Why guns scare me.

[davidthegnome]

I recently posted this in another thread - but I wanted to get an idea of how people would react to a situation like the one I describe. I've always been a supporter of the Second Amendment, for me, it has a lot to do with where I live and the large number of hunters who live in the area. I've always felt that people should have a right to own fire arms for hunting, for self defense, if their work requires them - and so on. I support this for reasonable, educated, responsible gun owners. For people who understand how dangerous fire arms are and that they should not be a tool for bullies or idiots.

That said - some of the people I have seen walking around with fire arms scare the crap out of me. Not too long ago, I had to deal with a situation in which someone who was wearing a gun insulted me, taunted me - and basically pushed me well past the edge of anger and fear. I wonder what would have happened in this situation if I had reacted differently - been more aggressive, or open about my anger. If I had stood up to a person who was bullying me instead of reacting with the corporate smile and neutral language. If I had lost my self control in a moment of high stress, I wonder if I might have ended up dead or injured.

Anyway, below is the situation I experienced - and I'd like to get some feedback on whether folks here think such a person as the one who I dealt with should be legally permitted to open carry.
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I work for the front desk of a hotel - I had a pretty awful situation just a few weeks back. A guest came to me in an absolute fury. The man was so angry he was shaking. "Why the (expletive) was the door to my room left open!?!?"

I was in the middle of checking in a guest, but I had to pause to deal with this. "Sir, I don't know, it's possible that one of our housekeepers might have forgotten to close it, we have a few in training right now... I'm very sorry, let me finish checking in this guest then I'll be happy to help you however I can..."

"WHY WAS THE DOOR TO MY ROOM OPEN?!?!?" I use caps to emphasize how loud he was. This was a pretty muscular older fellow (mid fifties, at a guess), probably 6'2, who's company (some sort of mercenaries) contracts with border patrol - he was from Louisiana. Bald headed, very red in the face and on the top of his head by now. At this point I noticed the gun on his hip and was starting to get a bit nervous.

"Sir, I'm sorry, I don't know... if you'll..."

"Well find out! If there's anythin' missin' you fuckers are gonna buy me a new wardrobe!"

The guest I was checking in at the time was apparently someone who worked with him. "He's had a real bad day. Good luck dealing with that one". I smiled nervously, finished the check in process and sent the guest to his room. Then I quickly called the manager who was out shopping for some things for our restaurant, to let her know what was going on.

I have a very easy-going personality. I'm one of those live and let-live people. I don't like confrontations - and I have some real issues with anxiety. By this point, I was starting to pace a bit, fidgeting with my shirt collar, and wondering if eight dollars an hour was really worth it.

The guest returned to the desk, about ten minutes after the initial confrontation. "Well, yer lucky there's nothin missin, you little shithead. Now, I'm expectin' a free meal and a free room fer the night after this shit. You better make sure that happens, boy."

Now I'm thirty, not exactly a boy, but I'm often told that look younger than I am. In any event, it's been a while since anyone I didn't know well has called me boy.

"Sir, I don't have the authority to offer you that. Our manager should be returning soon and I'm sure that she will be happy to discuss this with you. I am very sorry for your inconven..."

"Well, that just figures. Ya can't do much of nothin', can ya, ya little fucker? Are ya tellin' me that yer company don't care? Are ya tellin' me that management doesn't give a shit?"

At this point, he was wearing a little smirk, the fingers of his right hand tapping the handle of his holstered weapon.

"No Sir, that's not what I'm saying. It's just that I can't..."

"Whatever. Get yer manager ta meet me in the restaurant. I'll wait fer someone who can actually do shit. Can ya at least give me a free meal?"

I was trying very hard not to totally lose it at this point, I was feeling a very nervous mixture of anger and fear. "Sir, I'm sorry, I cannot authorize that."

The man's smirk became a sneer. "If ya think this is angry, boy, you ain't never seen me angry and ya don't want to. I'm bein' nice right now."

