How do you know the things you know about guns?

[petronius]

Various proposals toward firearm regulation focus on firearms technology and type (e.g., assault weapon bans). Terminology gets flung about: assault weapon, large/small caliber, assault rifle, bolt action, semi-automatic, automatic, magazine, clip, revolver, scope, machine gun, etc etc etc.

So, for the people who participate in these discussions in this Group, what would you say is your primary source of knowledge about firearms technology? (If more than one, choose the main one and elaborate below.)

21 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Personal experience - e.g. hunting, target shooting, competition
	15 (71%)
	Professional experience - e.g. military training, law enforcement
	4 (19%)
	Self-directed research - e.g. internet search, magazines, shop visits
	1 (5%)
	Information from 'gun control' organizations
	0 (0%)
	Information from 'gun rights' organizations
	0 (0%)
	Television, movies, and other entertainments
	0 (0%)
	News reports and op-eds
	0 (0%)
	Other (specified below)
	0 (0%)
	This is an unimportant (goofy, useless, irrelevant) question, for the reason(s) specified below
	1 (5%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[rrneck]

1. Numbers 1 and 3.

Number three from fooling around here.

[oneshooter]

2. Numbers 1 and 2. I was trained as an Armourer by the USMC.

[sarisataka]

3. I picked professional experience

but hobby and education are nearly on par.

For discussion purposes I don't have much issue with specific terminology; magazine or clip doesn't matter as long as all parties understand what is being talked about.

When it comes to making law however, terminology is very important. To define certain rifles as 'assault rifles' and place that in law is akin defining Schedule II narcotics as 'strong painkillers' and expecting people to comply with the 'spirit' of the law.

[Peregrine]

4. trained on a M16

After basic, never used one again. Carried an M1911 in a shoulder holster when assigned to a tactical unit and was in uniform. Carried a SW .38 revolver when I was in civilian dress when assigned to strategic units.

[Duckhunter935]

5. 1 and 2

20 years military and after that target shooting at the range with different types of weapons.

[Eleanors38]

6. 1 and 3. Also, gun owner's manual. Yes, Martha...

they do exist, and will be mailed to you free of charge, even if you purchase a used arm. (Over the last 25+ yrs, the manufacturer & its address has been impressed into the gun barrel in what has become known as the "billboard.&quot Loading, unloading, safe handling, maintenance steps w/ pictures, and of course the exploded picture with a parts list.

Many useful web sites covering any aspects of firearms. Great safety culture is developing from this, IMO.

[Loudly]

7. What kind of firearms is as futile an inquiry as who should have them.

Public policy should be directed toward making them all scarce.

[krispos42]

10. Which puts Republicans in charge

Which means that society will deteriorate.

[Loudly]

11. Society must deteriorate so that society won't deteriorate.

Not very compelling.

[krispos42]

16. Exactly my point.

Gun control, even gun prohibition, will not address domestic abuse, or child abuse, or a dozen other things. But we can't address those dozen-plus other things if you are hell-bent on waging a war against people that want to own rifles with protruding pistol grips.

Addressing the conditions that make violence common will by the very nature of things save lives. But you being hell-for-leather for punishing the "stupid gun-huggers that simply can't see how much their fetish is harming society" will put THEM in the voting booth and REPUBLICANS in the government. And we know how much damage those fuckers can do when they're in office, don't we?

[Loudly]

17. I do blame them for Scalia and Thomas.

Who bear the greatest blame for Heller and McDonald.

With which decisions you agree.

So um. Yeah, Republicans suck.

[hack89]

42. Do you agree with Windsor? Nt

[Loudly]

43. Scalia dissented from Windsor, and Thomas joined in the dissent.

Why do you ask?

[friendly_iconoclast]

12. That's the most forthright argument for willful ignorance I've ever seen

Congratulations, sharesunited- you've managed to best
any number of god-botherers of various sorts, an achievement I doubted would ever happen

[NYC_SKP]

13. It's the only game they have. Honest discourse would lead to defeat of their arguments.

Except for those positions upon which we all agree, and on these they even refuse to acknowledge agreement, all they've got are logical fallacies, biased studies, and insults.

And this is an example of the desire to keep others ignorant.

If enough voters (and legislators, for that matter) truly knew the difference between semi and full auto, for example, they'd have a much harder time passing their shit restrictions.

[Loudly]

15. How does the "shell" game of inquiry into such things possibly relate to this?

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/Critical-Injuries-in-Drive-by-Shooting-253139181.html

[Jgarrick]

18. How exactly do you propose confiscating 300 million+ firearms, billions of magazines,

and hundreds of billions of rounds of ammunition?

[Loudly]

19. Confiscation? How about turning off the spigot of new units?

You can't turn around a runaway train. It's got to slow down and stop first.

[clffrdjk]

20. There it is folks

That one thing that nearly every anti gun person says nobody wants.

[Loudly]

21. Your paranoia and your gun love are co-dependents.

[clffrdjk]

28. What paranoia?

You just suggested confiscation.

