The Gun report, by Joe Nocera

[pscot]

It has been a year since my assistant, Jennifer Mascia, and I started publishing The Gun Report, an effort to use my blog to aggregate daily gun violence in America. Our methodology is pretty simple: We do a Google News search each weekday morning for the previous day’s shootings and then list them. Most days, we have been finding between 20 and 30 shootings; on Mondays, when we also add the weekend’s violence, the number is usually well over 100.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/04/opinion/nocera-the-gun-report-1-year-later.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

First, the biggest surprise, especially early on, was how frequently either a child accidentally shot another child — using a loaded gun that happened to be lying around — or an adult accidentally shot a child while handling a loaded gun. I have written about this before, mainly because these incidents seem so preventable. Gun owners simply need to keep their guns locked away. Indeed, one pro-gun reader, Malcolm Smith, told me that after reading “about the death toll, especially to children” in The Gun Report, he had come to believe that some gun regulation was necessary. He now thinks gun owners should be licensed and “should have to learn how to store guns safely.” No doubt he’ll be drummed out of the National Rifle Association for expressing such thoughts.

Second, the N.R.A. shibboleth that having a gun in one’s house makes you safer is demonstrably untrue. After The Gun Report had been up and running for a while, several Second Amendment advocates complained that we rarely published items that showed how guns were used to prevent a crime. The reason was not that we were biased against crime prevention; it was that it didn’t happen very often. (When we found such examples, we put them in The Gun Report.) More to the point, there are an increasing number of gun deaths that are the result of an argument — often fueled by alcohol — among friends, neighbors and family members. Sadly, cases like the recent shooting in a Florida movie theater — when one man killed someone who was texting during the previews — is not all that uncommon.
(more)

[clffrdjk]

1. At least secular motion claims to be interested in discussion.

You on the other hand "I won't play" is your answer when asked to expand on an opinion. Go back to your echo chamber.

[pscot]

3. This post is self explanatory

And this is not a game.

[clffrdjk]

5. Which post?

The one I quoted from? The one before that? Or the op here that gejohnston destroyed?

[pscot]

8. A real smackdown by ol' gejohnston

Proved beyond a doubt that sharks don't have guns and 62 kids shooting one another doesn't concern him all that much. That last is not something most folks would willingly admit to, but ge seems to be ok with it. I guess it's a matter of priorities..

[clffrdjk]

9. That's the best you can do?

No facts no figures just another call to emotion to go with your op. And don't you dare pretend to be against guns for the kids, if you really cared for the kids that much you have far bigger evils to chase down first. You know that, I know that, everybody knows it so why dont you stop hiding behind the kids and tell us the real reason you hate guns.

[pscot]

10. The kids aren't a good enough reason?

But what am I thinking. Of course they aren't, or Sandy Hook would have made an impression on you all. If you can dismiss dead children so casually, it's hard to imagine what sort of argument might cause you to think anew.

[clffrdjk]

11. Now who is dismissing more dead kids me or you?

Once again if it was the dead kids that drove you, you would be after swimming pools, cars, you know one of the top killers of kids. But no you choose guns why is that?
And don't give me any lines about those things having other uses, I mean hell they kill more than a weapon that as others have said has no other use but to kill. But you don't care about them there are guns to ban.

[pscot]

12. Yes, but we were speaking of guns

No amount of verbal legerdemain alters the fact that thousands of Americans die unnecessarily every year of gunshot wounds. You guys want to deny the butcher's bill. You do know that cars are subject to extensive regulation? You know about seat belts and seat belt laws? Airbags? Speed limits and Driver Training? Cars kill people so we fence them in with laws, regulations and safety rules. Drive drunk and you go to jail. But Guns? Oh no. The gun is sacred. The gun cannot be regulated. You can shoot your neighbor if he scares you. But if you run him down with your Cadillac there's not a jury in the country that's going to let you off. Oh, and by the way, I have said nothing about banning guns. That straw man gets dragged out in every "discussion" of our gun problem. It's pure NRA propaganda. You are singing from Wayne LaPierre's hymnbook.

[gejohnston]

14. actually, guns are regulated more than cars

they are far from unregulated. Not only have they been regulated on the federal level, the first law being passed in 1927, and by states since the founding. Being drunk while driving is a week in jail and higher insurance rates. Being drunk with a gun is a felony in most places. You can be any age to buy a car. You can go to the next state to buy a car and drive it home. Neither is true with guns. You don't have to have a background check to buy a car. Credit check only if you are not paying in cash. Sorry, false equivalence. Most of these shootings are committed by people who don't legally have them in places where they are strictly regulated or banned like DC and Chicago.

You can shoot your neighbor if he scares you. But if you run him down with your Cadillac there's not a jury in the country that's going to let you off.

depends on how your neighbor scares you. Also, it's pretty hard to claim self defense when you run someone down.

Oh, and by the way, I have said nothing about banning guns. That straw man gets dragged out in every "discussion" of our gun problem. It's pure NRA propaganda. You are singing from Wayne LaPierre's hymnbook.

Although you may not have, others have.

[pscot]

16. That is pure bullshit

[clffrdjk]

19. That wouldn't fly even in middle school debate club come on you can do better.

[gejohnston]

25. prove one thing I said was bullshit

[pscot]

26. Shovel your own shit

[DonP]

27. It's tired old shit ... but so are your posts on this

So guns aren't regulated like cars huh?

We give a drivers license to every seventeen-year-old high school student who can pass a lowest-common-denominator Drivers Ed course. A course that can be successfully passed by a lobotomized chimpanzee.

In a large percentage of cases, we even give drivers licenses to 16 year-old kids who state that they have a particular hardship.