There were a few MORE verbal exchanges, but the man eventually wandered off to the restaurant, leaving me feeling well beyond flustered and shaking. I had a pretty awful panic attack and it was very fortunate that no one else needed me for the next half hour.

When my Manager came in, I explained what had happened, with some stuttering and obvious frustration. I can't remember the last time I was so angry, or so frightened.

To summarize (as this is already an extraordinarily long post) our manager, a woman in her mid fifties who is just shy of five feet tall, walks with a constant limp (earned from years of hard work) and definitely does not look intimidating... went down to talk to the guest. He started yelling at her and she would not tolerate it. "Sir, there's no reason to yell." Anyway, he eventually apologized (to her) for the way he acted. She explained that what had happened wasn't my fault, told him he'd had no reason to take it out on me, and so on.

At the end of the night? That gentleman was comped the rest of his stay and several meals at our restaurant. I went home that night dreaming wistfully of better employment.

What really freaks me out is that people like that guy are not terribly stable to begin with. To have them walking around with open carry laws and stand your ground laws... dealing with people who are pretty much defenseless... it's a very frightening notion.

Maybe I should find a good cave to live in.

[Starboard Tack]

1. There is a good cave. It's called most of the rest of the world.

Great story btw. You might want to consider writing for a living. I doubt you'll get much sympathy around here, unfortunately. Probably tell you to get yourself a gun, so you can deal with bullies like this guy. I don't think the fact he was carrying openly made your experience worse than if he'd been carrying concealed and flexing his bulge.

[davidthegnome]

6. Thank you

Not sure I would have noticed if he'd been flexing a concealed weapon, unless he'd been very obvious about it. It's just not usually something I'd think about. "Hey, is that bulge a concealed weapon? Or is he just really happy to see me?" With that guy though, I think I would have felt the threat of physical violence whether he'd had a gun or not. It was in his body language, his expressions, the tone of his voice. What the gun did was make his threat more real, more up close and personal... and, ultimately, more deadly.

The whole situation reminded me of kids on the playground who bullied me as a child. Even one event in particular in which they stood in a circle and pushed me around, until someone finally had the decency to punch me in the face and take me down for a while - ruining their fun. The difference here was that this was a single bully who was far more dangerous, as well as being armed with a weapon that, within a second or two, could have splattered my brains all over the hotel desk.

I'd love to write for a living, but I have some issues with my writing. Grammar, sentence structure - even descriptive writing are, to some extent, difficulties of mine. The genre I enjoy the most (fantasy and sci-fi) tends to require rather elaborate descriptive writing. I can describe a human being pretty well - but their clothing? The hill they're standing on? Maybe not so much. I think my ability needs a lot of polishing - but it is my goal to write for a living some day.

I don't think I'd ever want to own a gun myself. Maybe if it was the end of the world and we were living in a zombie apocalypse or something... but, generally, guns scare me. The simple knowledge that all someone has to do is point and pull the trigger - and bam, lights out.

[NYC_SKP]

7. Guns are in every single other part of the world.

This bully presumably has a job that allows him to carry, as opposed to an open carry gun nut a la Texas Open Carry.

[Starboard Tack]

9. They exist, but they are rarely objects of adoration like they are in the US

More like tools of last resort. In the dozen or so countries I've lived in, I've never known anyone refer to guns as "personal safety devices" or objects of "family fun", nor have I ever encountered a douchebag like the bully in the OP.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Be that as it may, I can't condone a variant of the war on drugs to reduce violence.

Education education education. And we need to change the culture incrementally, including but not limited to boycotting games and movies that glorify gunplay.

We need to enlighten our communities with kindness and information, not with authoritarian dictates.

And punish the abusers, for a long time.

And, get guns out of the hands of those who abuse them, but NOT by taking them away from everyone.

