(Virginia) Tech families want 1-gun-a-month law to stay

[jpak]

http://www.necn.com/02/25/12/Tech-families-want-1-gun-a-month-law-to-/landing_politics.html?&apID=2adbf7852b304df79db9ed5669026a1f

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — The parent of a Virginia Tech student wounded in the 2007 campus massacre says he's hopeful after appealing to Gov. Bob McDonnell (edit R - Transvaginal Ultrasound Mandate) to keep the state's one-gun-a-month law in place.

Andrew Goddard said McDonnell listened intently Saturday during a conference call with the families of Virginia Tech survivors and victims. He said the governor promised to get back to the group next week.

The Virginia Senate passed legislation earlier this month repealing the 1993 law, all but ensuring the demise of a statute enacted after the state became a supplier of guns used in crimes in major East Coast cities.

<more>

[fightthegoodfightnow]

1. Indeed

Heh gun lobby......do you really think a student needs to bring more than one gun to class to disrupt the learning environment or to 'protect' him/herself?

[friendly_iconoclast]

3. The VT killer OBEYED the "1 gun per month" law. So what good did it do?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

5. One Gun

Do you need more than one gun to protect you?
Do you need more than one gun to go hunting?
Do you need more than one gun to go target shooting?

More guns mean more opportunity for theft.
More guns benefit no one.

As for Virginia Tech shooter, apparently dozens of armed police couldn't stop him in time.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. I think you're confused about what that law actually did. There was no limit on the # of guns owned.

That wasn't "buy and keep one gun", it was "buy one handgun a month"- Virginians could still buy and keep twelve handguns a year if they could afford them, along with all the long guns they wanted.

So, again: What good did this law do?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

12. Reduces Number of Guns

Sure you can have as many as you can buy----just one a month.

12 a year.
120 in a decade.

Who seriously needs more and what are the risks (more) and benefits (none)?

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. What good did the absence of legal handguns since the '70s do for DC?

Kept the violent crime and murder rates down, did it?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

22. Another Soundbite

Why did DC voters, every mayor and every city council for decades reject the logic that is so self apparent to you?

Should we know what's better for our community than you?

[friendly_iconoclast]

42. I asked "What good did DC's handgun ban do?". It seems a simple question.

Perhaps you could actually answer it...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

45. See Previous Post

Questions are just as simple.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

137. Correct

....no limit in the number of guns you can own.

What's the problem again?

[rl6214]

52. Police aren't there to stop crimes or to protect anyone

they are there to investigate and clean up the mess after the event has happened.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

54. Seriously?

Police aren't there to stop crimes or protect anyone?

Well THEY don't need guns to 'investigate or clean up the mess'.

But of course they do protect and they do stop crime and they should carry guns.

[ManiacJoe]

60. Seriously.

The police do interrupt crimes and do protect individuals in the process, when they can. However, both the police and the courts acknowledge that doing do is not their main function. The job of the police is to protect and serve the community as a whole by investigating crimes after they occur and arresting the suspects for trial.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

65. Glad You Changed Your Mind

.....with your first sentence.

As for the rest, it's simply not true.

Just ask any one of the cops you see on the streets.

[rl6214]

93. Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

NY Times, police do not have a consitutional duty to protect someone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

[fightthegoodfightnow]

95. Oh Goody

.....now tell all those police departments to repaint their cars (you know -do the google search by image).

Constitutional right? Who the heck said anything about that? There's no 'right'. It's what they do.

How about some good old common sense? Heck, there's a cop movie named with that phrase!

[PavePusher]

97. "How about some good old common sense?"

Huh, I had no idea that catchy slogans and movie titles had greater legal weight than actual judical precedent and empirical evidence.

"common sense", indeed.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

101. Who Said They Do?

Not me.

[rl6214]

108. Oh so everything involving the police should be based upon slogans painted on cop cars?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

118. Nah

But heh....go ahead and tell a cop s/he doesn't protect or serve.

I suspect they will laugh to.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

141. Got It

....according to you.

MEMO TO COPS: We don't pay you to stop crime or protect anyone. Please turn in your government owned guns now. And if you see a crime commited, be sure to tell someone so we can investigate.

[one-eyed fat man]

56. You should look at the video

A student shot cell phone video of the stalwart campus police wandering about aimlessly, shooing away students, all the while waiting for the "real" police to show up.

You can listen to Cho leisurely shooting at an unhurried pace. until the SWAT team finally shows up and breaches the door. He killed himself almost immediately after the ARMED police entered the building.

Cho had almost a half hour to wander the building expending 174 rounds before "real police" entered the building. He reloaded 17 times using "ban legal" 10 round magazines. This while the campus police didn't do anything but secure the perimeter ensuring no one would interfere with the shooter unduly.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

134. See Your Point

.....securing the area so no one is in harm's way is a very, very bad thing.

