Man with concealed firearm spoils carjackers fun.

[ileus]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/12/18/nh-man-pulls-gun-on-would-be-carjacker/

Based on the fear that Mr. Jensen had and based on his actions it does appear that it was appropriate,” said Nashua Police Lieutenant Denis Linehan.
Jensen, 52, says he has no regrets.
“They said he didn’t have a weapon but I didn’t know that, you don’t have time to think about it,” said Jensen. “You have to either react, you’re either a victim or you’re not, I chose not to be a victim.”


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Folks are becoming bolder...always be aware of your surroundings.

[NYC_SKP]

1. We can be victims and live in fear.... Or....

We can do what people have done since day one and defend ourselves as best we can.

I'm glad it had a safe outcome, it's a shame that it had to happen in the first place.

[ileus]

6. But that's impolite to society!

h8er!

[donco]

2. Good for Mr. Jensen

If it woulda been me the weapon wouldn't have been "within inches of the stranger’s head ".Bad things can happen with a weapon being that close.

[Warpy]

3. I'm not sure the carjacker was having fun

It sounds more like he was high on something nasty.

[seattledo]

4. Escalating the violence...

is not the solution.

[Eleanors38]

5. I agree. The would-be car jacker's violence escalator was quickly jammed.

[ileus]

9. being a willing victim isn't a solution.

[Starboard Tack]

7. Perfect! "Based on the fear that Jensen had..." He pulled a fucking gun on an unarmed man.

Talk about over-reacting.

[ileus]

8. An innocent unarmed man at that....how rude.

gunners...

[Starboard Tack]

10. Exactly! Maybe he just wanted a ride.

I guess the freaks who carry would consider this a DGU. Makes the stats pretty worthless.

[painesghost]

11. "Freaks who carry," Wow.

You mean the police or are they exempt because they are an arm of the State?

[Starboard Tack]

12. Depends what they are doing

Any routine carry, be it by LE, or fearful civilians, or crooks, is freakish behavior. I acknowledge there are situations when one might legitimately consider carrying a weapon, but those situations are extremely rare.

[Straw Man]

15. Nobody got hurt ...

... and a crime was thwarted. I don't understand why you have a problem with that.

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. "Any routine carry...is freakish behavior."

Congratulations on abandoning any semblance of credibility in this argument.

[Starboard Tack]

22. You disagree with my comment? Really?

Do you seriously think that carrying a gun around for no reason, other than the remote possibility of being attacked, is normal behavior. Lizzie, I don't condemn freakish behavior, but I do point it out. Most of us engage in some kind of freakish behavior from time to time, including myself. The important thing is to recognize it and then either accept it and own it, or not. I use the term "freak" in it's most generic sense of being "odd" and somewhat "abnormal" and/or "irrational". Some of us are freakier than others. Those who carry without cause are pretty darn freaky, about on the same level as an airline passenger having a parachute in her carry-on bag.

Don't take it personally, as I mean no insult. I used to think the parachute idea made a lot of sense and if I were a diminutive female, living or working in a rough neighborhood, or if I'd been subjected to some kind of abuse or physical threat, then I would definitely consider arming myself with a concealed weapon.

[Lizzie Poppet]

23. Yep, really..and quite strongly.

"Freakish" carries far, far stronger connotations of aberrance that "somewhat 'abnormal'" or even "odd." The term most certainly is insulting to what I'd confidently predict is the vast majority of people to whom it might be applied in this manner. Perhaps you meant something less over-the-top and insulting, but if so your usage was contrary to your intent.

Carry for the purpose of self defense is far too common for such a usage to be accurate. it is not something done by the majority (obviously), but millions of people do so. So unless one restricts the definition of "normal" to that which is done only by the majority, yes, carrying is a "normal" behavior.

I think I'll decline to comment on your use of "irrational," as that would go nowhere fast, I suspect.

[Jenoch]

24. It is possible that "freakish"

has a different definition in the English language in Great Britain.

[Starboard Tack]

25. Irrational is easy, because the numbers don't add up.

In terms of rational logic, carrying a gun on a regular basis for self defense is no different to playing the lottery for a living, unless, as I said, one lives or works in a statistically dangerous area, or is engaged in a dangerous occupation like a bank guard, bank robber, swat team member, drug cartel member etc.. Otherwise, the behavior is freakish. If you take offense, then that is your problem. Many of my generation, including myself, wore our hair long, dressed unconventionally and considered ourselves freaks, which we were and comfortable with the term. The millions of us who lived such a lifestyle did not make us feel normal until the fashionistas came along and started to cash in on it all. I see the same thing happening in the gun world.
Some call themselves gun nuts, some gun freaks. It's not a big deal and those who carry should not be offended by it. They need thicker skins, especially if they want to survive out there.

