Guns everywhere: Georgia man shoots self in hand outside bar, stray bullet kills woman

[doxydad]

Police believe a man outside a bar in Georgia accidentally shot himself in the hand, and the same bullet killed a woman across the street........... Officers soon learned that a Texas woman across the street had been shot by the same bullet that traveled through Lampien’s hand. Attempts to save the woman at the scene were not successful, and she was pronounced dead............

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/guns-everywhere-georgia-man-shoots-self-in-hand-outside-bar-stray-bullet-kills-woman/

More senseless gun killings.

[IronGate]

1. And he'll be charged,

with involuntary manslaughter.

[Fred Sanders]

2. Should be charged with voluntary gun loving, only after a stint in the mental health ward......

Gun loving is a terrible addiction, a preventable public health crisis and curable mental disease.

[mikeysnot]

4. word.

[IronGate]

7. Yeeaaahhh, ok, whatever you say.

[mikeysnot]

15. yes, what he says and

a majority of Americans believe...

[IronGate]

16. No, it's not.

But if you have a link proving your assertion, then I'll look at it.

[mikeysnot]

17. Sure show me your link?

That proves me wrong.

[IronGate]

18. You're the one claiming that the majority of Americans agree with you and Fred,

it's up to you to prove it with a link.
Or is it that you can't provide a link proving it?

[mikeysnot]

22. I made the claim

you prove me wrong, that is the way it works.

[IronGate]

24. Not the way it works,

you made the claim, now, back it up with proof.
Gotta wonder why you're balking at providing a link to what you claim.

[mikeysnot]

28. Boom there it is!

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

your turn, by by these polling results we can see whose side your on.

[IronGate]

33. Boom, you're wrong.

You and Fred are claiming that "gun loving" is a mental disease and that most Americans agree with you two.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post2

Fred Sanders (3,216 posts)

2. Should be charged with voluntary gun loving, only after a stint in the mental health ward......
Gun loving is a terrible addiction, a preventable public health crisis and curable mental disease.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post15

mikeysnot (2,293 posts)

15. yes, what he says and
a majority of Americans believe...

Now please provide a link that proves that most Americans believe that.

[mikeysnot]

38. I did.

[clffrdjk]

42. Where?

I didn't see anything related to your claim in your link.

[mikeysnot]

57. read the link.

[clffrdjk]

59. I read it all

So which poll do you think proves your claim?

[mikeysnot]

83. keep spinning

Show me a link to a poll that says otherwise...

[clffrdjk]

85. You made the claim it a your responsibility to prove it.

[mikeysnot]

88. spin again.

I proved my point. I just agreed with Fred. Not going to prove his point until you prove that it is not.

[clffrdjk]

90. His post was completely opinion

And one tha can be dismissed as lunacy. You were the one who asserted that the majority agreed with his opinion. But you knew that already bucause this is the third time I have explained it to you.

[mikeysnot]

96. I did a search on polls regarding his opinion

and there is not one, so there is no way to prove either way until one is conducted, now get back to MY POINT...

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

[clffrdjk]

107. Your point?

You posted that as evidence supporting you previous statement of the majority agreeing with another's opinion. What exactly it the point you are trying to get to?

[mikeysnot]

119. Obviously it went over your head by now

I would just be wasting my time explaining it to you... again.

[IronGate]

60. I've read it forwards, backwards, sideways, upside down, and damned if I can find

what you and Fred are agreeing with.

[mikeysnot]

65. duh. what are we agreeing with?

[clffrdjk]

67. Still nothing dealing with your claim

Gun loving is a terrible addiction, a preventable public health crisis and curable mental disease.

[mikeysnot]

68. didn't post that.

Next.

[IronGate]

70. You agreed with Fred that it was.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post15

[mikeysnot]

76. Poster boy!

[IronGate]

78. Posting pics of Teddy?

How juvenile.
Still can't prove what you and Fred agree on?

[mikeysnot]

80. teddy????????????????/

cause he is a pillar of stability....

Juvenile? your the one posting emoticons... my 11 year old likes sending those to his friends too.

[IronGate]

82. You're desperation reeks dude.

Still won't highlight that section of the poll which says that most Americans agree that "gun loving" is a mental disease?

[mikeysnot]

84. And you are desperate to change the subject...

Look at the results in the link for

"Do you support or oppose stricter gun control laws in the United States?"