Nonsense.

[gejohnston]

151. not what he was saying

he was saying that while everyone else was securing the area, at least a couple of them could have went in after him. VT police do have shotguns in their cars don't they?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

152. Ok

...I'll assume what you say is true.

Just supports my position that having more guns doesn't mean there's increased chance the nut case will be taken down.

I more inclined to put blame on the actual nut case and those who enabled him to have a gun rather than those who thought they were doing the right thing.

[gejohnston]

155. I blame only Cho

and maybe those around him that saw he was nuts.
Sorry, I fail to see how that supports your position. Another gun (or crossbow, throwing stars, atlatl, for that matter) would increase the chance of Cho being "neutralized" earlier, saving at least one life. The only thing we know for certain, is that another gun could not have made it worse.
Look at it this way, you are locked inside the building, no training in escape and evasion, no place to hide, and no means (that you can find) to defend yourself. If you happened to be near a window, you see the cops just standing around. Put yourself in those shoes.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

156. There Were Dozens of Tech Police

.....with guns and as you or someone pointed out, they didn't 'neutralize' him. I don't fault them. So even with all those guns, he wasn't taken down. Like you, I fault Choi. Unlike you, I also fault those who enabled him to have a gun.

[gejohnston]

157. I don't blame the individual cops

I blame their bosses or their bosses.they were following orders, but whoever made the policy to just stand around and wait for SWAT shares some responsibility.
It is not the guns, it is who has them.
You sell a guy a car, who then gets drunk off his ass and drives that car into a playground killing a couple of kids. Are you responsible?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

158. Comparing Law Abiding Cops

...to a bad driver who breaks the law and kills is not.....equitable.

I don't blame them. They did their best in a bad situation.

[gejohnston]

159. You misread what I said

guy who sold the car=guy who sold the gun
the driver=Cho

[fightthegoodfightnow]

160. Huh?

Were they both mentally competent to drive a car or shoot a gun?

[gejohnston]

168. no, and neither seller knew that.

because the clerk had no way of knowing that Cho was ruled mentally incompetent (making him a prohibited person). That is not on him or the NRA. The clerk only knew what the FBI told him. The FBI did not know because Virginia didn't bother to tell them.
Cho violated the Gun Control Act of 1968 by lying on the ATF form 4473. He then went on to commit mass murder.

The clerk would be to blame only if he knew Cho to be lying. Then the clerk would be in federal prison for violating GCA.
A Virginia court ruled Cho off his rocker
Virginia forgot to tell the FBI, leaving them in the dark
The FBI told the clerk to proceed with the sale based on the false information from Virginia
The clerk sold the gun because the FBI said Cho was OK.

with the car driver:
the seller had no way of knowing the buyer had multiple DUIs and was an alcoholic. He is not to blame.
The driver is the only one to blame.

It sounds like you are for prosecuting people who committed no crime, had no way of knowing what as about to happen, for an act someone else did.
That is like the liability protection. It only protects the gun industry from law suits that are basically SLAPP suits (filing friviolus and absurd lawsuits for the sole purpose of driving the target to financial ruin. The tactic was pioneered by corporate criminals to deal with pesky environmental/social justice advocates.)
When was that product liability passed? In 2002, Brady won one suit against Kahr arms because Kahr (IIRC) had a felon working for them (a crime). What the felon had to with the crime gun I can only speculate. But at the least, some HR people should have been canned.

For example:
Ruger makes a pistol, legally sells it to wholesaler with ATF oversight. In this case, NYPD decides to decides to buy Ruger pistols. Wholesaler sells the guns (legally with ATF oversight) to NYPD. Gangsters break into the police armory (like LAPD losing 20 SMGs and several pistols) or (this being NYPD), a cop sells some of those guns to a gang. The gang murders someone. Brady goes after the wholesaler and Ruger, but not the people who are actually responsible.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

169. There's alot in your post

I'll give it some thought.

[oneshooter]

161. And their best was, at best, nothing. The failure is with the Va. state system of reporting

to the Feds. No one individual to blame, without this reporting in a timely manner the sale was approved.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

162. That

....sounds more reasonable than blaming cops.

[one-eyed fat man]

176. Those who enabled him to have a gun

Start with his mother. She had to know she spawned a nutcase by that time. Blame everyone who came out of the woodwork saying how they "just knew" he was deranged, but did not do a damn thing about it.

Blame all those who didn't have him committed or the judge who didn't order his mental disqualifications to be included in the NICS database. Can't fail a background check if the file is empty.

