NRA slam on gun-control advocate Shannon Watts backfires

[SecularMotion]

It's hard to imagine what the National Rifle Association thought they'd gain by turning Moms Demand Action founder Shannon Watts into a paper doll with a feather duster.

"They seem to think real moms and real women just cook, clean and use rotary telephones," Watts, who lives in Indianapolis, told me Monday evening. "I can only imagine it's because real women aren't making their marketing materials."

The September issue of NRA's magazine, America's 1st Freedom, contains an article headlined "Not Watts She Seems," which calls Watts' self-described stay-at-home mom badge into question, noting that she has a long and impressive history of public relations and activist work.

The article alone may not have raised many eyebrows. NRA leadership is no fan of Watts, who founded Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America shortly after the December 2012 shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School to push for stronger gun control laws, including mandatory background checks for all gun purchases. And even the U.S. Census Bureau has a hard time deciding what counts as a stay-at-home parent. (Particularly when it comes to dads.)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-shannon-watts-nra-balancing-20140826-column.html

[blueridge3210]

1. Google Dump.

Comments?

[enough]

4. This is the second time in an hour you have made this same reply to an OP.

There is no requirement or expectation that an OP has to have comments by the poster. I found the information in the OP interesting. The link is there if I want to delve farther. The OP has fulfilled its function. It speaks for itself.

[Duckhunter935]

6. So Blue can't voice his opinoin

This poster has in excess of 500 posts and never comments or discusses the posts he makes. He is up to around ten today and he is a group host that strictly enforces the SOP of that group and has blocked anyone he does not like.

Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

I read that as a poster really should participate and discuss at least occasionally.

[IronGate]

2. That's your idea of a backfire?

Ok, if that's what justifies as a backfire in your mind, go with it.

In the meantime, do you have any comment on any of the google dumps you've done today?

Bueller, Bueller?

[etherealtruth]

3. Your post gives the impression that you support the NRA ....

... certainly that can't be true?

[IronGate]

5. I don't care what impression you take away from my post.

Any comment on the thread?

[etherealtruth]

7. Well, you are very rude ... why?

A right wing group portrays women in a very negative way and a DU poster appears (I am still hoping you simply typed without thinking) appears to support the right wing group.

Thanks to Moms against guns Target does not allow guns and my local Kroger has placarding stating that at the request of their customers Kroger requests guns not be brought into the store.

I am very grateful these steps have been taken. I hope Kroger Corporation as a whole will follow suit and take the lead of other retailers and make this a Corporate policy.

my comment on the NRA, unsurprisingly their actions and words are reprehensible.

[Duckhunter935]

8. Target allows guns in the stores

Target spokesman Molly Snyder told the Wire that they are “requesting that people do not carry any firearms in our stores, including concealed carry. We will continue to follow local laws, however, concealed weapons are included in our position.” However, Target has no plans to actually enforce its request. The Wire asked Snyder if Target will ask a gun-toting customer to leave and she said: “Because this is a request and not a prohibition, we do not plan to communicate with our customers at this time.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/03/target-announces-but-wont-enforce-gun-ban/

Shannon was a very high paid PR executive and it is too bad she is ashamed of that fact to publicize it more. I think she should be proud of her accomplishments at Monsanto and her large paycheck from a billionaire.

[etherealtruth]

12. Mercifully following MY communtiy standards I don't have to deal with these idiots

I laud Shannons work.

I have a couple degrees in Environmental science/chemistry ... I can be a mom against environmental contamination, despite the fact that I am also and educated professional.

the article addresses a VERY sexist and misogynistic attack based on a perverse and bigoted stereotype of women by a right wing group .... if an anti gun group did this I would be disgusted as well .... I am shocked at the support offered to a right wing group engaged in a very bigoted act

[Duckhunter935]

20. I see open carry of handguns

occasionally. Never bothers me. Not my first choice if I were to carry. When it is 105, it gets kind of hard to conceal without also drawing attention to yourself.

[etherealtruth]

27. I saw it in Virginia ... never here

It is simply not a culturally acceptable thing to do

[IronGate]

9. Your wrong about Target and Kroger.

They still allow firearms, they just request that customers don't open carry them, which I happen to agree with, concealed carry is much smarter and less controversial.

As far as MDA, they're nothing more that an atro turf creation of M. Bloomberg.

Again, what you took away from my post is your interpretation and not necessarily accurate.

[etherealtruth]

14. Really .... my local grocery (Kroger allows it, huh? They will be surprised)

Please comment ion the topic of the OP (you asked me to and I did) ... what is your reaction the right wing groups actions?

[IronGate]

15. Do they have a No Firearms Allowed sign?

Because the Krogers where I live don't outright ban them, they just "request" that patrons don't bring them and they won't ask any patron to leave that's open carrying.

