Should visitors to schools be prohibited from bringing firearms on the property?

[CreekDog]

9 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Schools should have the right to prohibit carrying firearms on their property (excepting law enforcement)
	6 (67%)
	Schools should not have the right to prohibit carrying firearms on their property
	3 (33%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[KansDem]

1. Of course...

Why should schools be any different than any other public place or place of business?

[S_B_Jackson]

37. Such a sign is absolutely meaningless in Texas...

has now legal weight whatsoever.

As for he poll question, a ban within the school buildings yes.

On a person, such as a parent dropping off or picking up their kids and who do not exit their vehicle, or properly secured in a locked, unattended vehicle parked in the lot? No.

[CreekDog]

38. I'd argue with you but since you believe that "quotas" are required for minorities, let's not

your false postings about our Civil Rights Act as well as nonsense about the privilege minorities have under the law means that it's pointless to argue with you.

first, we aren't even arguing one liberal to another. second, you aren't grounded in truth.

S_B_Jackson

Response to Reply #1

7. One wonders what our nations laws will look like in such a situation...

the basic presumption of most EEOC laws is that "the norm" is white male. When the they are no longer a majority, can current EEOC laws withstand challenges by now, "minority" white males to similar protected status, and provided the same priviledge, quota, and set-aside programs be provided FOR THEM?

[S_B_Jackson]

41. With regards to the poll question in this topic

what is it that you believe was misstated?

A gun-busters sign is meaningless. It bears no legal weight whatsoever.

My opinion is that no school should be concerned about those with a legal permit having a firearm in their vehicle if attended, or properly secured in their locked vehicle if unattended. They do have a proper concern about firearms within the school, and should confine their efforts to that end.

Not all of us Democrats are liberals.

[CreekDog]

42. I never referred to a sign, are you confused?

[S_B_Jackson]

44. Kansdem, however did....

and that was to whom I initially was responding. You seem to be having a problem addressing the topic of this thread, why is that?

[gejohnston]

2. yes,

and the State should not stop churches from allowing guns either. Their house/their rules applies both ways as does church/state separation. I do think they should have the right to extend the ban to off duty police just like the NFL does, even if the Chicago police union doesn't like it.

[bowens43]

3. Of course, you would have to be a fucking moron to think otherwise.

[CreekDog]

7. sssshhhhh

downthread.

[Straw Man]

29. From one FM to another ....

Of course, you would have to be a fucking moron to think otherwise.

How about in a vehicle in the school's parking lot? Should a person have to drive an extra fifty miles round trip rather than leave a locked gun in a locked case in a locked car for a few minutes while transacting some routine business at a school? And if you say "yes," could you explain why?

[Staph]

4. In the state of West Virginia,

all guns are prohibited on public school grounds, except when carried by law enforcement or by the mascot of West Virginia University, the Mountaineer. He or she is allowed to carry a flintlock rifle as a part of the uniform, and at WVU sporting events, fires it at appropriate moments. The permission to fire it at away games has to be negotiated with the opposing school!

[Omnith]

5. No

As there are people who go into schools for the purpose of mass murder. I think a school would be a place were I would want to protect myself.

[petronius]

9. "Property" is too broad - I'd say the line should be drawn at the boundary

of the student educational/activity spaces. Schools (meaning public K-12 institutions) should have strict control over who and what is in the classrooms and on the playgrounds. But the public-facing areas, such as the parking lots, should be treated more in accord with the larger public sphere: if it's legal to possess an item in the general public space, then that same legality should apply to a person legitimately visiting the external portions of the school property. For example, a parent picking up a child should not be barred based on the otherwise legal contents of his/her pockets.

Private schools should have a broader right to do what they want - for them, I'd draw the line where the car tire of the visitor meets the pavement...

[davepc]

10. People who bring guns places to commit violence don't give a shit if their prohbited or not

[oneshooter]

11. Why exempt law enforcement? n/t

[NYC_SKP]

12. By "Prohibition", I take you to mean "should there be a law or laws".

Which is an entirely different matter from the question, "should guns affirmatively be prevented from ever being on school grounds"?

My answers might vary depending upon the qualifications of your question.

As it stands, I think it's too broad. For example, if a LEO is picking up Suzie, or at school on business, I think she or he can carry if they are on duty at the time.

If you're talking about some parent nitwit that likes to play army wanting to flaunt her or his package while picking up Scooter, then I'd say no, don't come to school with the thing you have.