The campus police and the University have more than a little blame. Cho had been the subject of many complaints, he was not unknown to them. He shot two people early that morning. He had time to go to town and mail his manifesto to NBC news and come back on campus. Cops all over the place, as the first victims had been discovered by that time, Cho comes back dressed in all black, trench coat, backpack, like he had come from Central Casting in a cheap movie. Walks across campus, chains the doors shut on Norris Hall and starts casually walking around shooting people.

[one-eyed fat man]

175. Maybe you should remember Texas

Before SWAT, it was a pair of beat cops who climbed the Tower and shot Charles Whitman. No bullet proof vests, no high capacity Glocks, no Patrol Rifles, no radios on their hip, no helicopters overhead for surveillance, just six shot .38 Special revolvers, the shotgun from their squad car and the balls to do their duty.

The campus cops at Virginia Tech used the same techniques that were decried as inadequate after Columbine. In the aftermath of Columbine police procedures for an active shooter were supposed to change so the first cops who showed up went in after the guy. Clearly procdures and training were inadequate.

Going back to the video, after the REAL cops use a shotgun to breach the door at Norris Hall you hear only one more gunshot from inside. That was Cho killing himself.

What good it it do for the entire Virgina Tech campus police force to stand around for a half hour shooing away the curious? It is hard not to believe that had Cho been challenged by an armed cop sooner he'd have ended it the same way, but with a lot fewer victims.

[GreenStormCloud]

181. Yes, it was a very bad thing.

Securing the area should take a lower priority than stopping the shooter. Securing the area allows him to keep on shooting. Stopping him stops the shooting thereby saving the lives of those inside.

[ileus]

62. yes...yes...and yes

Conceal carry = sub compact, and compact.

Home defense = full sized pistol, shotgun and carbine.

Hunting. 22,12ga, 243 minimum of three long guns and a 22 and 44 mag hunting pistol

Target shooting, 22 pistol 22 rifle, 220 swift, 308, 45 1911, 9mm target, 28 ga and 12ga shotgun.

Plinking 223 rifle, 22 rifle and pistol,

Next is collecting.....dozens of all types can be bought to complete a collection.

The gun a month only covers handguns and doesn't even apply to CHP holders. Why hold the economy back, if people have the disposable income to blow on a hobby let them.

[AtheistCrusader]

136. Yes, actually.

A rifle suitable for small game like a coyote, is not appropriate for shooting a deer, and a deer rifle may not be appropriate for shooting a bear or moose.

So yes, we do need more than one gun for hunting, unless you know of hunters that only hunt one solitary species.

Same for target shooting. There are different targets, different ranges, different classes of competition, and all use different types of firearms. From single-action cowboy to pistol competition, shotguns, long range rifle, etc.

For 'protection' I use the most gun available. When I'm out and about, that means a pistol. Different styles of clothing demand different firearms to ensure concealment. Around the house, it's a rifle or a shotgun.

Maybe if you knew ANYTHING about shooting, you would know this.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

148. So......

.....12 a year would about cover it. That's one a month......right?

[AtheistCrusader]

179. For many users, that would probably be fine.

I've gone years without buying a new firearm. Then again, I've acquired several in a single month for various perfectly legal and honrable purposes.

This seems like a solution looking for a problem. What EXACTLY is it you are trying to solve with the 'one gun a month' thing? It has zero impact on issues like Virginia Tech, or Columbine..

[rl6214]

51. Why don't you ask the likes of Cho?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

66. You Go Ahead

I don't need to.

[rl6214]

94. You don't need to because you are afraid of the answer.

Cho walked around and took his time shooting the unarmed while the campus police sat on their thumbs and waited for the real cops to show up. As soon a someone with a gun (the real cops) showed up, he shot himself. Had ANY of those students or profs been armed it could have been stopped a lot sooner.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

96. What a Crock

Campus police ARE armed at Virginia Tech.

The notion he shot himself because he was somehow afraid of the cops is just absurd.

He shot others and himself because he was socially isolated and mentally disturbed.....oh, and he was still allowed to buy a gun.

[rl6214]

109. You seriously cant be believing the BS you are peddling

The "armed" campus police sat on their thumbs allowing dozens of students to be shot. They did nothing.

He kept on shooting until the swat team got into the building, then he killed himself. I guess he did that because he wanted to be a nice guy and not shoot at the cops.

"He shot others and himself because he was socially isolated and mentally disturbed.....oh, and he was still allowed to buy a gun."

Which he purchase legally. You just can't look at someone and tell they are mentally disturbed. Maybe you could lend your powers to the authorities so they can prevent this from happening.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

113. Reality

Here's the reality: He purchased legally despite having well documented mental health issues.

Why? Well, the gun lobby didn't think they rise to the level to warrant restricting his ability to buy a gun.

As for your claim the armed cops did 'nothing', I'll leave you to lobby for revocation of their NRA membership. If they did nothing, so much for your claim that having a gun would have prevented it.