Tell me, Mr or Ms. Gun Control "Fan", that you want to control and license guns just like cars. You'll give a gun license to every 17 year-old who qualifies -- just like a drivers license.

By the way, how long do you have to wait for Federal approval when you buy a new or used car? 3 days, 1 day? Which bureau runs the criminal background check and approves you for that purpose?

Any person who possesses a drivers license can drive on any public road on any state in the Union. They can drive on school grounds, they can drive on college campuses, and they can drive to any courthouse in the Union.

Tell me, Gun Control "Fan", that you want to control and license guns just like cars. You'll let anyone with a gun license carry a gun anywhere they want to, in every State in the Union -- just like a drivers license. De Blasio will love that idea I bet.

Drivers licenses issued by one State must be honored by all other States. Anyone with a Texas Drivers License can drive any car he (or she) wants to, anywhere in New York City that he can fit. And the New York authorities don't have a thing to say about the matter.

Tell me, you want to license guns just like cars. You'll let any 17 year-old cowboy from Bugscuffle, West Texas carry his gun anywhere he wants to in New York and tell the New York authorities they can't do anything about it -- just like a drivers license.

If you get caught driving a car without your drivers license, you get a $90 traffic ticket that comes off your record in three years.

Tell me that you want to license guns just like cars. Tell me that if that Texas cowpoke is visiting Chicago, and gets caught carrying his gun without his license, he gets a traffic citation -- just like a drivers license.

Tell me again that you want to license guns just like cars. You'll let everyone -- 17 to 70, felons, no mental checks, pay your money, take your test, here's your gun license -- just like a drivers license.

Hell, If I'm on private property, I don't even need a driver license to drive any car I want to, the only limit to the number of cars I can possess is the size of my bank account, I can buy as many cars at once as my wallet can stand, and I can buy a car off a street corner in Compton today, another from a back-yard in New York tomorrow, I can import cars as many as a I want, from any country that I want, and I can sell or trade any or all of them to anyone I want -- and the Federal Government doesn't have word one to say about the matter.

Tell us again how guns aren't regulated?

[Duckhunter935]

28. he can't

amazing they go quiet or result to name calling when presented with facts

[clffrdjk]

15. No we were talking about dead kids.

I am specifically wondering why you place more value in gun deaths than any other types of death.
If you want to talk about guns I am open to it but we will have to move over to the outdoor life board. What gun did you want to talk about?
And once again do you have a copy of that NRA play book you keep mentioning, I would be really interested in seeing it?

As to your other claims thanks again gejohnston.

[pscot]

17. How many children killed other children with cars

last year?

[clffrdjk]

18. I don't know why don't you tell me?

Are you now trying to claim that kids who kill other kids is what drives you? Just how many times should I let you change your story?

[pscot]

20. I feel like I've wandered into a Monty Python sketch

Your answers are not responsive. You just endlessly repeat the chatecism of Wayne, in an endless loop.

[clffrdjk]

21. You keep claiming that but I have yet to see this holy book of Wayne you keep referring to.

First you want to talk about the deaths of kids, then you want to talk about guns, then to kids that kill kids and now you claim I am unresponsive? Just how could you determine that through all of your changing of the subject?

[gejohnston]

2. why I never read op eds

First, the biggest surprise, especially early on, was how frequently either a child accidentally shot another child — using a loaded gun that happened to be lying around.

No, it is surprising how often it is reported. According to the CDC, there were 62 cases last year.

More to the point, there are an increasing number of gun deaths that are the result of an argument — often fueled by alcohol — among friends, neighbors and family members.

No there isn't. Such cases are actually rare, and often involving people who don't legally own the guns to begin with. The rate is actually dropping, it is just being reported more often.
Prime example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_the_Shark
Also see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_circus

What it does prove is that being a pundit doesn't take education, analytical skills, critical thinking skills, or actually know anything on any subject. All you need is a basic grasp of the language and the ability to bullshit. Most pundits are politicians are usually fairly stupid people.

[DonP]

4. Oh boy! "Guns in the News" version 5.0

I note that these Guns in the News articles seem to carefully overlook the daily murders in Chicago and DC. Let me help you out with an update.

This weekend was a light one for criminals in Chicago. Freezing weather and 49 inches of snow have slowed down the bloodshed temporarily.

Three people were wounded in shootings early Sunday and Saturday on the south and west sides.

Most recently, a 19 year old man took himself to Norwegian-American Hospital about 3 a.m. for treatment of a gunshot wound to the toe which happened when he accidentally shot himself in the 4100 block of West Crystal Street in the West Humboldt Park neighborhood on the West Side, police said. (I wonder if he had his FOID card with him when he got to the hospital?)

His injuries were not life threatening.

In an earlier attack about 9 p.m. Saturday in the 5900 block of South Paulina Street in the city's Englewood community on the South Side, someone shot a teen in the leg, said Chicago Police Department News Affairs Officer Hector Alfaro. The 16-year-old boy was in a house when he heard shots and felt pain, police said; the victim and witnesses were uncooperative. (Imagine that no one would say how he got shot?)

[Eleanors38]

23. I can see it: This special interest aggregater stamps out "newz"...

And all of it ends up in GD! Best hot-wiring available!

[Eleanors38]

6. Unfortunately his "Gun Report" will keep the NRA in fighting trim. nt

[pscot]

13. Fuck the NRA

[Eleanors38]

22. Somebody must love them.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. The NRA wouldn't want Nocera and his fans to act any differently...

...because a) they're demonstrably ineffectual, and b) verbiage of the sort quoted in the
OP works wonders in getting their members to donate and rejoin.

[ileus]

7. Chance you gotta take.