Did you know that opposition to gun control is an "unconscionable position"?

[NaturalHigh]

Really. I read it right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026636180

[Fred Sanders]

1. You read it right and it is right. Any other reading is right wing(ish).

Last edited Thu May 7, 2015, 03:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

2. I think you have hit the nail on the head with your last sentence

But I cant say that and get away with it

Having said that, I am certain that if Bernie were president, he would go along with the nations desire to control guns.

[Puha Ekapi]

19. Except for the annoying...

...fact that there is very little support for strict gun control.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

22. I dont think so. I think there is a VERY loud pro gun NRA and supporters, some of them

are not total assholes, too.

But overall I think the average American is getting to the point where reasonable gun control is becoming attractive.

Evolution will eventually result in there being no guns or weapons at all, of course.

But that is a long way off

[NaturalHigh]

23. "Evolution will eventually result in there being no guns or weapons at all"

LOL...I just love it when anti-gunners post stuff like that! You guys are killing me here!

[GGJohn]

27. Except that's not true at all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/12/04/support-for-stricter-gun-laws-continues-to-drop/

src=&w=1484

Evolution will eventually result in there being no guns or weapons at all, of course.

[NaturalHigh]

5. Yes, I know I read it right.

Thanks for clarifying, though, I guess.

[krispos42]

11. That viewpoint turns the discussion into something else.

It's no longer about the quality and merits of any particular proposal, and any attempt to have that discussion is automatically discredited.

It becomes an echo chamber of self-reinforcing back-slapping and incessant whining about how the brilliant ideas are not getting put into law.

[beevul]

28. It seems to me...

It becomes an echo chamber of self-reinforcing back-slapping and incessant whining about how the brilliant ideas are not getting put into law.

It seems to me, theres a group which rather closely fits that remark.

Like a glove, in fact.

[NaturalHigh]

37. "It seems to me, theres a group which rather closely fits that remark."

The tide is turning, don't you know!

[beevul]

16. Hey fred, Meet meet mister Dictionary.

lib-er-al

[lib-er-uh l, lib-ruh l]

1.

favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

2.

(often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

3.

of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.

4.

favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

5.

favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression:
a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

6.

of or relating to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

7.

free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal


By the dictionary definition, gun control is not "liberal", gun rights is. And most gun control supporters definitely also have an issue with number 7.

[Maedhros]

3. It could be construed as ignoring a huge problem...[n/t]

[upaloopa]

4. We should not have a country where there is

complete unregulated gun ownership.
For instance, domestic abusers should not have guns. To oppose that is unconscionable.

[Lurks Often]

7. We don't live in a country with "complete unregulated gun ownership"

The Federal and state laws regulating gun ownership may not be strict enough for you, but they do exist.

As for "domestic abusers should not have guns" I invite your attention to boxes 11i and 11h at the link
https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[upaloopa]

10. I am not going to get in to a long drawn out gun thread thanks

[Lurks Often]

13. Then don't post things demonstrably untrue

You made statements that were outright false, got called on it and your response is "I am not going to get in to a long drawn out gun thread thanks"?

[upaloopa]

14. I replied to the OP

You can ban me I guess. But this place acts like a spider who spins a web then tries to draw the prey in.
No thanks

[Lurks Often]

15. This is a discussion board, if you don't want people responding to you

don't post, especially posts that are so obviously and easily disproved as false.

[upaloopa]

32. People can respond all they want I don't have to reply

But if you are saying people who beat their partners should have gun rights, you are wrong

[Lurks Often]

34. Proof that you didn't click on the ATF link

The link was directly from the ATF website and showed where on the Form 4473 that says: People convicted of domestic violence are prohibited from buying firearms.

You will not find ONE post where I said people who beat their partners should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

[NaturalHigh]

38. People convicted of domestic violence...

are prohibited from owning guns. That's a pretty well-known fact.

The problem with so many anti-gun arguments is people saying we need laws against something when in fact we already have laws against it. Passing more laws won't keep criminals from breaking them.

[beevul]

20. Just admit you are wrong, and you wont have to.

You are, in fact, wrong.

[DonP]

12. 20,000 federal, state and local laws aren't enough we need a few more

And they'll keep demanding more gun control, until there is never another crime committed with a gun in the entire US.

Oh, and don't ask them for an example of a law that works or would have actually stopped a specific crime or it's back to "NRA Talking Points".

In return for pursuing this moral high ground and trying to force feed Eastern urban thinking on the rest of the country, we'll keep losing more state governorships and house and senate seats.

But that will all be the evil NRA's fault, not the dim bulbs demanding something at a bumper sticker level of thinking.

Why doesn't someone ask these purists about the Bansalot crew, who won't vote for Bernie if he's the candidate because of his gun related votes? Or is that too uncomfortable?