[rl6214]

115. Reality?

"Here's the reality: He purchased legally despite having well documented mental health issues."

Where was it "well documented"? Why didn't the nics background check know anything about this "well documented mental health issues"?

"Why? Well, the gun lobby didn't think they rise to the level to warrant restricting his ability to buy a gun. "

More BS. What did the gun lobby have anything to do with his mental health issues and his ability to buy a gun. They didn't put the info into the background check system. That's not their job.

"As for your claim the armed cops did 'nothing', I'll leave you to lobby for revocation of their NRA membership."

Don't even know WTF you're going on about here.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

117. Gosh

...ok.

Are you saying he didn't have documented mental health issues?

What's not whose job?

[AtheistCrusader]

138. No, he was able to because ONE STATE had weak mental health reporting mechanisms.

What Cho did, he couldn't have done in Washington State.

The 'gun lobby' didn't cause that. In fact, the gun lobby has sponsored and passed legislation setting reporting requirements around NICS for mental health. The NRA was as instrumental in passing NICS as the Brady coalition was.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

142. So....

.....you think that the NRA should support and Virginia should enact that portion of Washington state's law?

[AtheistCrusader]

177. They have long since done so.

[PavePusher]

2. So, how did this law have anything to do with VT?

Can you prove that it reduces crime? I'm betting.... not.

[friendly_iconoclast]

4. You do know you're ruining a perfectly good appeal to emotion, right?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

6. More Guns

Having more guns doesn't increase likelihood of more being stolen?

Tell me how many guns is sufficient to meet your needs?

[oneshooter]

7. Well I have just over 200 in my collection, and just bought another 30 gun safe.

And have room in the gunroom for 2 more.

So many choices!

"Tell me how many guns is sufficient to meet your needs?" As many as I have the funds to legally obtain. what limits would you place on it?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

9. One a Month Works for Me

So if you were robbed when away from house, you'd have 230+ guns at risk?

Yea, I'd say that's more than 'oneshooter' needs.

[friendly_iconoclast]

14. *Do* let us know when the Senate confirms you as Secretary of Needs.

Until then, your opinion of what oneshooter 'needs' will not matter in the least.

In the meantime,of course, you are perfectly free to not own a gun...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

15. Can I Be a Free

........from the ramifications of you and other gun owners from having one?

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. No more than I can be free of the ramifications of your free speech.

A situation that I heartily endorse, btw...

[Callisto32]

20. No, you cannot.

You have no right to enforce such restrictions.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

25. Absolutely!

Just move.

There have to be places where no one may own arms and the rules are strictly enforced.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

27. You First

Who would have thought the whole 'love it or leave it' 1960's Vietnam mantra of the political right would be embraced by a Democratic Underground member today?

Hint- we live in a democracy.

LOL.

[Fortran]

29. We live in a democratic republic. Majority rules unless it fucks with minorities.

I'd have thought DUers would have known that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

31. Republic?

When can this law abiding tax paying US citizen expect to have voting represention in Congress?

This is not a republic.

And my options are not only to either love it leave it.

[Fortran]

33. You don't think the USA is a democratic republic? Wow.

I can't think of anything to say that wouldn't get me booted. Let's just say and

[fightthegoodfightnow]

39. Do I Have a Voting Member

...in the House or Senate? I do not.

What's sad is you are laughing.

[Fortran]

40. All my congresspeople are assholes. That doesn't mean the system is unworkable.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

41. You Get To Vote

....them in or out of office. I don't.

Nothing 'wrong' with me. Why do you ask?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

47. 'cuse me...

...you do, to...


But you still need to move....


...or maybe change the law...


DC is maybe due for an 'occupy the district' movement, you think?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

49. Gosh

No I don't.
No I won't.
Yes you can.
Yes we do.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

58. I'm with you.

Yes you can.
Yes we do.

Start something. It would be a move in the right direction.

[BiggJawn]

63. You can't vote them in or out?

You live in DC?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

64. Correct

I live in DC

[BiggJawn]

85. My sympathies.

Beautiful city, fucked up laws.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

86. Write Your Member of Congress

Everyone else does.

Our laws have to pass our city council, our mayor, referendum recall, your House, your Senate, our President and the approval of every blogger in America.

What a @$%$ing mess.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

44. We do indeed.

That democracy is practiced in the election of officials. Individual rights are not subject 'to a vote' not to prior restraint or suspension without due process.

Rights are attributes of humanity. A right cannot be legislated away. If that were true, whatever group that was in minority, would be subject to unreasonable restrictions.

Hint - we are humans not cattle.

NLAA

[fightthegoodfightnow]

48. Elected Officials?

There are hundreds of thousands of law abiding tax paying legal citizens who are mentally competent and of legal voting age who have no voting represention in the House or Senate.

