Is the 2nd Amendment the only right that depends on one's financial position?

[Kaleva]

To exercise the right, one needs money and for those of us in the low end of the economic scale, it's out of reach.

A person down the street doesn't have more of a right to a speedy trial or freedom from excessive bail, cruel and unusual punishments then me just because he has more spendable income.

[unblock]

1. as a practical matter, most rights are enhanced by money.

all the rights of the accused, for instance, are significantly enhanced by a team of excellent lawyers. sure, you can get a lawyer pro bono if you have the need, and hey, you might even get treated fairly.

but let's just say the trials and other treatment that the rich accused get are "more fair" than the "fair" trials and treatment that poor accused get.

[Kaleva]

3. But the poor can still get a court appointed lawyer

I have the right to keep and bear arms but that's only in theory as my budget says otherwise.

[NYC_SKP]

2. The First Amendment, the Press part, comes to mind.

Corporatization, even Citizens United, tells us that money buys more "rights".

[Fred Sanders]

4. It is a "freedom" you can well do without, and no gun means less likelihood you will die by one.

Now that is freedom you CAN afford.

[NYC_SKP]

5. appropos of nothing

but since you're going off topic, does an atheist have no need for freedom of religion?

I would argue against your reply by indicating that the lack of rigor and control in data collection for the claims made about likelihood of injury or death in households with guns, uncontrolled for other variables, render these conclusions meaningless.

Also, I'm not about to tell another human how they may or may not protect themselves and family, provided they leave me alone.

Others should follow that model.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Like the 3 year old protected her family by killing her mother....some protection....death by child.

[kioa]

12. An anecdote used to justify an authoritarian viewpoint.

Utterly unconvincing.

Life in the USA isn't scary Fred.
Get out more.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Says terrified gun lover confusing authoritarianism with sensible gun control laws.

[kioa]

15. I'm not terrified.

That's why I'm not the one insisting that innocent Americans have to lose rights & liberties.

Your 'sensible gun control' not only got the party trounced in the midterms, it is also authoritarian.
"au·thor·i·tar·i·an
əˌTHôrəˈterēən/
adjective
1.
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

Neither rights nor the language changes at your whim.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. There are 4300 underaged deaths from alcohol each year.

That doesn't even include domestic violence, DUIs, sexual assaults etc. No one needs a drink. There is no right to drink. There is no beneficent purpose for alcohol

If "unnecessary death = reason ban" then we should reinstate Prohibition.

However, guns are a tool for procuring food, sports and -- yes -- self defense. There are criminals, stalkers, rapists, etc. who have been left to victimize innocent people.

Meanwhile, the militarized police are gunning down unarmed citizens or children holding toys. That would be the same militarized police gun grabbers assure us will disarm the populace with only the noblest of intentions in their militarized hearts and then allow themselves to be put back on their leash.

[Fred Sanders]

21. Death by child, only the deadly gun can kill with the twitch of a child's finger. Such weapons must

be strictly controlled, they are so obviously deadly.

After all, they contain high explosives within them, sometimes a lot of high explosives.

False equivalences are all one has left to defy the obvious. I understand, it fills the emptiness of the argument.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. No one is arguing against safe storage and handling.

When death is the final result it is no false equivalency whether death came by the twitch of a finger or the tilting of a wrist. Dead is dead.

[beevul]

14. Thankfully you don't get to make that decision.

I'll reserve that decision for myself, thanks.

[krispos42]

7. It is if the gun-control groups get their way.

By adding money and time consuming requirement for gun ownership. Multiple visits to the police. Training classes. Photo permits. Gun insurance. Psychological evaluations. Etc.

[ileus]

8. two points to be made here....

1st....There are good options for Self Defense on the lower end of the scale 160 bucks or so can buy you a reliable but crude 9mm pistol made by Hi-Point. There are also several budget options in the SD shotgun market in the 250 buck range.


2nd...This is also why we must fight regressive 2A restrictions that seek to place firearm ownership out of the reach of lower income citizens. We must fight the regressives that would love nothing else than to price folks out of the ability to keep themselves safe.

[Kaleva]

9. When writing the OP, I was thinking about open or conceal carry options

From what I've read, I'd be hesitant to purchase a Hi-Point semi-auto pistol but I've heard nothing but good about their carbines. A carbine isn't practical for open or concealed carry though.

Open carry in Michigan is legal, with restrictions at certain places, but one has to take a class prior to getting a concealed carry permit which can cost close to or over a $100 to take and the nearest one I can find is about 60 some miles away from my home. On top of that, one must pay $105 to the county clerk when applying for a permit.

Here is a link to a post I made back in 2012 which listed typical costs and expenses:

"Some prices and costs

RUGER SP101 .357MAG $395.00


RUGER SP101 holster (Amazon.com) $20.74

Speedloader DBL Pouch with 3 Loaders for .38/357(Ebay) $25.00


Federal Premium .357 Mag ammo $24.00 for a 20 round box

Tula Cartridge Works .357 ammo $18.00 for a 50 round box

PMC .357 ammo $400.00 1000 rounds

MBI .38 Special ammo $290.00 1000 rounds (.38 Special rounds can be fired in a .357 Magnum gun)


NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course $75.00

NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course (satisfies MI CPL training requirement) $90.00

NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation (satisfies WI CPL training requirement) $100.00

NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course $200.00


MI Concealed Pistol Application fee $105.00

WI Concealed Pistol Application fee $50.00


Range fees
Action Impact Gun Range & Firearms Store in Southfield MI (near Detroit).

Gun range fee $10.00 per 1/2 hour

MI CPL Certification course $99.00

Handgun rental $10.00

The store gives a limited amount of free range time if one purchases a qualifying gun there.


The more experienced here could give some ideas as to how often one should go to a gun range to practice, how long they should be there and about how much ammo one can expect to shoot each time."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=60469

[Socal31]

10. I don't mind a minor financial barrier to entry for firearms.

They can be relatively inexpensive if it is a priority in your life. As long as it isn't an artificial barrier imposed by the government, to clarify.

The people who really feel the pain of being poor are those who cannot come up with 10% of their bail amount, so they sit in hell for trial, even though they are still considered innocent.

To exercise free speech online you need some sort of computer and Internet connection.

[kioa]

11. By that token the 1st Amendment depends on financial position.

Or do you not think that Freedom of speech extends to the Internet?

[Fred Sanders]

16. The right to life, liberty and happiness should also be fully funded? Your depth of insincerity is

so precious.

[Kaleva]

17. Not really

Speaking is pretty much free, writing a letter to the editor will cost a stamp and an envelope and many public libraries offer use of a computer with internet access free of charge.

[kioa]

18. Yes really.

Arms=weapons

A pointy stick is a weapon.

In the same way free speech is protected both by speaking & on the Internet, so to does the right to keep and bear arms protects both a pointy sticks & firearms.
The fact that computers & firearms both have monetary value doesn't change the right to either the 1st nor the 2nd.

[JC4145]

19. Well, according to some, the 2nd (and therefore others?) only apply to..

what was in use at the time the Bill of Rights was written, and I'm sure they never imagined the internet when they wrote the 1st amendment.