(not that you personally are suggesting any of this)

Sadly, too often attempts to discuss rational ways to reduce crime and violence with guns, our suggestions are met with this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12626916

[Starboard Tack]

14. I agree, a variant of the war on drugs is not the answer.

Though it could be argued that there is little equivalency between drugs and firearms, apart from their availability and marketability.
You are right about education, education, education. And changing the culture.
I also agree that "authoritarian dictates" are not the answer, but we need to define what we mean by that. When laws are enacted to curb certain types of behavior, are they necessarily authoritarian dictates?
Boycotts can be effective, if the corporate bottom line is affected, though I think good parenting is a better tool when it comes to video games and movies. And I'm not so sure about how much they influence real life behaviior. We read about the exceptions, the anomalies like the 12 year old girls who stabbed their friend to appease a virtual character in a game. Then there was Ted Bundy who claimed he was motivated by porn. There is good argument on the other side suggesting that these games, movies and porn are healthy outlets and actually help defuse a lot of potentially violent acting out.
I think what we have to ask ourselves, as a society, is when enough is enough and regardless of the fact that only a tiny minority of individuals are responsible for outrageous acts of violence, some drastic action needs to be taken. Every individual, every group of people, every society has its breaking point. For the UK it was Dunblane. One guy fucked things up for everyone else, but that one incident was enough for the general public to say "enough!", even though such an event may never have happened again. And, of course, it still may happen again, though it is far less likely, as handguns are very difficult to come by and the penalties are very high.
The US has not reached its threshold and may never do so.

I saw the link you shared and agree that the lack of civil discussion was unfortunate. There seems to be very little discussion over there, unfortunately. And there is not enough constructive discussion here, though there is some. Way too much defensiveness and polarization going on. Very little flexibility of thought.

[gejohnston]

2. was he carrying one legally?

is he a gangster? Drug dealer? Cop?

[davidthegnome]

4. From my limited understanding...

He works for a company that contracts with border patrol. I don't know all the details of what the job entails or what he does, what permits he may have and so on.

Not (as far as I know) a gangster or a drug dealer. Not a cop. Just an angry man with a gun who has something to do with border patrol.

[gejohnston]

5. a badge heavy rent a cop

private security and police don't always attract the best people to their ranks.
while I agree with E38 that open carry protesters are the "2A's PETA", he is likely attracted to that job because he is that kind of guy, gun or not.

[Eleanors38]

3. Sounds like you did the right thing. I support the Second...

...and have never faced a situation remotely similar to yours, gun or no, in my entire life.

Sounds like this freebie-bully is living in a world according to Yelp.

[sarisataka]

8. I cannot make a judgement

based on a single second hand incident. Speculation is that there may be reason to re-evaluate his permit status.

Depending on your company, IMO you would have been well within your rights to call the police, even without the gun. Actually touching even a holstered gun while being belligerent is an implied threat

[Lurks Often]

11. I would have called the cops and told them I felt I was being threatened

I'm not easily intimated, so I probably would have made the 911 call while he was right there, just to watch the look on his face. However you could have certainly waited until he went to his room to call the police.

You didn't specify what state you lived in, so I can't speak to whether or not a non-resident is permitted open-carry under your state laws.

While I don't open carry, I do recognize that 99% of those who do aren't looking for trouble, aren't doing it to make a political statement and are doing it more because it is simply more convenient that way. When the weather starts getting into 90+ degree heat and 70%+ humidity, a covering garment, however light, sucks to wear and pretty much indicates CCW to anyone really paying attention.

[blueridge3210]

12. Were the police called?

You have an individual cursing, speaking loudly, and "tapping a weapon", generally behaving aggressively. Was he a valued repeat customer? If not, why not refund his money and invite him to stay in another facility?

[Jenoch]

13. From reading your post

it appears you know your job and do it well. Your certainly deserve more than 8 bucks an hour.

You handled the situation well and I do not know what you could have dine better. There are hotheads in all walks of life. You did get a response from an anti-RKBA DUer who used crap talking points from those who wish to curtail RKBA. most people would not have reacted in the same manner this man did.

I too would have asked why my door was wide open. Tgat is a concern and I hope your manager investigated to find out how it happened.