Don't lecture on majority or minority rights about guns or anything else until that is fixed.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

50. Look buddy...

...I sympathize with you and the other DC residents. You guys have a raw deal. History is the just one long list of folks that had raw deals.

If you believe that denying rights, somehow improves your situation, that's fine but it's not logical.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

55. Thank You

Thank you for at least acknowledging the raw deal.

I reject, however, your notion that anyones rights were denied or that I should be concerned about whether our 'situation' would be different if the citizens of DC agreed with your interpretation of the Constitution.

[Callisto32]

73. Clearly, Old Ben had never been to DC.

[Fortran]

28. Sure, you can move to a country without a a Bill of Rights.

See how simple it is?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

35. Wow

So original.

Read other posts in thread.

The whole 'love it or leave it' Vietnam mantra of the 1960s political right finds a DU friend.

[Fortran]

37. I didn't say you must love it. You only have to respect it.

We all have that responsibility as citizens. Again, I'm surprised a DUer doesn't know basic American civics.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

38. Basic Civics?

You mean like 'no taxation without representation?

You mean like voting rights are a fundamental principal of a republic?

You mean like my right to vote should not be dependent on who or what I respect?

[pipoman]

67. This is always your cross to bear

did you know the situation when you decided to live in DC? I'm guessing so. You have the freedom to pick your shit up and move 10 miles...your problem is solved. Most here either support or at least do not oppose DC voting and representation. Your plight has not a single thing to do with 2nd amendment rights or this thread. How about trying to stay on subject for a change instead of beating that dead horse again, and again, and again----->?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

68. Got It

Your (gun) rights are important.

My voting rights are not.

So tell me again, why the gun lobby amended the last proposed Voting Rights bill for DC?

[pipoman]

69. Correct

your voting rights are not important in the context of this thread. Your voting rights have not a single thing to do with the subject at hand. Do you bring this to every thread you respond to regardless the subject? Apparently. You are free to start or participate in every DC voting rights threads, not to change the subject of every thread. Again, did you know the situation in DC when you decided to live there?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

70. Are We Talking Guns?

You state: "Your voting rights have not a single thing to do with the subject at hand."

Again, WHY did the gun lobby amend the last DC Voting Rights?

[pipoman]

71. You do realize this isn't the topic of this thread, no?

You are certainly free to start a new thread all about your concerns.

So you did know the situation in DC when you decided to live there yet chose to live there anyway. Now you cry daily about the decision you made.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

72. Guns are the Topic

At your request, I'll stick to guns and not to why I live in DC.

So why did the gun lobby amend the last DC voting rights bill?

[pipoman]

76. Wrong

Guns are the topic of the group. The topic of this thread is very specific as with all threads here...the topic of this thread is a proposed change to gun laws in Virginia. Not a single thing to do with DC. Please try to follow along.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

77. Oh..........

......weeping Jesus indeed.....so why do you want to talk about why I live in DC again? Right. But heh, the profanity was a nice touch.

As a Va. Tech alumnus, I support the University's position: no guns on campus.

I also oppose any student buying more than one gun a month off campus......until perhaps that same person reads at least one book a month.

[pipoman]

98. Exactly what profanity would that be? Care to retract?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

102. No

.

[pipoman]

119. I have always disagreed with you on this subject,

but I have never questioned your actual character as a human being...until now.

"Humility leads to strength and not to weakness. It is the highest form of self-respect to admit mistakes and to make amends for them." –Jay McCloy

[fightthegoodfightnow]

120. If I'm Wrong

......I apologize.

I have neither the time or the inclination to go through dozens or hundreds of post.

Question my character all you want....I do and that's not a bad thing as your quote points out.

[beevul]

82. How about you tell us.

"So why did the gun lobby amend the last DC voting rights bill?"

How about you tell us why the DC delegate shelved the bill.

And whether you agree with the choice to shelve it, and why, before you complain any further.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

87. Are We Back To DC?

Read all posts in this board.

Covered territory.

[GreenStormCloud]

125. Because they thought it would pass and they could get their rider passed too. N/T

[fightthegoodfightnow]

128. At the expense

.....of the voting rights of half a million voters 90% of whom are Democrats.

Nice.

[beevul]

172. Democrats scuttled the bill.

And yet you blame the gun lobby.


Why is that.

[Callisto32]

74. That's fucking rich.

No, the same government you want to save you from the guns amended that.

Weeping Jesus.....

[fightthegoodfightnow]

75. Ok

You mean your government. Got it.

[PavePusher]

79. That is, of course, not even close to what was stated.

Your continued dodging is noted.

[era veteran]

24. I have this feeling that it would not be easy

to rob oneshooter's place. I for one am tired with my culture accepting the amount of home break ins and invasions. It is not the victims fault if someone steals their property. Stealing as lifestyle has been abetted by the state. Fuck that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

26. I Wouldn't Bet Your Life or His on It

...and of coutses it's not his or any victims fault if robbed or assaulted.