[CreekDog]

13. the poll questions are clear.

pick the one you prefer.

should schools be allowed to prohibit this or should they be forbidden to prohibit it.

[NYC_SKP]

14. I didn't see the exception for LEOs at first, iPhone at the time, back at hotel now.

I voted unsure or neither for the purposes of this question.

I would probably say go ahead and prohibit it as a concept, which is to say have a rule that isn't enforced as a message, a suggestion, one that of course would be punishable if one is caught, because the alternative might encourage people to bring gun things on to school grounds.

So I lean toward saying, "hey, don't you bring those things here you!" with a rule as you suggest.

Though I'm still loath to make blanket statements.

Urban, rural, so many different schools settings.

In your neck of the woods, I'd far more likely support the kind of prohibition you suggest.

Did you know that about 34% of K-12 students in Alaska live in poverty?

At least by one account. Then I go to a different site and it's only 12%. I don't believe the second site.

[GreenStormCloud]

15. Let individual school districts decide for themselves

In accordance with state & federal laws.

[Eleanors38]

20. Pretty much my take, and the law in Texas public schools.

[CreekDog]

39. well that's what my poll asked, why are you struggling so hard?

maybe if i'd put a poll choice that said that global climate change is false, you'd have found something to vote for.

[GreenStormCloud]

40. I didn't read the poll correctly.

It took it to mean that the decision should be made at the federal or state level instead of at the local level.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

16. I thought they were already in most states.

[NYC_SKP]

17. I think the OP wants to see who might like to undo such prohibitions.

And then discuss the matter with those who do.

Just a hunch, mind you.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

18. Yes but if I had an opinion which I was interested in...

...having questioned and possibly attacked, I'd post my own OP.

[NYC_SKP]

19. Been there....

Done that!!!

[CreekDog]

24. too hard a question for you Skip huh?

not surprised.

[NYC_SKP]

30. Hey CreekDog! Look, I think the way your wrote the subject line and poll choices is faulty:

Oh gosh no, not a hard question as I read it again on a bigger screen without scrolling, and with a bit more time, except for your confusing presentation:

Take a look at your subject line question compared to the questions as phrased in the poll. The differences are enough to make it a bit tricky.

"Visitors" to school are clearly NOT part of that school so, as such, they should obey whatever rules the school wishes to create.

So, "YES", schools should be able to declare that visitors should not carry firearms, no doubt about that, any and every school should have the right to have that rule,or not have that rule if they don't want it.

But if asked to answer the question in the subject line, "Should visitors to schools be prohibited from bringing firearms on the property?", I would answer "NO" because it sounds like and edict from the central ministry of telling all schools that they have to adopt the rule, and I would not agree with that.

Again:

Subject line: "Should visitors to schools be prohibited from bringing firearms on the property?" NO


Poll option: "Schools should have the right to prohibit carrying firearms on their property (excepting law enforcement)" YES

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

43. Not waiting by the keyboard for an answer are ya?

[NYC_SKP]

46. Hell no. I'm still wondering what happened to Robb.

I hope he's OK, but the last time I heard from him was a post about gun control ideas and stuff.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. Maybe...

...he's on vacation with http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=272768

[NYC_SKP]

48. Oh, My!

.

.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

49. And Toto, too!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=200251

Been a while.

[Jenoch]

21. I think bannign a LEO from picking up his kid

while armed, uniform or not, is ridiculous. I am referring specifically to the complaints about the Mesa, Arizona cop who picked up his kid while in uniform and armed.

[CreekDog]

23. read the poll/post you're responding to next time

(it has a law enforcement exception)

[Jenoch]

25. I was making a specific point

about a specific event.

Did you notices I did not vote in the poll?

[CreekDog]

27. Yes, I noticed the question was too hard for you

or was one where you prefer not to post your opinion on the issue.

suit yourself. i'm not ashamed of my opinion on the issue.

[Jenoch]

28. I never click on any internet 'poll'.

This particular poll is not so bad because it is pretty cut and dried, but most of them have bullshit responses to choose from, so I keep to my policy of not participating. So, my answer would with the majority on this one, if I were to vote.

[GreenStormCloud]

22. In Texas, you can have the gun in the car.

You can't take a gun inside the school building but you can pull the car into the school parking lot while armed.