[etherealtruth]

18. I live in an area where it is socially unacceptable to do this

I have no doubt that the police would be called and would respond (a retailer can ask anyone to leave at anytime for disrupting) ... the concerns in my community have been that idiots from outside would attempt to bring their disruptive behavior. It is not well tolerated here (by the citizenry or the police)

I don't recall the exact wording of the placarding

[Duckhunter935]

26. Police responded after this 911 call

Emergency dispatchers received a 911 call about someone brandishing a "rifle-like weapon" at customers in the store, he said.

Relatives of the man police shot and killed in an Ohio Walmart Tuesday said he was only carrying a "toy gun" — but it wasn't exactly a Super Soaker.

John Crawford, 22, was carrying an MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced Thursday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/police-kill-man-air-rifle-walmart-ohio-article-1.1895479

[etherealtruth]

29. Exemplifying why this (open carrying) is such a stupid thing to do

[beevul]

28. What area do you refer to? N/T

[etherealtruth]

30. Northern suburbs of Detroit

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. "I have no doubt that the police would be called and would respond"...

...by telling the callers that open carry is legal, unless and until the
owner of a premises asks the open carrier to leave:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf?20140830170104

Open carry of firearms

In Michigan, it is legal for a person to carry a
firearm in public as long as the person is
carrying the firearm with lawful intent and the
firearm is not concealed. You will not find a law
that states it is legal to openly carry a firearm. It
is legal because there is no Michigan law that
prohibits it; however, Michigan law limits the
premises on which a person may carry a
firearm.

MCL 750.234d

provides that it is a 90 day
misdemeanor to possess a firearm on the
premises of any of the following:
 A depository financial institution (e.g., bank or
credit union)
 A church or other place of religious worship
A court
A theater
 A sports arena
 A day care center
 A hospital
 An establishment licensed under the Liquor
Control Code
The above section does not apply to any of the
following:
 The owner or a person hired as security (if the
firearm is possessed for the purpose of providing
security)
 A peace officer
 A person with a valid concealed pistol license
(CPL) issued by any state
 A person who possesses on one of the above
listed premises with the permission of the owner
or owner’s agent
Officers must be aware of the above exemption
for valid CPL holders as many of the citizens
who openly carry firearms possess valid CPLs.
An individual with a valid CPL may carry a nonconcealed firearm in the above listed premises.

A CPL holder is not required by law to carry a
pistol concealed. A CPL holder may carry a
pistol concealed or non-concealed.
A private property owner has the right to prohibit
individuals from carrying firearms on his or her
property, whether concealed or otherwise, and
regardless of whether the person is a CPL
holder. If a person remains on the property after
being told to leave by the owner, the person may
be charged with trespassing (MCL 750.552).


MCL 750.226
states it is a felony for a person to
carry a dangerous weapon, including a firearm,
with the intent to use the weapon unlawfully
against another person.

Brandishing firearms
MCL 750.234e
provides that it is a 90-day
misdemeanor for a person to knowingly brandish
a firearm in public. Brandishing is not defined in
Michigan law and there are no reported
Michigan cases that define the term. Attorney
General Opinion No. 7101 provides guidance
and states, “A person when carrying a handgun
in a holster in plain view is not waving or
displaying the firearm in a threatening manner.
Thus, such conduct does not constitute
brandishing a firearm….”

While I agree that open carry is stupid 95% of the time, it is
legal in Michigan-and your local cops are setting themselves up for a
lawsuit if they decide to harrass someone carrying legally

[etherealtruth]

44. Any owner of private property may ask a person to leave

I stated that in my response ... the point being that folk doing this type of thing are not tolerated ...by businesses or patrons.

Again , the fear being that idiots from outside the community ... the standards are pretty clear.

I would encourage anyone doubting my description to come and engage is this behavior ... we can see who is correct.

PM me I will give you business names and addresses. Attempt to exercise your desires....strut through a Target or a Kroger in this area ... our police are also idiots ... you could even get arrested (of course it would be for something else ...but you would run the risk).

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. Why would I want to do something that I already agreed was stupid?

Then again, deliberately depriving someone of rights under color of law is
also stupid, potentially costly to taxpayers, and not really very progressive ...

[etherealtruth]

50. Private property rights deprive no one their rights

...I am not happy that I have a police force that would lie ... but they would

[friendly_iconoclast]

53. If open carriers won't leave after being asked, they *should* be busted.

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Not "women", one woman-the former head of PR for Monsanto, a detail elided...

...in the Tribune article.

Thanks to Moms against guns Target does not allow guns...

That turns out not to be the case:

(this was posted by one of you lot, actually)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172148483

SPINELESS: Target Didn’t Really Ban Guns In Their Stores, Gun Nuts Continue Carrying Assault Rifles

http://aattp.org/spineless-target-didnt-really-ban-guns-in-their-stores-gun-nuts-continue-carrying-assault-rifles-inside/

...Target interim CEO John Mulligan explained via a blog post, “ Our approach has always been to follow local laws, and of course, we will continue to do so. But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law.”