I for one am tired of a violent culture that accepts the notion someone wanting or needing 200 guns is acceptable risk for the larger community.

[Fortran]

30. How do you feel about a culture that glorifies home invaders and thugs and hates their victims?

I'm seeing way too much of that shit nowadays.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

32. Oppose That Too

And I suspect the two are related and feed off each other.

[Fortran]

34. Schizophrenia has a way of doing that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

36. Yea

...well now you just digress from civil discourse to just being rude.

[oneshooter]

83. I sounds to me that it is more like a case of hoplophobia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

[fightthegoodfightnow]

144. Give an Example

.....that doesn't involve guns.

[AtheistCrusader]

139. How many hands does this 'someone' have?

If it's more than 2, then he MIGHT present more of a hypothetical risk than a person who only has two guns.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

143. Good to Know

....so let's be clear....how many guns can one person shoot at a time .... and I'm not talking Matrix reality.

[AtheistCrusader]

178. Usually one, but some platforms allow for firing one in each hand.

Pistols would be an example. Reloading quickly becomes confusing, and accuracy suffers when you don't grip a firearm with both hands, but it can be done.

So, aside from potential theft, which is an issue if you have one or one hundred guns, how is having an arsenal really all that dangerous?

If you can only fire so many at once... well. Seems like it's not a problem.

[oneshooter]

43. And I would guess that you would be among the first to gang on me if it happened.

I won't say it won't happen, but then again they break into bank vaults.

So what do you believe should be the limits of firearms ownership. And how would you enforce it?

As a resident of Texas the laws that effect my ownership of firearms is mainly local, what would you do about that?

How does my ownership of firearms in Texas effect you in Washington DC?

Answers, if you please.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

53. Hope Not

I hope it doesn't happen as I'm sure you do as well but the fact is, as you acknowledge, it could.

My opinion on what gun regulations should be in place are complex (despite what some may think) and I would like to think can be changed. I don't have the answer to your question but I think gun violence is epidemic in this country and I would welcome an alternative solution to the notion we need more guns.

Unfortunately, Texas and Virginia are the source for most illegal guns used in violent crimes in DC.

[rl6214]

112. "Unfortunately, Texas and Virginia are the source for most illegal guns used in violent crimes in DC

Really? Got a source for that?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

116. Amnesty Day

Next time DC has a gun amnesty day, I 'll forward you the results of where the illegal guns came from. In DC, it's ALWAYS the same: Texas and Virginia.

[Johnny Rico]

23. Remember Brady II? It would have established the need for an "arsenal license"

if you wished to own more than 20 guns or 1,000 rounds of ammunition.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s103-1878&tab=summary

There are those on this board who advocate laws even more restrictive than that...

As for your collection, I'll just have to do the best I can to try to catch up! I'll be going to the Tulsa, OK gun show next month (largest in the world!), so I should be able to make a good start.

[oneshooter]

46. Haven't even touched the ammo yet. Thats a whole nother question! n/t

[fightthegoodfightnow]

122. Not Sure

...but buying 30 guns at a time is not an arms collector....it's an arms dealer.

And no one needs 200 guns.

[oneshooter]

133. You need to work on your reading comrehension.

And not let your hopolaphobia get in the way. I just bought a new 700lb fireproof gun safe. The collection is getting crowded and I require more secure storage area. I will, and have, moved 12 longarms and 10 handguns into the new safe. I just today got it moved into place and bolted down, quite a job for 3 people!
I have bought as many as 20 firearms at a garage sale( divorce sale acually) and , after getting them checked and cleared by the local LE, used many of them as trade goods to better my collection.
Nothing illegal at all.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

135. Wow

...a 700 pound safe? Really?

And you moved 22 arms into it?

I'm sure someone takes comfort in knowing the other 200+ are ......shall we say......not as secure?

[oneshooter]

146. All my arms safes weigh between 650 and 700lbs EMPTY, and are fireproof to 1600deg for 30 min.

All are bolted to the floor with 4ea 1/2" bolts and bolted to the filled concrete block wall with 2 more.
My arme are as secure as I can make them, If you hace a problem with that it is not my concern.
Your hopolaphobia is showing again. Please try to control it.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

147. On Behalf of the Memories

....of those killed from stolen guns ......thank you.

[oneshooter]

149. I have never, in over 40 years of collecting, had a firearm stolen.

Now about that apology for the uninformed, snarky, ignorant reply you gave the last time.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

150. Nah

....my response was sincere.

Too bad you cannot see that.

The presumption that ALL gun owners secure their guns in the same manner is not in concert with reality or the story in pretty much any newspaper any day of the week.