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. "...no different to playing the lottery for a living." That's just hilariously silly.

"In terms of rational logic, carrying a gun on a regular basis for self defense is no different to playing the lottery for a living..."

Okay, I've stopped laughing long enough to reply. The odds of winning, say, the Mega Millions jackpot are c. 258,000,000 to 1. The odds of winning anything at all are 14.7 to 1. the odds of somehow making a living at the lottery are difficult to determine, but obviously they'd fall somewhere in between.

On the other hand, the percentage chance of being the victim of murder, rape, robbery, or assault in the in one's lifetime (beginning at age 20, which is one year before one would have the legal ability to own handgun, but the next available data point is at age 30) was found to be 72% in a survey by the DoJ's Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Sure, this is an old survey (March 1987), and crime has lessened. And yes, who and where you are plays a big role. But if you really think the odds of the two (making a living with the lottery and becoming the victim of violent crime) are even remotely comparable, then you either don't know the facts or are spectacularly bad at math. Victimization by violent crime is not remotely as rare an occurrence as you seem to think, and one need not be in a particularly high-risk profession or locale for this to be the case. Preparing for such a possibility is no more "freakish" than, say, having a fire extinguisher in your car (a car fire being a vastly less likely occurrence than a violent crime).

That kinda makes your comments about your use of the term "freakish" irrelevant, but I do want to point out that statements like "If you take offense, then that is your problem" actually say to most people "I don't have a solid argument in defense of what I did so I'll just try and shift blame." By that reasoning, if I called you "mathematically illiterate" for your cringeworthy comparison to the lottery, that wouldn't be an insult, and you should just grow a "thicker skin."

[Starboard Tack]

32. I'm not in the least bit offended. I have a very thick skin.

Now, to address your argument against my lottery analogy. I am fully aware of the odds of becoming a victim of violent crime. Unfortunately, the carrying of a weapon has a virtually zero effect on that likelihood. That's why I stand by my analogy.
The likelihood of a positive outcome is so remote for the majority of those who carry, in fact a negative outcome is more probable.
Now, I may be wrong, and if you can show me some credible statistics to the contrary, I'll be happy to reconsider my stance. How many rapes have been averted by women carrying concealed weapons? How many rapes have been averted by guys carrying concealed weapons?
I know lots of gun carriers have shot people or waved guns at people over stuff they were protecting, but I don't remember too many where lives were in danger until the "victim" decided their shit was worth more than a human life. Maybe you think your car, or what is in your purse is worth killing for, as many who carry do. I hope you never have to find out.

[Lizzie Poppet]

35. Good. Same here.

"Unfortunately, the carrying of a weapon has a virtually zero effect on that likelihood [of becoming the victim of a violent crime]."

Got a cite for that? I recall reading that resistance with a firearm offered the best probability of avoiding harm in a violent crime scenario of any resistance method (including non-resistance). This was a good few years ago, however, and I don't recall the source. I'll look for it.

"The likelihood of a positive outcome is so remote for the majority of those who carry, in fact a negative outcome is more probable. "

Same request: source? I've seen lots of claims along the lines of "you have more chance of being shot with your own weapon than of shooting an attacker," but those claims never take into account defensive scenarios that do NOT include firing (which I think there is reason to believe constitute the majority...certainly my one and only DGU (defensive gun usage) went down like that).

There are, unfortunately, no reliable (or even vaguely adequate, IMO) statistics on crime prevention via civilian firearms. I consider every piece of research I've ever seen on this matter to be deeply methodologically flawed - and yes, that includes the ones that cite very high numbers of DGUs. The Achilles Heel of these studies lies in non-reporting of such incidents to the authorities...and it's my opinion that this occurs very frequently. I think a lot of generally law-abiding people have absolutely zero desire to involve the police in any aspect of their lives unless it's unavoidable. Studies that rely on official stats *grossly) under-report...and studies that rely on interviewing people w/o any way to verify their claims are subject to a huge "bullshit factor."

The upshot on this particular point is that each of us has to ely on an assessment without solid empirical backing...and we've arrived at different conclusions. No problem! =)

"I don't remember too many where lives were in danger until the "victim" decided their shit was worth more than a human life. "

How on earth could you possibly have even the slightest inkling of what the offender's intent was? Only the attacker has such knowledge. Absent the ability to read minds, the closest thing to reliable data on this point is that fewer offenders physically harm their victims than only rob them. However, a very significant minority of such criminals do assault, rape, and/or murder their victims (as a glance at crime stats makes utterly obvious). The question then is whether or not one considers that probability to be sufficient to justify arming oneself against it. That decision is influenced by one's situation (location, occupation, gender, etc.) and one's ability to prevent attack by other means (that is, are you physically capable of effective hand-to-hand self-defense, etc.).