“This isn’t a policy change, this is a position,” said Molly Snyder, a member of Target’s public relations team, in a phone interview with The Wire. “We are requesting that people do not carry any firearms in our stores, including concealed carry. We will continue to follow local laws, however, concealed weapons are included in our position.”

“Because this is a request and not a prohibition, we do not plan to communicate with our customers at this time,” she told The Wire...

...A Target spokesperson followed up this statement with a clarification. Molly Snyder said the retailer will not post signs at its stores asking people not to bring guns inside. “It is not a ban,” she said. “There is no prohibition.”

(M)y local Kroger has placarding stating that at the request of their customers Kroger requests guns not be brought into the store.

I am very grateful these steps have been taken. I hope Kroger Corporation as a whole will follow suit and take the lead of other retailers and make this a Corporate policy.

Looks like Kroger is also playing people like you:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/08/29/kroger-dodging-anti-gun-crossfire/14799891/

...Kroger – the world's third-largest retailer, with more than $100 billion in annual sales – is the group's biggest target yet. Company officials say Kroger just wants to sell groceries, not enter political debates.

"Our long-standing policy on this issue is to follow state and local laws and to ask customers to be respectful of others while shopping," Kroger said in a statement. "We know that our customers are passionate on both sides of this issue, and we trust them to be responsible in our stores."...

...Kroger said it's concerned for the safety of shoppers and employees, but also doesn't want to burden its workers with enforcing a ban that would "put our associates in a position of having to confront a customer who is legally carrying a gun."

If she can get people to believe that simply posting a sign on a store wall with no enforcement
behind it is actually making them safer, I'd say that Watts' salary is well earned...

[etherealtruth]

21. Sorry a weird software glitch occurred and I am not retyping

[NYC_SKP]

41. Maybe to you. I didn't get that impression whatsoever.

Watts is deceptive in her self-description, the NRA in typical fashion used a rude stereotype in calling Watts out on her lies.

So an article calls them out for the graphic, and that's supposed to be a big "backfire"?

I don't think so, I don't think it's a backfire, and thinking so doesn't suggest I support the NRA.

[etherealtruth]

49. Yes, it did give me that impression

I have no doubt it didn't give you that impression.

This is why the "discussion" in the gun groups is rarely productive.

At this point ... no one seems to have an issue with the NRA's tactic (in this case) ... which was clearly offensive (reading the comments by NRA women) to women. I would say criticism/outrage from your members is backfiring.

To some supporting the NRA is not viewed as a negative thing ...to me, it is supporting a right wing group.

I make a foray to the 'gun groups' every few years. sadly, there really never seems to be a desire for any real conversation.

See y'all in GD

[Duckhunter935]

54. It's nice to be civil and disagree

we see things from a different point of view but all have mainly the same ideology.

Glad you came by this crazy place and come back again

[etherealtruth]

55. The good (i think ) part of me ...

...will be contentious "down here" ... but can discuss "whatever" in GD with you and never even think about this subject.

Hoping y'all can do the same ... and generally find "you" (collectively) can and do.

[beevul]

10. Shannon Watts: Liar.

"Our message is that, you know first of all, were not anti-gun, we support the second amendment..."

Moms Demand Action Deeply Disappointed in Federal Judge’s Decision Overturning Chicago’s Citywide Ban on Gun Dealerships

Grassroots Movement Outraged on Behalf of Gun Violence Victims in Chicago

U.S. District Judge Edmond Chang has ruled that Chicago’s ordinance prohibiting licensed gun stores from operating in the city is unconstitutional. The court’s decision reportedly cited the city’s failure to prove that banning licensed gun dealers has a significant impact in reducing gun violence. The ruling would also decriminalize many private transfers of firearms between individuals inside city limits.

Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America is shocked that in a densely populated city struggling to keep children safe from gunfire, the court has dealt a serious blow to public safety by essentially encouraging more citizens to arm themselves. We firmly believe that loosening gun legislation is a step in the wrong direction, and we echo the Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, who ‘strongly disagrees’ with this ruling and said in a statement yesterday, “we need stronger gun safety laws, not increased access to firearms within the city.”

In the context of federal loopholes that already make it too easy for criminals to obtain firearms, cities must be allowed to enact local ordinances to curb gun violence, such as Chicago’s ban on gun dealing. Despite the gun lobby’s efforts to chip away at common-sense regulations, we support a city’s right to regulate businesses that profit from selling guns.