[oneshooter]

170. So this reply was sincere..................

"I'm sure someone takes comfort in knowing the other 200+ are ......shall we say......not as secure?"

And not snarky?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[fightthegoodfightnow]

171. See that Question Mark?

The one at the end of the quote.

You said they were.

I thanked you.

You took offense.

Ok.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Tell me how much political speech is sufficient to meet your needs?

Tell me that, and you'll know how many guns I deem it necessary for me to own...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

11. Guns Seek to Squelch Political Speech

How many politicians have been shot or killed in your lifetime?

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Animism? Really? Guns don't do actually do anything unless some human operates them.

I think your beef ought to be taken up with the assassins (and would-be assasins), and not their tools...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

21. RIGHT

I forgot.....guns don't kill people.....but heh.....at least we know you don't think guns are used to squelch political speech reality not withstanding. Their 'tools' are the same as your toys.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

123. Is That The Only Speech?

I believe in restrictions on campaign donations as political speech.

Ready for your restrictions on gun ownership?

[Clames]

13. Once again you are demonstrating one of the key parts...

...of the failure that is the anti-gun side. Need. I can own as many as I want and if I want several rifles, shotguns, and handguns for hunting, target shooting, and self-defence then I will. Owning more guns does not increase the chances for theft, that is absolutely baseless.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

16. Not the Chance for Theft

Last edited Sat Feb 25, 2012, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

.....just the chance for more guns being stolen.

Actually, I change my mind. Ir DOES increase the chance of theft if the theives are looking for guns.

[era veteran]

57. So if you are the victim you are also at fault?

Someone stealing is ok, someone owning bad?
Then there is that pesky 2nd Amendment thing. I will support and would fight for your right to exercise your 1st Amendment rights to criticize others that believe in their 2nd Amendment rights. This was the national covenant we were born under. 236 years same government, a good formula and mix that Constitution of ours.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

59. Restrictions

No to the questions.

There are and should be restrictions on both Amendments.

No yelling fire in crowded theaters.

No hunting without a hunting license during hunting season.

[PavePusher]

80. The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.

Your continued dodging is noted.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

88. Read my Post Again

What part of my stating NO to your questions is dodging?

Every Bill of Rights is restricted by Court interpretation.

I disagree with yours. That's not dodging. That's a fact.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

124. According to You

Ever heard why Concord was so important during the American revolution?

[PavePusher]

78. Answer the questions posed....

and I'll consider addressing your dodge.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

91. What Question is that?

.

[PavePusher]

99. Don't flatter yourself thinking you're being clever.

We are quite used to your kind in here.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm

[fightthegoodfightnow]

103. Whatever

It was an honest question......but heh wrap yourself in your personal dislike of me. I couldn't possibly be flattered by anything you have to say about or to me.

[PavePusher]

107. "Personal dislike"? Hardly.

All I know about you is that you are a Pro-gun-restrictionist and use a debate tactic on one internet board that is well known and will not win you any prizes.

You simply aren't important enough to me in any way to actually have any feelings about you. Have a good day with your narcissism.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

130. Of Course

.....I'm not that important to you.

No doubt why you spend so much time responding to my posts.

Do tell what that 'debate tactic' you think I employ......oh and then let's do return to a debate about guns.....

[GreenStormCloud]

121. In America we don't have a Dep't of Needs.

I don't have to justify my guns on the basis of your idea of my "needs". All I have to do is have the money and the want.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

127. Yea Yea Yea

....and everyone wants your guns....as you do.

Got it.

[GreenStormCloud]

131. You ran away from the point.

I don't have to justify my purchases based on needs.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

132. No

....and neither do I on why I think it's lawful to restrict the number of guns you buy.

[PavePusher]

153. On the contrary, you do have to justify a restriction.

That's how things work in a place where freedom and liberty are the default positions. You have to justify the need for the restriction and, if you want to keep it, prove that it has been effective.

Noteably, you have completely failed to do any of that, even though asked repeatedly.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

154. What a Surprise

I am certain I will never do that to your satisfaction assuming what you say is true (it's not).

So......continue feeling good about your wet paper bag intellectual superiority.

I'll make the argument to those with open minds.....listen if you want, chime in every so often but save yourself for the really good rebuttal points.

[ileus]

61. The one gun (pistol) rule doesn't apply to me.

What are they going to do to prevent me from buying two or more? Why don't they care about me?

[PavePusher]

81. Since the conversation got so thouroughly derailed, I'll repose the relevent questions:

So, how did this law have anything to do with VT?

Can anyone prove that it reduces crime? I'm betting.... not.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

89. Easy

People are sick and tired of the negative consequences of a gun culture whose response to gun violence and killings is always 'so what' or 'who cares?' They often fail to recognize the problem, offer no alternatives or solutions and then act surprised at the anti-gun backlash until things settle down and it happens again.