[IronGate]

89. So, tell how that proves that most Americans agree that "gun loving" is a mental disease? nt.

[mikeysnot]

95. So, tell how that proves that most Americans agree on more gun control? nt.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

[IronGate]

98. I see you're still not showing where in that poll

that most Americans agree that "gun loving" is a mental disease.

[mikeysnot]

101. you epic failure is almost comedic

so going forward since you changed the subject again, which is clearly your MO...

I have determined that you are here just to waste peoples time, by engaging in logical fallacies.

Construct straw man arguments.

Argue in circles with points that you cannot prove yourself.

Side with Republicans.

Side with armed coward stalkers.

[IronGate]

102. Epic failure?

You're the one who agreed with Fred that "gun loving" was a mental disease and when asked to provide a link proving it, you provide a poll on gun control that had nothing to do with yours and Fred's assertation.
You want to talk about epic fail? Try looking in the mirror.
Have a nice day, I'm done with you and your gibberish.

[mikeysnot]

105. spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and

spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and you know no poll exists so you are neither right or wrong.

[clffrdjk]

72. Around and around we go

Here let me quote myself.

56. No you did not but you did claim that a majority including you agreed with it.

[mikeysnot]

74. Around and around you go

I have to provide a link to back up my opinion?

I never said it or claimed that a majority.

But my link you ignore does back up my opinion that a majority of people want gun control.

You do realize that the only people that don't want more gun control are republicans?

You doooo realize this is the Democratic Underground website...

[clffrdjk]

77. Nice try

I never said it or claimed that a majority.

15. yes, what he says and a majority of Americans believe...
Have a nice day.
Nice try

But my link you ignore does back up my opinion that a majority of people want gun control.

that was never your claim but good effort with trying to move the goal posts.

I have to provide a link to back up my opinion?

you represented it as a fact not an opinion, and yes fact are provable and it should be easy to do so.

You do realize that the only people that don't want more gun control are republicans?

another opinion being claimed as a fact?

[IronGate]

43. No, you really didn't.

Please highlight the portion where it says that most Americans believe that "gun loving" is a mental disease.

[mikeysnot]

54. I did not say that.

But I agree with it...

[clffrdjk]

56. No you did not but you did claim that a majority including you agreed with it.

[IronGate]

58. Fred said it and you agreed with him, so, yeah, you did say so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post15

mikeysnot (2,293 posts)

15. yes, what he says and
a majority of Americans believe...

So, again, please highlight where in that poll it says that most Americans agree with you and Fred that "gun loving" is a mental disease.

[pablo_marmol]

166. This is really the best you can do?!

Infantile attempts to slur gun owners generally by posting pictures like the one above?

Flailin' and failin' you are.

[mikeysnot]

168. "I know you are but what am I"

way of argument must be a big hit in the local grade school playground.

[pablo_marmol]

174. Nice projection.

Transparent attempt to hide your childishness by leveling false accusation.

Keep flailing!

[mikeysnot]

186. Yeah, right...

good luck with this dude... I think your momma is calling you. Now run along.

[pablo_marmol]

189. Good to see you keeping up with the conversation snot!

[mikeysnot]

192. Yeah right!

Right back at ya.

[DonP]

173. Some posters are just proud of their selfies and family albums.

One of our banned posters consistently posts photos from his family outings too.

Mr. Snot can post his personal pix if he wants to.

I'm sure his pointless rantings are changing people's minds and driving new legislation to ban and control guns ... any minute now.

[Feral Child]

154. LOL'd

Your photo. That'll leave a mark!

[pablo_marmol]

175. No it won't.

Gun rights supporting Dems are used to this infantile broad-brush behavior.

Rolls off us like water off a duck's back.

[friendly_iconoclast]

178. The gibes of the ignorant and ineffectual carry little sting...

[Feral Child]

179. OK

[upaloopa]

30. You know that providing a link is a gunner game

Lot's of us stopped playing gunner debate games a while ago.

[IronGate]

35. Providing proof of a clain is now a gunners game?

Since when?

[upaloopa]

73. An innocent woman is killed by a gunner and we

still play debate games because holding on to your guns is all that masters. Disgusting!

[IronGate]

75. You failed to answer the question.

Maybe you didn't understand it?
Since when is proving a claim a gunners game?

