn't able to handle guns "without incident", AND that this group is a "majority".



Can we all assume that you'll stand by that criteria when we start seeing self defense with a firearm stories, daily?

[Dash87]

29. I already will - firearms are a legitimate form of self defense.

For adults that can properly handle them, that is.

[hack89]

14. My experience is that the majority of kids can handle guns responsibly

the key is proper training and adult role models. I occasionally help out with the youth program at the local gun club - it has been teaching kids to shoot for decades without an accidental shooting. The kids get it - they understand that handling guns is a serious matter.

[Dash87]

16. The difference is that they're handling guns within

adult supervision, imo. The problem is maturity. Kids shooting with adults will handle guns completely differently than when taking their gun out to show off to their friends. That's when accidents happen.

Even supervision doesn't help all of the time. There was that kid, for example, that shot himself in the head at that CT gun show. It recoiled while firing automatically towards his head. He was 14 and way too young to be firing a weapon like that without it being physically held in place by an adult.

I think a lot of adults forget how far kids at that age have to go mentally. We expect them to, for example, handle guns responsibility because we train them to. This doesn't always work because 14 year olds vary too much in maturity. The sensible thing to do, imo, is to set a base age (18) and stick to it.

[hack89]

17. Kids should never be allowed to handle guns without adults present

where did you get the idea that we gun owners would support such a notion.

For millions of adults, receiving that first .22 as a kid was a right of passage - a tradition they in turn passed on to their kids. It happened to me and in turn I did the same to my kids. You are not going to change that.

Here is a question for you. If 18 is such a magical age, should we restrict driving to that age? Car accidents kill many more kids than gun accidents. Do you think 16 year olds are mature enough to handle such responsibility given teenage accident rates? My point is that people tend to overestimate the threat of guns while blithely accepting or underestimating the danger of getting behind the wheel of a car.

[Dash87]

18. 18 isn't really a magical age, no. It's just a flat age where

most would hopefully be mature enough to handle weapons.

I also don't believe gun owners would support kids being alone with guns - I'm not trying to make assumptions about gun owners. The purpose of this thread is more a statement of how gun deaths can be avoided - not allowing kids to be alone with guns is one way to accomplish that.

I also don't agree with receiving any gun at such a young age, but we'll have to agree to disagree, won't we?

[hack89]

19. Do you feel the same way about cars?

why guns even though they pose a much lesser threat than cars? Accidental gun deaths are not a a big threat to teenagers - they are dwarfed by cars, drugs and alcohol related deaths.

If I am willing to put my kids behind the wheel of a car than letting them handle guns should be a no brainer.

[Dash87]

20. I agree with the current laws, if that answers the question.

Guns because they're dangerous when mishandled, and require an operator who can properly handle them.

[hack89]

21. So cars are not equally dangerous when mishandled

and don't require an operator who can properly handle them?

Which is a greater likelihood for a teenager - dieing from a gun accident or from a car accident?

[Dash87]

22. They are, but cars are restricted to a certain age.

12 year olds can't drive. In the same idea, 12 year olds should also not own guns.

[hack89]

23. 12 year olds cannot own guns

you have to be 18 to own a gun.

Why not restrict the age of gun ownership to the age of being legal to drive - 16.

[tumtum]

27. 12 yo's can drive,

as long as they're on private property. I was driving an old GMC P/U at 11 yo on my family farm, never had an accident and never, ever left the property while driving, I also hunted with a 30.06 Winchester lever action rifle and a 20 ga. shotgun when I was 11 yo., of course, with adult supervision.

Bottom line, children can handle firearms if they are educated, educated, educated, on firearms safety and strictly supervised, which, sadly, seems to not happen enough today.

[beevul]

30. No, dash.

"They are, but cars are restricted to a certain age."

They are restricted to a certain age only when used in public.

Private property? They can drive to their hearts content.


A visit to any rural agricultural area, will confirm this to you, whether we are talking about a pickup truck, or a tractor trailer. Yes indeed, I know personally, several teen agers some as young as 14, that drive farm pickup trucks, and even the tractor trailers from point A to point B on the farm.


You appear to be conflating ownership, with usage in public, with usage on private property.

[gejohnston]

24. It was an MA gun show

it was Mini Uzi on full auto where the kid could not control the climb. It had nothing to do with the kid's lack of mental maturity, it was the fault of the adults. Had the adults showed him use the folding stock and fire from the shoulder and burst fire, he would be OK. Had the owner not let the dad talk him into letting the kid fire it, it would have been better.

[Dash87]

31. Thanks for the correction, but I do not agree.

I think his age had everything to do with it. It caused him to pick up a dangerous item and use it without care.

It wasn't his fault, though. He should have been supervised, as I said above. I agree with you in the sense that the adults around him failed.

[gejohnston]

32. If I remember the story correctly,

the kid was younger, closer to 9, and it started as the dad wanting a pic of the kid to shoot it for a pic. The owner explained that mini Uzis needed specific training how to fire it (I was taught to fire an M-60 in six to nine round busts, never mind a mini Uzi). Dad finally convinced the owner. That is why I fault the two adults:
Dad for not listening to the owner, and the owner for relenting or not showing the kid what to do (or at least help him hold it.)

[derby378]

35. I fired a full-auto Uzi on the gun range once

This was the full-size "Uzi" Uzi, not one of the Micro or Mini models. I was surprised by the lack of recoil in semi-auto mode, but quickly learned to respect muzzle climb in full-auto mode. With a little concentration and a firm grip, this is not much of a problem.

However, that Mini Uzi makes someone like me a bit nervous. Maybe I'd do well with the muzzle climb and keep the barrel pointed downrange, but knowing it has the ability to kick itself ass-over-teakettle warrants some serious concern.