I do not believe one is ethically required to assume that the potential attacker doesn't intend significant injury. As stated above, such intent is present in a statistically significant number of instances. That removes the "is your stuff worth a human life" question from the equation, as it's not my stuff I'm basing my decision on. It's my life vs theirs...and that's not a question I spend more than an instant answering.

[gejohnston]

13. Police say Paul admitted to trying to steal the car.

It's even more rude to jump in without asking.

[DonP]

14. That's like claiming the burglar in your home might have just stopped to ask for directions

Or mistook your house for his own ... 20 miles away.

Any excuse to shift the blame and accountability to the real victim from the criminal.

We had one near me last week (Harvey Illinois) where a store owner shot and killed an armed robber. The police found the bad guy on the floor with his ski mask still on and his gun next to him on the floor.

Then they found out he was the guy who had shot 2 cops the week before and just got out of prison in August on early release for an armed robbery sentence. But I'm sure he was about to turn his life around, ... right after he killed the clerk to eliminate the witness.

[Starboard Tack]

16. Did you see the size of the guy who was already sitting in the car?

Trying to steal it?
Seems like he was mentally incapacitated in some way. I guess both of them were, in different ways. It's a crazy world.

[ileus]

17. Exactly that's why he wasn't charged.

[Starboard Tack]

18. So, Way, Harmony, Spirit...the art of peace is within, includes sticking a gun to a guy's head?

Because he wasn't charged makes it OK? You have no clue what peace and harmony mean. You think that by carrying your gun around you are making a positive contribution to society, rather than contributing to the failure of society. You pose as a peaceful liberal, but you shill for the NRA and the wingnuts. I'm sure it's all part of that family fun thing. Have a Merry Xmas!

[ileus]

19. I prefer Merry Winter Solstice.

Xmas is just short for Christmas...but you knew that.

http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/xmasabbr.asp

^ I have to share this to my FB friends every year when they start whining that I'm taking the "Christ" out of Christmas.

And boy do they get pissed when I say their religion stole the idea from Winter Solstice.


Oh and another thing....Police say Paul admitted to trying to steal the car.

^ maybe he wasn't as innocent as you think.

[Starboard Tack]

20. I never said he was innocent and we should never doubt what the police say, right.

But I am with you on the Winter Solstice thing. I'm sure we agree on lots of things, just not teaching our kids that carrying guns around in public is OK, or that guns are cool and all part of family fun.

[bowens43]

26. Anyone who carries a concealed weapon should be in jail. Period.

[hack89]

27. Just get all 50 states to outlaw the practice - shouldn't be that hard. Nt

[petronius]

28. Any not-disqualified gun owner who wants to carry concealed should have the option

to do so, subject to a shall-issue permit with a comprehensive training requirement...

[ileus]

30. Any reason why?

What other legal activities would you like to jail citizens for?

[DonP]

31. Meh? Good for drive by snark and not much else.

But Illinois will be adding around 500,000 new people with CC permits next year, starting January 5th when applications are accepted. Instructors are already being approved for carry to test the online system.

Tides not running your way and shows no signs of changing, despite a whole shitload of wishful thinking in some other quarters and the whining by all the usual suspects in ATA.

Somehow, it's not only our fault that no one wants them in GD or visits the safe haven they demanded (aka Castle Bansalot) but also the reason they can't get any gun laws passed I guess?

Oh, if only people that didn't agree with them would just shut up and go away they could convince people to agree with them ... maybe.

They seem to bug Skinner in groups of 2 or 3 at a time. You'd almost think it was coordinated?

[Starboard Tack]

33. Unfortunately, that won't happen, because it is legal in the US

The rest of the world rolls it's eyes at this insanity, just as they did when Detroit was churning out those gas guzzlers for decades. All part of the American dream, I guess. Very sad.

[Jenoch]

37. Did you ever achieve the American Dream?

[Starboard Tack]

38. I guess I realized my own flavor of it. But I've always tried to dream realistically.

I wouldn't classify it as the standard American Dream by any means. I found as much and sometimes more freedom to pursue my desires, as in most European countries. I thoroughly enjoyed the 35 years I spent in the US and am now thoroughly enjoying the rest of the world, and the latter was always a huge part of my dream.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

34. I can see that happening...

...right after it starts raining beer.

[Lizzie Poppet]

36. Gosh, what a convincing, fact-based argument!