[mikeysnot]

36. yes, he took the bait...

and lost. Now if he would only acknowledge that...

[IronGate]

45. LOL.

Y'all are funny, claiming something that, in reality, didn't happen, but if it floats your boat and makes you feel better about yourselves, have at it.

[mikeysnot]

46. So you got nothing.

Have a nice day... next!

[IronGate]

50. IOW, you can't prove what you and Fred claim.

So, you have a nice day also......Next up?

[mikeysnot]

52. WOW, reality catch it! I'll send it again.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

This time open your eyes when you look at it...

[IronGate]

53. Then post and highlight the section where it says that most Americans

believe that "gun loving" is a mental disease.
That's what you and Fred are claiming, so, show it.

[mikeysnot]

79. strawman.

I did not make the claim, just agreed with it.

My opinion, if I could link to my brain I would for you.

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/Submit
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More
the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.
"the changing climate of opinion"
an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.
"I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved"

The only claim of fact I made was that a majority of people want gun control, which my link showed.

[IronGate]

81. The only claim of fact I made was that a majority of people want gun control, which my link showed.

I never said otherwise, but you posted a poll claiming that it showed that most Americans agreed with you and Fred that "gun loving" is a mental disease, right?
So it should be pretty easy to highlight that section of the poll, right?

[mikeysnot]

97. strawan his point into mine.

Now...

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm


You take your little mouse and scroll over and use a left mouse click on the link...

[Straw Man]

112. Nothing in that poll ...

... says that the majority of American believe "gun loving" is a "mental disease."

Nothing.

[mikeysnot]

120. That wasn't my argument.

not even close, you changed the subject to Fred's statement... why did you do that?

Because I proved my point.

And you could not refute it.

done.

[Straw Man]

121. Actually, yes, it was.

See my above post for citation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post91

You may wish to pretend that you had another point, but you only took that tack after being called on your original position. You agreed with Fred and then tried (and are still trying) to backpedal.

♩ ♫ Tea for two, and two for tea ... ♪ ♩ ♫

[mikeysnot]

122. My original point was made and backed up, you railroaded the

original point to Fred's since you failed to prove me incorrect.

I clarified my opinion of what Fred stated, but removed majority, since there is no way to prove right or wrong since no poll exists. And you know that. I said it was my opinion.

You post do prove one thing to me... that gun nuts fear any sensible gun control measures since they know deep down they probably won't be able to own guns anymore...

That's why they attack out of state gun control measures, even though they don't have an impact on them. if they work they might spread.

NRA, the arms industries make sure to attack them every chance.

[Straw Man]

123. Railroaded?

My original point was made and backed up, you railroaded the

original point to Fred's since you failed to prove me incorrect.

Bullshit. I "railroaded" nothing. Your "original point" was unequivocal agreement with Fred.

Fred Sanders:

Gun loving is a terrible addiction, a preventable public health crisis and curable mental disease.

You:

word.

IronGate:

Yeeaaahhh, ok, whatever you say.

You:

yes, what he says and

a majority of Americans believe...

When the falsity of his position was pointed out, you backtracked and took another tack. Now you're trying to pretend you never said what you said in the first place.

Intellectually dishonest, but not surprising.

[mikeysnot]

125. Sorry don't see majority in here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=151472

[Straw Man]

128. That's because it's in HERE ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=151485

YOUR post. Remember?

I misspoke by referring to the "falsity of his position." Fred stated an opinion. The falsity was yours alone in claiming that the majority of Americans agree with Fred.

[mikeysnot]

129. How do you know, show me a poll.

[blueridge3210]

130. You made the claim.

Cite the evidence supporting your position.

[friendly_iconoclast]

132. "Culture warriors tend to take a casual approach to factual accuracy"

I've been saying this for years, and culture warriors regularly prove it to be true...

[blueridge3210]

133. True.

I'm always amused by the classic comeback to a challenge to support an argument: "I'm not gonna do your research for you". Basically the argument is conceded at that point.

[friendly_iconoclast]

134. Those that won't support their own assertions are bullshitting us

[mikeysnot]

136. There is not poll to prove it

It would be interesting one to have...

I don't have to cite any evidence, gun nuts prove it almost on a daily basis... but I know, not EVERYDAY a gun nut goes on a murderous rampage or shoots their dick off or gives an uzi to their 9 year old that ends up shooting the instructor dead...