[lumpy]

3. There is only one way to solve all of our problems, education. And that is a distant dream.

n

[Dash87]

8. You're right. Education is sadly,

very low on the list of priorities in this country.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

5. Many things

This is the list of folks you are prohibited from receiving a firearm from an FFL:

-A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.
-Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.
-An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.
-A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.
-A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
-A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.
-A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.
-A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.
-The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.
-A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.
-A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

I favor:
-Assaults with any deadly weapon including hands and feet where anyone could have been killed gets you life, no parole.
-Bag the war on drugs; legalize and tax many of them.
-Require states with privacy laws prohibiting the reporting of mental health issues to the FBI for inclusion in an NICS database to participate as Full Point of Contact states and require them to establish and maintain their own database for such information.
-Set up safety classes to qualify adults for supervising their minor children or relatives while hunting and shooting.

I have another list for open/concealed carry.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. (1) economic reform, (2) increased prison time for criminals who use firearms in their criminal

activities, (3) univeral mental-health care (universal, not the ACA substitute), and (4) stop demonizing and alienating those Democrats and Independents who choose to own or defend the rights of others to choose to own firearms.

It is reasonable and common for millions of Americans to safely own firearms in their homes for self-defense or other lawful purposes. Millions do.

I blame gun controllers for the 1994 loss of Congress after having 40 years of having a Democratic
Congress and Democratic Party policies which led to the rise of the American middle-class.

We benefited as a whole when the Democratic Party controlled Congress with Democratic policies.

The Republicans do not share the policies and values. From 1954 through 1994, the Democratic Party controlled Congress.

In 1994, there was a loss of 54 seats. A major loss. Bill Clinton attributed the AWB in his autobiography as being a major factor.

The gun controllers bait other DUers may be sincerely ignorant of the 1994 losses. Or they may be so arrogant and selfish that they simply don't care. Or they may be Republican sock-puppets. It can be hard to tell. But many of them want to repeat the 1994 election.

I question, if there are gun controllers who are sincere, do they ever raise issues for economic reform? Do they ever ask for increased minimum prison sentences for those convicted of gun related crimes? Are they ever concerned about universal mental health care (with no diversion about the Affordable Care Act with the mandatory purchase of insurance)? Or are all their anti-gun energies directed towards using emotional language and trying to shut down all views contrary to theirs?

Unless there is a goal of seeking more cooperation within the Democratic Party - instead of alienation - there will be no meaningful reforms.

[beevul]

10. Universal gun safety training.

Universal gun safety training.

For everyone.


Much improved mental health care.


Universal suicide education and prevention education.

For everyone.

Those two would act against 2/3 of all gun deaths and 100 percent of all accidents.

Strangely, many who call themselves gun-violence-prevention advocates, seem far less interested in those things, than they do in attacking legal gun ownership.

[ileus]

11. Best way to avoid accident is start kids out at a young age.

I waited until my kids were 6 and 8 respectively, sure some say this is a late start but I believe by waiting so long they were mature enough to give firearms the proper respect necessary for a life long enjoyment of the shooting sports.

Here's looking at another successful hunting season for my son, and my daughters first. (only her's will be with a bow for deer only)

Rule #1 ALL firearms are ALWAYS loaded.

[Jenoch]

12. I went duck hunting with my dad with a popgun until I was 8 years old.

Then I got to use a single shot .410. No deer hunting with a gun until I was 12, which was state law back then. Now, 10 and 11 years olds can hunt deer in Minnesota as long as they are with an adult.

[GreenStormCloud]

13. I wasn't the exception, I was part of the norm.

All of the farm kids that I knew had access to guns as kids. We were all taught how to use them. None of us shot anybody or ourselves.

[Glaug-Eldare]

33. Here are some ideas I pitched out a while back, to pretty wide support.

End the War on Drugs

End the criminalization of recreational drugs (inc. "hard drugs" like cocaine and meth) and instead use government resources to treat addiction. This will accomplish many positive goals. It will slash the incomes of the ultra-violent cartels in Central and South America which are devastating the countries in which they operate. They will have less money to acquire military arms (like actual assault rifles, grenades, and rocket launchers) which subsequently end up on the American black markets. Reducing the number of drug addicts in the USA will reduce crime in general, increase the number of employable people, and increase quality of life in general.

Make NICS checks mandatory for private sellers

I think I've found a way to make this Constitutional -- amend the NICS law so that FFL access is contingent on the dealer state's creation of a background check system for private sellers. The details will be up to the individual states to determine, but if they do not have a compliant scheme in place by some deadline, FFLs in that state will not have access to NICS, and retail sales will no longer be possible there. If a state refuses to regulate private sales, then no FFL in that state will be able to legally stock any firearm not manufactured in and marked for use exclusively in that state.

Expand availability of mental health services

Since the 80s, access to mental health treatment has been dismal. It is expensive, humiliating, and difficult to find. Expansion of care options could be accomplished by amending the PPACA, or new legislation establishing a network of state and federal treatment facilities. Like addiction treatment, this would have the happy consequence of reducing a broad spectrum of crime committed by people with untreated mental illness who don't have the means to reach or pay for treatment in the present "free market" system.

I think these three measures fit comfortably into progressive policy, and would find much weaker opposition than proposals that attempt to address technology instead of behavior. Whaddyathink?

[AtheistCrusader]

34. How did we get hollywood to stop portraying smoking as cool?

Do the same with irresponsible display, use, etc of firearms.

That would help on the pop culture side, even as we see a decline in teen smoking, accompanying a decline in the portrayal of smoking in media.

I'm not saying 'the video games caused it', but there is a social acceptance of some things as the norm, such as drinking while hunting. Or putting a gun in your waistband, etc.