[Jgarrick]

23. So you propose making the manufacture of all firearms, magazines, and ammunition illegal.

What do you think the chances of such a thing coming to pass in, let's say, the next 50 years are? I'll say 0%.

What's your estimate?

[Loudly]

24. 58 years from Plessy v. Ferguson to Brown v. Board of Education.

So I'd give it considerably better odds than zero.

[Jgarrick]

27. How likely is that? 1%? 20%? 90%? Please be specific.

[benEzra]

49. And how many years elapsed from the bans on pot, morphine, and alcohol

until those things were eradicated from society?

Oh, wait...

FWIW, non-automatic civilian guns are WAY more complicated than submachineguns, while being less capable. If you drive all gun manufacturing underground, guess what you end up with more of?

It's also a lot easier to conduct background checks on gun-dealer sales than it is to do background checks on black market subguns. What kind of gun culture do you want?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

50. I'd say infinitely better odds...

...since anything/0 is.......really big.

[NYC_SKP]

22. I see they blocked you from their group.

I hope you took a shower and washed your hands...

[Jgarrick]

25. Dissension from their philosophy of civilian disarmament is too much for them to bear.

I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did when I presented them with an opinion that differed from that which is allowed in Castle Bansalot.

[NYC_SKP]

32. I, too, was surprised.

But's it's so quiet over there and they're so ineffectual that when they are challenged, they first start to challenge, then start namecalling (Bubba), and if there are enough of them awake then they swarm.

It didn't seem that many were on line but then one of them, rdharma, was just banned and one of their hosts quit the site in October, and did another regular poster who got shut down by skinner.

[beevul]

35. Wow, its true. rdharma got a pizza.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300604


We should be able to say that he shares that honor with another former poster, and that they are united by their silence...

One can only wonder why we can't.

[oneshooter]

45. He asked to be banned.

[NYC_SKP]

46. True.

And then there's apocalypsehow.

They had that ridiculous sigline that read:

'RKBA,' 'pro-2nd amendment,' and 'pro gun rights' are code words for pro-racist, pro-sexist, pro-homophobic, and pro-white supremacist views. It is that simple. Thanks!

They left with tail between legs after this:

Star Member Skinner
1. I'm not going to count up alerts. But I will say this...

That person has been crowing for weeks about the number of alerts (allegedly) sent about his sig line, even going so far as to state the the number of alerts that were allegedly sent.

He has no clue what he is talking about. There is no way for a DU member to know an alert was sent against them unless a post is hidden or a juror shares the alert with them. In the case of this person's sig line, the actual number of alerts sent was negligible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12591326#post1

Before checking out, they changed the sigline to read:

It's been fun, folks. But when the umpire openly declares support for one team on the field - and also decides to publicly play fast, loose, & coy with the batting score as a manifestation of that support - it's time to move on. I wish nothing but the best for you all, friend & foe alike. Take care, stay cool, and drink one for me every once in a while. You folks are the best.

Which is made even more laughable by their DU2 profile statement:

More likely than not you are here because I have bested you in some thread debate, and a sense of pitiful frustration at your own shockingly limited intellect in comparison to mine has angered you greatly. You are here hoping to find some "personal" info to attack me with, as is the wont of those on the losing end of internet debates - ridiculing my occupation, my hometown, my marital status, etc. Sucks to be you, huh?

It's remarkable.

[wall_dish]

48. Quite the ego that one.

Wish I were here then to watch the burn out.

[DashOneBravo]

26. My view

Public policy should be to reduce crime by eliminating the root cause. Poverty, unemployment, broken families and no hope for a future. That's what we need to address and change.

Prisons have no guns and it's one of most violent places on earth. That's the reason most of them are there.

Some people want to ban guns, most have some agenda. See below.

the right-wing NRA/ALEC/Koch Brothers political machine

The stuff on that forum and what SecMo posts in here only divides us more. But he's welcome to post here while he blocks anyone posting in that forum.

Wonder why?

[beevul]

34. What makes you think folks would obey the rules any more than you do?

What makes you think folks would obey the rules any more than you do?

The rules here on DU were designed to make people who behave like you do scarce, yet here you are - for example.

[jeepnstein]

8. I grew up hunting.

It was a family thing and some of the best days I ever had with my dad were spent watching squirrels play in the trees. We were both quite good shots. Hunting for us was more about time in the woods and stalking than actually shooting anything. We ate what we killed but most often didn't bother bringing anything home.

Later I learned how to fight with a gun in the police academy. It's a totally different world than what I learned as a hillbilly kid hunting for rabbits and squirrels. I don't hunt any more.

[krispos42]

9. Multiple sources

Non-military, non-law-enforcement recreational shooting combined with a lot of reading (books, magazines, internet, catalogs), combined with what I learned about stuff in engineering school.



I guess mostly reading; real shooting is expensive.

[NYC_SKP]

14. Other, 1 and 3. Mostly 1. Guns were in every household within 20 miles. Rural. Agricultural.

It's how it was and still is out there.

Hunting seasons included dove, duck, and pheasant.

The rest of the year plinking and the occasional critter going after our chickens or whatever.

I know, shocking and frightening.