Those people are sane.

[blueridge3210]

137. Then you have nothing. (nt)

[mikeysnot]

140. For once you are correct....

I got nothing but facts....

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

[IronGate]

141. Still not able to show where in that poll it shows

that most American's think "gun loving" is a mental disease?

[Straw Man]

131. Here we go around the mulberry bush.

Last edited Tue Sep 2, 2014, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

How do you know, show me a poll.

It's up to you to prove your assertion that over half the American population thinks that gun ownership is a mental illness. The assertion is ludicrous on its face, but if you have a poll that supports it, I'd like to see that. The poll you posted had nothing to do with the "mental illness" claim.

[mikeysnot]

135. No it doesn't you are correct.

but it does show that a majority of people want more gun control and that you agree with republicans on a democratic forum.

[Straw Man]

138. And you are incorrect.

No it doesn't you are correct.

but it does show that a majority of people want more gun control and that you agree with republicans on a democratic forum.

That was not your original contention, which you have failed to support and have not retracted.

Please show me where I have "agreed with republicans." The logic that construes anyone showing the slightest opposition to a given gun-control statement as "agree(ing) with republicans" is reductive and cartoonish.

[mikeysnot]

139. You are a professional...

at being wrong and being a republican...

"In general, do you think laws covering the sale of guns should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"

More strict...
Republicans = 33%
Democrats = 77%

Sorry...

[Straw Man]

142. Um -- your math is as flawed as your worldview.

You are a professional...

at being wrong and being a republican...

"In general, do you think laws covering the sale of guns should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"

More strict...
Republicans = 33%
Democrats = 77%

How do you account for the 23% of Democrats who do NOT think gun laws should be made more strict? Just call them Republicans?

[mikeysnot]

149. Math is hard for you isn't it...

77% > 23%..... or 3/4 to 1/4th.... just saying.

[Straw Man]

150. Not at all.

77% > 23%..... or 3/4 to 1/4th.... just saying.

Precisely. One quarter of Democrats do not want stricter gun laws. Yet you are claiming that people who don't want stricter gun laws must be Republicans. How do you reconcile that?

[mikeysnot]

160. So you agree with a majority of Republicans?

on democratic message board. In the minority... A couple more gun nut rampages will keep pushing that 77% number up.

Not a matter of "if" but when....

[Straw Man]

164. Do you agree with the majority of Republicans ...

... that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening?

Keep beating that dead horse, man. Maybe one of these days it will get up and run.

[mikeysnot]

169. I think you forgot to take something this morning.

didn't you....

[Straw Man]

172. What?

I think you forgot to take something this morning.

didn't you....

Your sniveling personal attack says far more about you than it does about me. Is this all you have left?

[mikeysnot]

187. Just giving you a taste of your own medicine

obviously you can try and dish it out but cannot take it.

Once again you have nothing.

[Straw Man]

188. I addressed the topic in every post.

Your crude insults did not.

This is not a middle-school playground.

[friendly_iconoclast]

190. "This is not a middle-school playground." True, but it would seem that...

...some are posting from one.

[mikeysnot]

191. Insults?

You keep saying that but don't have any insults... telling it like it is is NOT an insult.

[Straw Man]

193. So ...

You keep saying that but don't have any insults... telling it like it is is NOT an insult.

I think you forgot to take something this morning.

didn't you....

--http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172151467#post169

... "I think you forgot to take something this morning" is not an insult? Then what is it?

"Telling it like it is"? Like WHAT is? Do you happen to know something about my morning habits? What is it that you know, and how do you know it?

[mikeysnot]

194. That wasn't an insult?

I was just looking out for your best interests....

[Straw Man]

195. More insubstantial dreck.

That wasn't an insult?

I was just looking out for your best interests....

You're just getting in deeper. If you're not going to address topics, you might as well save your bandwidth.

[mikeysnot]

196. I kinda feel sorry for you...

your desperation is overwhelming....

[Straw Man]

197. Grow up.

I kinda feel sorry for you...

your desperation is overwhelming....

This isn't a forum for exchanging personal insults. If you can't address topics, you have no business posting here.

[mikeysnot]

198. Thin skinned you are...

Wouldn't "grow up" fall under and attempt at an insult?