No Virginia Tech student (or anyone) has a need for more than one gun a month.

Will it solve anything? Who knows but I've heard not one alternative solution to helping prevent what happened on the Tech campus. Not one. Unlike some, the families of the dead do care.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

92. Let Me Add

How does eliminating the law benefit anyone?

[PavePusher]

100. "No Virginia Tech student (or anyone) has a need for more than one gun a month."

Asserting something does not make it true, and Constitutional Rights are not predicated on some non-defined quality of "need".

You have not yet proved anything.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

105. Ok

Prove that having more guns per capita has reduced our prison population in proportion.

[friendly_iconoclast]

163. He has no duty to prove something that he has not asserted.

See how that works?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

164. Coming from Someone

....who is speaking for others.

[PavePusher]

173. He's right. n/t

[fightthegoodfightnow]

110. Interesting

Of everything you could have responded to in my post, you offered not one solution on how to prevent what happened at Virginia Tech. Not one.

Tell me, is there a strategic advantage to prevent crime, protect oneself or defend others by being restricted to buying one gun a month? Tell me how many guns do shoot at a time when you protect yourself or others?

[friendly_iconoclast]

165. Why should he offer anything? Cho *obeyed* the one gun a month law, so it prevented nothing.

Your absolute refusal to acknowledge that fact, in combination with your determined attempts to threadjack over the subject of DC voting rights leads me to state for the record that your presence in this thread has been nothing less than one long attempt at disruption.

Alert away, if you feel you must. I stand by my statement.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

167. He Doesn't Have To

But the question remains.

As for your question, you'll have to go through the thread where I acknowledge that I don't know if it's done any good but I do know it's done no harm and is constitutionally permissible.

Look .... DU has an IGNORE feature. If you don't like me, my posts or my positions, use it. I hold no malice toward you.

[AtheistCrusader]

140. Virgina state's mental health reporting laws were corrected after that incident.

So, since you didn't hear about it, I guess you don't read the news.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

145. Corrected?

How?

[AtheistCrusader]

180. VA joined 12 other states (like Washington) in authorizing

reporting of mental health records to NICS. Of 32 other states, some only require reporting to in-state databases for local checks, which is great, but someone could be trying to buy a gun after moving to another state, and only the federal NICS would catch it.

"Virginia: In Virginia, the chief law enforcment officer of a county or city must ensure that any acquittal by reason of insanity is reported to the Department of State Police (DSP). In addition, court clerks are required to certify and forward a copy of all court orders involving involuntary commitment of an individual, or containing a finding that an individual is "incapacitated", to DSP. DSP is then authorized to forward this information to the FBI for inclusion in the NICS database. In response to the Virginia Tech tragedy, Virginia Governor Timothy Kaine issues an Executive Order (50) on April 30, 2007 directing all executive branch employees and law enforcement to consider court-ordered outpaitent treatment as involuntary admission to a mental health facility, and to report it to the State Police, and NICS"

Virginia legislature has clarified what they mean by 'incapacitated', etc. I think Washington State's laws are a bit clearer, and we have fewer paitent confidentiality laws that might prevent a report getting to NICS by way of privacy laws. Prohibiting firearms possession is the ONLY purpose this state allows to violate paitent privacy.

[beevul]

84. Shouldn't the title read "Parent of brady shill..."?

And lets not forget that last paragraph:


"The families of Virginia Tech students, as well as survivors of the 2007 campus massacre, have been active in Virginia and elsewhere to limit the sale of guns."


Limit the sale of guns to people who shouldn't have them? No.

Limit the sale of guns to criminals? No.

Limit the sale of guns to those who are violent? No.

"Limit the sale of guns".

Yup.

That about says it all.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

90. Citation Please

.

[PavePusher]

104. It's the only part of the cited article that the OP did NOT quote. Fascinating, eh? n/t

[fightthegoodfightnow]

106. Makes Sense

....to you I'm sure.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Clames]

111. Well that...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

...seems to be your usual m.o.



Always humorous when the Brady Group considers being called anti-gun a "mischaracterization" yet do everything possible to be precisely that.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

114. Brady Bunch?

The 'mischaracterization' is your false assumption about my affiliation with the 'Brady bunch.'

[Clames]

126. Looks, sounds, smells like a duck...

...you know the rest...

[fightthegoodfightnow]

129. Yea

....got it....another rude insult.

[beevul]

166. LOL

Colin Goddard is the Assistant Director of Federal Legislation for the Brady Campaign.

Andrew Goddard is the President of the Richmond, VA Chapter of the Million Mom March.



Google it if you really need to cite it for yourself.

[PavePusher]

174. Mirror, mirror.... n/t