[beevul]

29. If they see 20000 plus laws as "complete unregulated gun ownership"...

If they see 20000 plus laws as "complete unregulated gun ownership", one can only imagine what they'd consider "regulated".

On the other hand, calling the state of having 20000 plus gun laws "complete unregulated gun ownership" does certainly identify them as a gun control extremist, does it not?


I'm sure there are a whole lot of gun criminals in jail serving time, who would be really interested in knowing that there is complete unregulated gun ownership in America, and that they're in fact serving bogus sentences.

[DonP]

30. Their ability to ignore reality and facts are "impressive"

Like the way they cling to that 25+ year old survey that said "40% of all gun sales have no background checks." Sure, since it was done the year they were first required. It scares the peasantry that aren't paying attention.

But you don't see Bloomie or anyone else doing a new survey, because 40% sounds a lot scarier than the 8 or 10% it really is now.

[NaturalHigh]

36. Speaking of ignoring reality and facts...

they steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that a large percentage of gun deaths are suicides, not murders. Yet Japan, with draconian gun laws, has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S. With that said, how many lives would really be saved by a gun ban?

[NaturalHigh]

35. The one law that most of them are interested in...

is the one banning possession of all firearms, 2nd Amendment be damned.

[NYC_SKP]

6. First of all, we have gun control. Second, we don't need to condone lawsuits that will fail.

Sanders vote to restrict the ability for ambulance chasers to goad victims into suing manufacturers of legal objects that are used illegally because they have deep pockets was a smart vote.

That's really all there is to the matter.

On the surface it sounds like it supports gun makers, but really it supports victims and victims' families against suits which, if they lose (and they do) put them into debt for repaying defendants' legal costs.

[NaturalHigh]

8. Exactly. All one needs to do is take a glance at the Aurora families.

They're on the hook for something like $200,000 in legal fees after having their lawsuits tossed. Personally I think that the Brady Foundation and the lawyers who told them it was a good idea should have to pay.

[DonP]

26. Still waiting for that gun control "Go Fund Me" donation page to show up

To support their "principles".

[NaturalHigh]

31. Why even bother? Bloomberg probably has that in his wallet.

Oh wait - that's right. The Bloomberg cult doesn't really care about the plebes except when he can exploit them.

Maybe a Go Fund Me campaign will be necessary.

[DonP]

33. "Somebody else's Money" is a basic tenet of gun control supporters

I've noticed over the years here that none of those virulent gun control supporters ever talks about their support, financially, of any of the big "grabber groups".

We did have one that claimed she had donated $2,500 to Brady. But that was exposed as a lie when the 501-C3 total public contributions came out and showed a total of only $1,100 for the whole year.

Oh they rant and rave about unregulated gun sales etc., but never proudly talk about how they joined the Brady Group or contributed to this group or that group.

They never seem to attend town hall meetings either or speak out in the real world, the way most of us do at one point or another. Or if they do it never enters into their conversations online.

At one meeting here (Illinois) about opening a new gun range three Bloomie Moms Demand Action people showed up, but none of them signed up to speak. A few of us did and they even asked if any of them had anything to say or add - nothing.

Then they posted on Facebook that they were "frightened and intimidated by all the gun owners". Well duh, it was about a gun range, who did they expect would attend?

(FWIW, They were treated politely and given seats up front, by some older gun owners that got there early. I'm sure it was terrifying for them to be treated with courtesy.)

[Shrike47]

9. I support gun control but disagree with the premise that opposing that bill was 'unconscionable.'

So sue me.

[Eleanors38]

17. The statement you reference suggests intolerance, doctrinal narrowness, and false morality...

Neither are useful guides to something better. We've seen it before.

[NaturalHigh]

18. I'm accustomed to seeing "doctrinal narrowness, and false morality"...

on any number of issues here. Unfortunately.

[Eleanors38]

21. Yes, the doctrinal approach seems to beget the "morality" without having to think further.

[ileus]

24. I don't think any of use are opposed to gun control, just opposed to stupid BS control

for controls sake....."Oh I'm a better person because I don't want you to have that right."

Or silly horseshit laws like "Oh that pistol grip makes your gun meaner."


Face it most controllers only understand "guns kill people" because it's all they've been told all these years.

[NaturalHigh]

25. "Oh that pistol grip makes your gun meaner."

That's the sort of horse manure that drives me crazy. Just because certain guns look scary to some people doesn't mean that those people have the right to ban them.

Then there are the people who will say that they unequivocally want all guns banned and even confiscated from decent, law-abiding gun owners. Oh, and the "what if" types. You know - "what if instead of just shooting the knife-wielding maniac he had missed and hit an innocent child" or "what if someone had started shooting back and killed a bunch of teenagers?" Those sorts. They're clueless, and that's the way they like it. For some reason they think they can pass laws to ban guns and everyone (criminals included) will just march down to the police station to surrender them and life in these United States will become one endless party of sunshine, barbecue, and delicious wine coolers.