[Straw Man]

199. Not at all.

Thin skinned you are...

Actually, I'm not the least bit phased by whatever crap you wish to sling at me. I merely point it out because of how it reflects on you and your credibility.

Wouldn't "grow up" fall under and attempt at an insult?

Actually, no. I would call it friendly advice. You may want to heed it if you ever wish to be taken seriously.

[mikeysnot]

200. reality catch it....

you punted.... Again....

[Straw Man]

201. I have no idea what you are talking about.

This subthread is devoid of point or meaning.

you punted.... Again....

Was there something in there that required a detailed response? I didn't see anything.

Have a nice day.

[mikeysnot]

202. Full of yourself you are....

Me grow up, riiiighhhht.

Cause you are so mature.

[sarisataka]

203. .

[friendly_iconoclast]

143. That makes three unsupported claims you've made on this thread

Are you going to try for more?

[mikeysnot]

162. You fail...

again. Nice attempt at projection. You must be a masochist... Keep coming back for more...

[mikeysnot]

148. Show me how you don't agree with republicans

if you are against any gun control, I and I did prove my point so many times it is ridiculous.

Your post show that time and time again.

[Straw Man]

151. Please parse the gibberish.

I am one of the 23% of Democrats who does not think gun control laws should be stricter. This does not make me a Republican, despite your earlier accusations. I see that you're now trying to move the goalposts to "agree(ing) with (R)epublicans." I submit to you that the vast majority of Republicans believe that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. Agree or disagree?

[mikeysnot]

161. Projection AGAIN...

Typical... accuse the me of what you are in fact engaging in... sad really.

[Straw Man]

163. Would you care to address the substance of my post?

About Democrats who oppose additional gun control? You know -- the fact that they do exist?

No? I thought not.

Sad really.

[friendly_iconoclast]

165. Certain gun control advocates have degenerated into badge-engineered versions...

...of Teabaggers: paranoia, baseless personal attacks, overblown claims of danger, and wildly exaggerated claims of popularity.

It is indeed sad...

[DonP]

167. Now that is a new and worthwhile insight

Maybe it's the repetitive use of the same disproven memes again and again for the past decade with nothing to show for it?

Or maybe it's the movement of the goal posts from; "Ban all scary looking semi autos" to "Let's get this post hidden and declare victory"?

When Bloomberg's bought and paid for meat puppets and millions of $ still can't get a grocery store to ban open carry, there's a problem with the "movement".

[mikeysnot]

204. And certain gunz everywhere proponents

are oblivious to reality....

[friendly_iconoclast]

205. When you find a "gunz everywhere proponent", be sure and let us know, mmkay?

[mikeysnot]

206. Try the Kroger....

[mikeysnot]

170. your part of a shrinking minority

that is the good part... what is sad that you are still replying...

[Straw Man]

171. Not the case at all. Look around you.

your part of a shrinking minority

that is the good part... what is sad that you are still replying...

More and more Democrats are realizing that gun control has little to do with public safety and much to do with loss of rights.

You think it's "sad" that I'm still replying, yet you are doing the same thing. What does that say about you?

[friendly_iconoclast]

152. Ah, the old "If you're not with us, you're with the bad guys" act

It stank when Bush/Cheney did it, and it stinks even worse
when alleged 'progressives' do it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

124. And if they don't work...

...they spread regardless. The AWB for example, did nothing, cost a lot and is still being pushed, passed and wasting resources and attention today.

While relevance to common sense is possible, relevance to fascism is more likely if the words are being promoted Bloomberg.

True grassroots ideas go nowhere if most of the 99% don't examine information with diligence.

[Straw Man]

91. Who, me?

Fred Sanders said this:

Gun loving is a terrible addiction, a preventable public health crisis and curable mental disease.

You said this:

yes, what he says and

a majority of Americans believe...

And now you say this:

The only claim of fact I made was that a majority of people want gun control, which my link showed.

You would appear to be at odds with yourself.

[beevul]

182. I guess that means the anti-gunners game is assertions without one.

Not that that is a surprise.

[Starboard Tack]

144. Apparently, a majority of Americans wanted to re-elect Dubya

Would proving a majority either way sway your opinion? Is that what it's about, going with the flow?