[Adsos Letter]

29. 1&2

Grew up with 'em, and was in a combat arms unit in the Army.

[DebJ]

30. I see dead people. Nuff said. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

31. Hunter's safety class and shooting with my family as kid. nt

[Oakenshield]

33. Personal Experience.

I go hunting with my older brother every September, and occasionally we visit the range. While I've handled shotguns, semi-automatic pistols, revolvers, Lever-guns and bolt-action rifles I'm generally a crappy shot...so I usually let him do most of the shooting.

[SkatmanRoth]

36. A well rounded education draws from many sources

A person seeking knowledge will be prepared to find it in a vast array of places. Even a pure fiction action movie could contain a tidbit to be absorbed.

Ya' recon Tom Clancey did research and put actual facts into any of his novels?

[ileus]

37. 36 years of OHT....

On the Hobby Training.

Been around firearms since I was 8.

[S_B_Jackson]

38. 1, 3, and indirectly 2

Was taught to shoot by my grandfather, father, aunt and uncle...
Grandfather was a former top kick (1st Sergeant) in the late 30s and throughout WWII, certified as a firearms and demolitions expert. A demanding harsh taskmaster on the subject of firearms and safety practices....his is the voice (with memorable, colorful language) I hear in my head to this day when handling firearms.

Dad graduated West Point and served in Korea, and my eldest aunt probably was the best of them with a shotgun in the field (she's still alive, but does not shoot much any longer other than her little Beretta Bobcat .25 ACP).

On the legal aspects of shooting, that's mostly been self-researched.

[beemer27]

39. The first three

The first three all apply to me.

[Lizzie Poppet]

40. One and Three, mostly.

I've been shooting since I was a little girl. Dad's also an avid shooter (and former hunter, although he switched to cameras for that pursuit years ago). Dad was certainly my first source of gun knowledge. I've done a fair bit of competitive shooting (mostly silhouette and long-range paper matches), so a lot of the more detailed technical knowledge I've gained has been from other competitors, although that tends to be in the areas of reloading and specific to the rifles used for that sort of thing. The more basic stuff I picked up from various gun publications/websites (although I don't enjoy having to wade through RW political bullshit on some of them).

[hack89]

41. One and two. Nt

[Lurks Often]

44. The first three

I've been a soldier and been a competitive shooter for more then 20 years and will research firearms that I find different or interesting.

I have a lot of practical, hands on experience, I've fired everything from a replica Civil War cap & ball revolver to a MK19 40mm grenade launcher, including a number of full auto weapons although I don't own full auto weapons myself.

[SQUEE]

47. One, Two and Three.

Military and civilian firearms training and education, HK and Colt armorers training, and work with IWI and IMI.
I feel I learned far more about firearms, both theory and practical usage as a civilian.
As a grunt if my bang-stick went boom, it was all good, especially since most of my career involved carrying an LMG.
It was only toward the end of my Mil career did I really start to study and learn about things like ballistics, trajectory, wound channels and terminal ballistics in general. And further schools and classes as a civie has led me to actually disregard much of my military theory and training, there is a lot of mis/dis info rattling around inside your average GIs head, I'd say more so than even LEOs.

[Jackpine Radical]

55. Yeah, I can't believe the things the DI's used to think were true

about our weapons. I had a long familiarity with firearms prior to being drafted. Had handloaded all sorts of stuff--.38 & .357 pistols, .35 Rem autoloaders, .30-06, .30 carbine, .257 Roberts, 12 ga., & knew quite a bit about ballistics, projectile energy, ballistic coefficients, etc.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

51. 1, 3, 6 and 7

Mostly 1.

[tularetom]

52. Primarily 1, but 2 and 3 as well

[Glorfindel]

53. No. 1 and No. 2

I grew up in the mountains of north Georgia. You learn to shoot almost as soon as you learn to walk. I got a .22 rifle for Christmas when I was 10. I never liked hunting (neither did my father) and never killed anything but snakes with a gun. I got drafted in 1966 and learned the military method of shooting on an M14 at Fort Benning, GA. We were issued a rifle in Vietnam, but we paid the armorer to keep them cleaned for us and never used them. I did have a .45 pistol in my desk, but had no occasion to fire it, thank goodness.

[Jackpine Radical]

54. The first 3.

I hunted since I was old enough until just a few years ago. I used to handload for rifle, pistol & shotgun (multiple calibers). I qualified Expert in the Army on the 106 Recoilless Rifle, the M-16, the M-14, and the .45 ACP.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

56. Voted #1.

Our families members have all owned firearms of all different types. Some avid hunters, others enthusiasts. Wife and I and some friends hit the range four or five times a year. Aside from the one I carry on me, they're all locked in a safe when we're not in possession of them.

[oneofthe99]

57. Carolyn McCarthy , the news , MSNBC , watching the news about Newtown

Last edited Sun Apr 6, 2014, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[mog75]

58. poll fail

Why isn't there a "I know absolutely nothing about firearms, but they frighten me so they should be confiscated " choice on the poll? The people who think that way are leading the second amendment prohibition wing of our party.

[SQUEE]

59. See post directly above yours...

Same thing