Moms Demand Action will support and work with local officials and law enforcement to appeal this ruling. Despite the forces of the DC-based gun lobby to wield influence in Illinois, we will ultimately persevere alongside community leaders who continue the struggle to reduce gun violence in Chicago.

http://momsdemandaction.org/in-the-news/moms-demand-action-deeply-disappointed-federal-judges-decision-overturning-chicagos-citywide-ban-gun-dealerships/

Any questions?

[Duckhunter935]

11. be very careful with youtube links

Just saying

[beevul]

13. Whys that? What did I miss? N/T

[Duckhunter935]

16. I had a post hidden

due to the fact I fulfilled a members request to view an advertisement. I guess it was to scary for the youtube linked starting screen to be shown and a person alerted and it was hidden 4-3.

The funny thing is later after the hide a poster (I may be wrong but possibly the alerter) said a link would be fine to have posted.
If I am wrong about the ID of the alerter, my apologies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=151959

When asked about the first line in the ad and my remark "all True" I admitted I missed that first part and clarified my remark.

[SecularMotion]

17. Do you have anything to contribute to this group besides your meta-whining?

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. Do you?

[IronGate]

23. Do you?

Other than your predictable google dumps without comment?

[IronGate]

24. Hypocrisy at it's best.

[beevul]

25. Do you?

Physician, treat thy self.

[Duckhunter935]

31. At least I

participate in the group discussions. You sir never seem to even as it is in the group SOP.

So now I should not be able to answer another members question? How very nice.

[SecularMotion]

32. Meta-whining is not discussion

[Duckhunter935]

33. explain please?

[IronGate]

34. Something you would know about,

as you never discuss any of the google dumps you do here.

Do you realize what a hypocrite you sound like?

[beevul]

36. Neither are google dumps, Champ. N/T

[Duckhunter935]

61. Bump

Please answer my question

[Duckhunter935]

62. Please explain

I would really like to know what this is

[beevul]

42. He was answering a question that *I* asked.

It wasn't an out of the blue "meta" whining post.


Would you care to discuss that?

[IronGate]

45. Would you care to discuss that?

Funniest comment yet.

[Duckhunter935]

48. It was a good one I admit

[beevul]

35. Oh yeah. I saw but forgot.

At this point, nobody is going to make me believe that there isn't headhunting going on.

Its quite obvious.

The question is, when will it be recognized, acknowledged by TPTB here, and the system improved to make doing such nefarious things far more difficult.

I've often considered proposing that a bunch of us pro-gun folks get together, coordinate, and demonstrate how the system can be gamed by those with the intention to do so, using only our own posts, and to be alerted on only by us.

[Duckhunter935]

37. I just loaded up my

Jury blacklist, should have done it a long time ago. At least 15 are disqualified. I am curious if it is just a couple doing the alerting. I am just more self censoring my replies. Very sad thing to do but that is life.

[beevul]

40. Wish I could afford a star...broker than the ten commandments...

But yeah, use it to the best extent you can.

I'm sure its just a few doing the alerting, since only a few bother to frequent this forum. Sure there is bound to be the occasional person who sees a thread here from the front page and alerts, but not very often at all.

As always, here, it isn't as much about what you say, but more about how you say it. I wont self censor for anybody or anything. It isn't in my nature. But I'll certainly craft replies in such a way that making illegitimate alerts stick to them is very unlikely.

[friendly_iconoclast]

51. Replies should *always* be well crafted. Leave rants to the crazies

[Duckhunter935]

52. I try very hard to do that

the last couple of weeks I really think I have one or two persons actively trying to get me a time out. Most results have been 4-3

[NYC_SKP]

43. Jury Blacklist does not prevent listed members from alerting on your replies and posts.

Maybe it should.

The list only prevents them from serving on your juries.

[Duckhunter935]

46. That would be a good feature

At least it is a very small help. I am fairly sure it is only a couple that are alerting. A majority of the people on the other side of the RKBA position are fine upstanding members that will have a civil discussion. There are a few that resort to name calling and penis references that I am concerned about.

[Eleanors38]

56. I was the one who made what I thought was a reasonable

request. heaven forbid.

[Duckhunter935]

57. Shit happens

just seems that us who believe in RKBA have to be extra super careful. I surprised me. And now the person I suspect as alerting is twisting himself in knots trying to explain why a link is fine but a link that displays the youtube window is out of bounds on DU.

[Eleanors38]

58. I intend to post these NRA videos, and critique them...

because new trends and demographics are in play, and the NRA seems way-off in their approaches, even if they are looking at favorable political numbers.

[Duckhunter935]

59. I agree with the NRA for gun safety

Do not agree with the leadership and the legislative agenda

[Eleanors38]

60. I agree with you. I think the NRA is looking down

the timeline, and is stumbling about in its appeal to different groups. Some are aimed at a diverse youth, but lack the dog-whistle RW appeals seen in the "flyover" video which caused such bowel spasms with some controller/banners. Their ideology isn't showing as much in the other ads I have seen. The effort is clumsy.