[IronGate]

145. No.

Fred said that most American's think that "gun loving" is a mental disease and Mike agreed with him, I asked for a link proving their assertions, which so far, is sadly lacking.

[Starboard Tack]

146. I saw that.

I guess it could be argued that "gun loving" is a mental disease, depending on what one means by "loving". Of course, that could be applied to anything.
However, my point was that a majority thinking one way or the other has little to do with the merit of one's argument. Sometimes I agree with the majority and sometimes not. My opinions are not determined by consensus, nor by any other criteria beyond my own assessment, which I try to keep as independent as possible.

[Fred Sanders]

19. Irongate is always first out of the gate to claim the justice system will take care of it, not to

worry, at least the gun is safe and not involved much.....making a spectacle of common sense and compassion in one fell swoop.

It is all they got.

[mikeysnot]

23. Why do I have a feeling

that this idiot coward will get to keep his gun and no charges will be filed by LEO, and the family will have to file a wrongful death civil suit.

I hope I am wrong.

[IronGate]

25. You are wrong.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/18/guns-everywhere-georgia-man-shoots-self-in-hand-outside-bar-stray-bullet-kills-woman/

A statement from police on Sunday said that Lampien would be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Maybe if you had read the article, you would've known this.

[mikeysnot]

31. Charged, cool.

Found guilty, that's another story.

Trayvon Martins killer was "charged" too.

If reality played into you world, you would have not responded that way.

[clffrdjk]

39. Still riding the Trayvon train eh.

That tells me all I need to know about how you view reality.

[mikeysnot]

44. wow.

I must have missed the part where Trayvon was alive and Zimmerman was in jail.

[clffrdjk]

64. I know that is what you want but even you are not deluded enough to think that.

Instead you cling to the idea that Trayvon was the victim.

[mikeysnot]

66. Exhibit B

[clffrdjk]

71. Oh sorry, do you have evidence that the prosecutors couldn't find?

That proves that Trayvon was not on top of Zim bashing his head into the concrete?

[mikeysnot]

87. Agree

the prosecution team completely blew this case.

But if you really believe Z was the victim, then I really do not care what you believe anymore.

[bravenak]

177. Found another Zimmerman Supporter!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^°

[clffrdjk]

180. Na just someone who believes in the rule of law

Not public opinion.
Do you have any evidence proving him guilty?

[bravenak]

181. Nope.

The man is out of his mind. He decided recently to HIRE HIMSELF as a night watch man without the owners permission of a shop. Took it upon himself again. Just like last time. And he beat his wife up. And her father. And his girlfriend. And keeps getting pulled over with a gun in his car. And.......

[clffrdjk]

183. All reasons why you don't see me supporting the man.

But not single thing to counter the courts' ruling which I do support.

[bravenak]

184. Good for you.

I hop nobody kills your unarmed loved one. Really, I do.

[clffrdjk]

185. Back to pretending he wasn't the attacker eh.

Let me know when you are done playing make believe.

[Fred Sanders]

40. The line about "the guy is being charged so go back to sleep, all is well", is always hilarious.

[IronGate]

47. Except that's not what I said, is it. nt.

[IronGate]

41. Oh, I'm well grounded in reality.

My career forces me to be a realist.

[mikeysnot]

49. Funniest post of the day!

[IronGate]

51. Naw, the funniest posts are yours and Freds claiming that "gun loving" is a mental disease.

[mikeysnot]

61. oh emoticons

how childish...

[IronGate]

62. Still can't prove what you and Fred are claiming? nt.

[mikeysnot]

99. Still waiting for you to prove my point is wrong.

The fact that you deflect so pathetically away from my original point.

So just for clarification, there is NO POLL to point to, so your point is moot.

BUT since you are still confused and if I was called and polled and the question was framed something like this...

Do you consider people who feel the need to parade around with military style weapons in malls and grocery stores, want to pack heat where ever they go, feel they need to arm themselves with massive amounts of guns, stockpile and hoard ammunition are suffering from "mental illness".

I would say yes...

Now, if you can and you have demonstrated time and time again that YOU CANNOT prove me wrong and ignore and have to change the subject to Fred's opinion....

And BTW here is the latest poll in Chicago regarding CC...

On the question of whether the state's concealed carry law should be amended to ban the possession of concealed firearms in any place that has a liquor license, nearly three-quarters of voters said yes, with 96 percent of precincts reporting.