LEOs may be armed, even inside the school.

Some districts allowed armed teachers.

[Jenoch]

31. The Texas law is how it should be.

If I've been out pheasant hunting I should be allowed to leave my unloaded and cased shotgun in the trunk of the car, out of sight. I probably would anyway.

[GreenStormCloud]

32. As long as the gun is out of sight, it can be loaded and easily reachable. N/T

[Jenoch]

35. It can be, but it might be against the law.

I think it should be legal to have an unloaded gun, cased, and in the trunk of a car, or at least in the far back reaches of an SUV or truck just about anywhere. I realize there should be exceptions, such as federal facilities, but it should be legal in a school parking lot. Who is going to know?

Of course, if someone decides to bring a gun in an auto to a school for nefarious reasons, well that is not comparable. They are going to do it regardless of the law.

[GreenStormCloud]

36. In Texas it can be on school grounds, but not in the school building.

Of course you are right that an active shooter won't pay attention to the no-guns sign.

[BlueCaliDem]

26. AB-SO-LUTELY. That's just common sense. eom

[Oneka]

33. Minnesota has it about right

Making carrying unlawful as the default position, but allowing school administrators the ability to allow carry, to whom they wish.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66

"Subd. 1d.Possession on school property; penalty. (a) Except as provided under paragraphs (d) and (f), whoever possesses, stores, or keeps a dangerous weapon while knowingly on school property is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
(b) Whoever uses or brandishes a replica firearm or a BB gun while knowingly on school property is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
(c) Whoever possesses, stores, or keeps a replica firearm or a BB gun while knowingly on school property is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), (b), or (c), it is a misdemeanor for a person authorized to carry a firearm under the provisions of a permit or otherwise to carry a firearm on or about the person's clothes or person in a location the person knows is school property. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.
(e) As used in this subdivision:
(1) "BB gun" means a device that fires or ejects a shot measuring .18 of an inch or less in diameter;
(2) "dangerous weapon" has the meaning given it in section 609.02, subdivision 6;
(3) "replica firearm" has the meaning given it in section 609.713; and
(4) "school property" means:
(i) a public or private elementary, middle, or secondary school building and its improved grounds, whether leased or owned by the school;
(ii) a child care center licensed under chapter 245A during the period children are present and participating in a child care program;
(iii) the area within a school bus when that bus is being used by a school to transport one or more elementary, middle, or secondary school students to and from school-related activities, including curricular, cocurricular, noncurricular, extracurricular, and supplementary activities; and
(iv) that portion of a building or facility under the temporary, exclusive control of a public or private school, a school district, or an association of such entities where conspicuous signs are prominently posted at each entrance that give actual notice to persons of the school-related use.
(f) This subdivision does not apply to:
(1) active licensed peace officers;
(2) military personnel or students participating in military training, who are on-duty, performing official duties;
(3) persons authorized to carry a pistol under section 624.714 while in a motor vehicle or outside of a motor vehicle to directly place a firearm in, or retrieve it from, the trunk or rear area of the vehicle;
(4) persons who keep or store in a motor vehicle pistols in accordance with section 624.714 or 624.715 or other firearms in accordance with section 97B.045;
(5) firearm safety or marksmanship courses or activities conducted on school property;
(6) possession of dangerous weapons, BB guns, or replica firearms by a ceremonial color guard;
(7) a gun or knife show held on school property;
(8) possession of dangerous weapons, BB guns, or replica firearms with written permission of the principal or other person having general control and supervision of the school or the director of a child care center; or
(9) persons who are on unimproved property owned or leased by a child care center, school, or school district unless the person knows that a student is currently present on the land for a school-related activity.
(g) Notwithstanding section 471.634, a school district or other entity composed exclusively of school districts may not regulate firearms, ammunition, or their respective components, when possessed or carried by nonstudents or nonemployees, in a manner that is inconsistent with this subdivision."

[Bazinga]

34. What schools?

Private schools? Absolutely.

Public elementary through high schools? Probably, though parents picking up students should not have to disarm in a parking lot. I also believe that someone on campus should be armed, the most obvious being a school resource officer.

Public universities? No. If a student or faculty member has been licensed to carry off campus, there is no reason to believe s/he shouldn't be trusted to carry on campus.

[aikoaiko]

45. Given its a public school and the person is complying with carrying/possession laws, I'm ok with it.

And given that it is not a secured area.