The City Council already has adopted an ordinance to revoke liquor licenses from establishments that do not ban firearms. State law bans weapons only in bars or restaurants that make more than half their money from selling alcohol.

About 76 percent of voters said yes to a referendum asking whether the state should pass a measure to ban gun magazines with more than 15 rounds, again with 96 percent of precincts in. The proposal is backed by Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Gov. Pat Quinn.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-referendums-20140318-story.html

[IronGate]

100. I never disputed the results of the poll,

all I was saying is for you to point out where it says that most Americans agree with you and Fred that "gun loving" is a mental disease, which, so far, you've failed to do so.

[mikeysnot]

103. Well right back at ya.

I never disputed the results of the poll,

Of course not, that is why you punted and changed the subject to strawmanville...

You have not proved that a majority of Americans don't agree that gun loving is a mental illness.

But your post suggest there is a connection.

So IF there was this poll, I would be willing to bet that I would win there also.

[IronGate]

104. Then start a poll and prove that you and Fred are right. nt.

[mikeysnot]

106. why don't you

that was your point not mine.


spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and
spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

108. I think I could go to a mall and ask a hundred people...

...and find that at least half can't adequately define "mental illness".

While you're thinking on that, maybe you can define "gun loving".
Would you have any statistics on how many people (or what percentage) are "gun lovers"?

[samsingh]

5. what about the innocent woman who was killed by the gun?

[IronGate]

8. What about her?

It's a tragic accident, one which the man will pay for.

[samsingh]

34. she's dead because someone is allowed to carry around a destructive weapon with not enough controls

Last edited Mon Aug 18, 2014, 12:06 PM - Edit history (1)

[enough]

48. Oh, that's OK then. (nt)

[IronGate]

55. Except that's not what I said, is it. nt.

[Starboard Tack]

117. How about charging him with voluntary stupidity too?

Along with the idiot legislators who made it legal for him to be standing there with a loaded fucking gun.

Of course he will be charged, as every idiot who does shit like this should be charged, but the victims are still dead. Heckuva price to pay for making it legal to carry.

[RandySF]

126. And all the charges in the world do not bring her back or change the fact

that if he wasn't carrying the gun, she would be alive.

[IronGate]

127. True, but at least her family will get some sort of closure. nt.

[Feral Child]

153. Your point?

"It's OK he killed somebody, the State will get revenge"?

Tell that to the dead woman's family.

[IronGate]

155. My point?

Thought it was pretty obvious.
The point is that he will charged.

"It's OK he killed somebody, the State will get revenge"?

Point out where I said that.

[Feral Child]

156. Paraphrasing

the sentiment behind your purposefully laconic apologia.

Why else point out the obvious? Please don't play coy, IG. It's weak and fools no-one.

[IronGate]

157. LOL'd.

Your paraphrasing sucks, that's not what I meant at all.

[Feral Child]

158. OK

Have a nice day. OK?

[IronGate]

159. You have a great day also.

[mikeysnot]

3. Guns save lives!

not.

[samsingh]

6. a lot of innocent blood is shed to appease the worship of gun lovers

and those making money off their sale.

[acalix]

109. Would you say the same about alcohol?

And everybody who drinks for pleasure or to get drunk?

Some 90,000 deaths associated with it each year. Do you rationalize off the deaths because it "isn't designed to kill?"

[samsingh]

110. there are age restrictions on alcohol, penalties for driving while intoxicated

you can't put half empty bottles of booze on your desk at work.

so yes, let's have similar restrictions on guns.

great point.

[Straw Man]

111. Same with guns.

there are age restrictions on alcohol, penalties for driving while intoxicated

you can't put half empty bottles of booze on your desk at work.

so yes, let's have similar restrictions on guns.

Federal law prohibits the purchase of firearms by anyone under the age of 18. Most states have laws against the carry of firearms while intoxicated.

You can most certainly have a half-empty bottle of booze on your desk if your employer allows it. Open display of firearms at work in open-carry states is also at the discretion of the employer. In other states, it would be illegal.

[samsingh]

115. purchase or use of guns - i see kids handling guns a lot

but employers have the right to ban the alcohol. why not guns?

[Jenoch]

116. Since when do employers don't have the right to ban guns?

[Straw Man]

118. What on earth are you talking about?

purchase or use of guns - i see kids handling guns a lot

What age? Where? No one under 12 can handle a gun in New York State. State laws vary on this, obviously.

but employers have the right to ban the alcohol. why not guns?

Employers can and do ban guns. It's rare for employers to allow carry of firearms by employees. Very rare.

Where do you get these notions?

[acalix]

113. Alcohol is not nearly as regulated as guns.

You do not need a background check to buy a bottle of liquor.

If implementing licensing and background checks was proven to reduce the obscene amount of death associated with alcohol, would you be a proponent? People should prove that they will not abuse their drinks before consuming a bottle of Jack Daniels. Habitual drunkards and people who drink and drive should lose their license to consume alcohol for all eternity. Sound good?

What about minimum pricing and taxes on alcohol like what Canada does? Such measures are proven to reduce the deaths associated with this drug.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21358995


At least guns are used for hunting which directly benefits wildlife by means of culling overpopulated species and conservation. Alcohol serves no purpose other than to get drunk and have fun. That's it.

[IronGate]

9. Yes, they do.

Saved my butt several times.

[mikeysnot]

10. Were you an extra in

a movie?

[IronGate]

11. Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm

Operation Iraqi Freedom.

[mikeysnot]

13. OK, you were in a WAR!

not the same as sitting across the street in GA.

[Fred Sanders]

20. Some people miss war and the acceptance of gun worship...in war.

[IronGate]

26. And some people have no fucking clue of what they're talking about.

Missing war?

[mikeysnot]

32. And you are Exhibit A!

[IronGate]

63. Still can't prove that most Americans think that "gun loving" is a mental disease? nt.

[mikeysnot]

69. Still can't prove it isn't.

[Eleanors38]

114. Compensation? Aww, that gun ain't nothin.'

[NYC_SKP]

12. Outside a bar, you say? Ban All Bars!!!

.

Why does the BATF not spend any time trying to save lives that are ruined by alcohol? I mean it's the A in BATF.

Most progressive gun enthusiasts strongly support gun handling and safety training, safe storage, background checks, and stiff penalties to discourage stupidity and carelessness.

This Georgia case is sad for all involved, but could have been avoided 17 different ways.

[mikeysnot]

14. 17 different ways?

I have one sure way,

DON'T LET IDIOTS WALK AROUND WITH GUNS IN PUBLIC!

[Fred Sanders]

21. Deflection is getting desperate in the gun fetish world. All the evidence in the world can not

change a mental illness that is gun worship.

[woodsprite]

29. When we were vacationing in OBX, NC, I was

glad to see restaurants and stores have signs saying
"No firearms allowed, except for law enforcement personnel."

[doxydad]

37. Need more BACKBONE like this!

[krispos42]

92. So you were glad to see pablum?

Was there any enforcement mechanism at all?




No, of course not. Every person, no person, or some persons were carrying in those stores with those signs, and neither you, nor the owners, nor the staff, had any clue as to who, if anybody, was carrying, legally or illegally, a handgun.



I would imagine that sign would be as effective as one saying "No Child Molesters Allowed". Would you feel safer in an establishment with such a sign displayed? How about "No Rapists Allowed"? "No Robbers Allowed?"

[sarisataka]

86. Reading over the replies to this

why can I not get this image out of my head

[pablo_marmol]

93. Your pandemic of propaganda won't convince persons with integrity

that there is an "epidemic" of gun violence.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

[doxydad]

94. One murder..

...is too many. This cutesy 'pandemic of propaganda' that you LOVE to use, is an NRA trigger term of endearment. Shows who you throw in with the NRA, a gun manufacturers lobbyist group, hell bent on selling tons of guns and ammo to the fearful and delirious. There is an epidemic.....of stupidity with certain gun 'owners'.

Nice way of me saying 'lunatic fringe murderers'.

[pablo_marmol]

147. Ah.....the "if it prevents just one murder" belch.

Too bad for your specious "arguments" that numerous surveys have demonstrated that defensive gun use is at least as common as offensive.

So your "moral" position goes up in smoke.

Edited to add: The NRA couldn't "convince" anyone that the crime rate has been dropping steadily since 1993 if it wasn't a fact. But keep your tired talking points rolling.

[Dont call me Shirley]

176. Bars, Drunks, Guns: Not a good idea