Female gun ownership is rising

[SecularMotion]

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 05:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Kansas City mother charged with shooting, killing her 5-year-old son

A 23-year-old Kansas City woman allegedly fatally shot her 5-year-old son during an argument with her boyfriend early Saturday and then blamed the shooting on an intruder, according to court documents.

Lisa Marie Hall, who had been drinking with her boyfriend, allegedly shot the boy once in the head. The shooting occurred just before 7 a.m. in a home at 415 N. Elmwood Ave.

Prosecutors on Sunday charged Hall with unlawful use of a firearm and endangering the welfare of a child. Prosecutors requested bond be set at $150,000.

The boyfriend told police he and Hall had purchased the handgun on Friday.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article34245615.html

[ileus]

1. I agree it's nice to see females taking interest in self defense and personal safety.

It's up to us to introduce females to firearms, and bring new shooters to the sport and CC market.

[Starboard Tack]

11. How would you have dealt with this particular female?

Would you have insisted she take safety and training before shooting her kid in the head, or after?

[ileus]

13. Well safety training should have started when she was 5 or 6.

Like with my daughter, she's 13 and has 8 years of experience. Firearm safety is a lifelong journey for those that enjoy the 2A, no 8 hour class is going to teach you what experience does.

For complete enjoyment of firearms one must spend many hours at the range, field, and home.

[Starboard Tack]

14. So, would you like to see that as a rule

Or is it OK for anyone to get a gun without any training and hope they don't shoot their kids or anyone else's?

[gejohnston]

16. I don't know about most places

but where I grew up, most people were already pretty well trained. Or at least, better trained than NYPD. Granted, the average 14 year old who goes through the required hunter safety course required by the Wyoming Fish and Game for their first hunting license is better trained than NYPD.
While gun accidents make the news, household chemicals kill many more kids.

[Starboard Tack]

17. Agreed.

So, do you think gun buyers should have to prove themselves by passing a test?

[TeddyR]

18. No

I don't see anything in the 2d Amendment about tests being a prerequisite to the right to keep and bear arms. I also don't see anything that says some racist redneck needs to pass a test before exercising his or her 1st Amendment rights. Ideally, people that own a firearm would at least take a gun safety course, like I did with my son (even though I had years of experience with guns) because he had expressed interest in shooting. But I'm not going to submit any constitutional right to someone's "test." Perhaps you are ok with the literacy tests the South placed on voters in the 60s?

[Starboard Tack]

21. Voting rights have nothing to do with so-called "gun rights"

Classic NRA bullshit.
Let me ask you, do you think you have a right to drive a car without a license?

I am not advocating a test btw. I was responding to ileus, who indicated that kids should begin training with guns at age 5.

[gejohnston]

22. didn't study the US Constitution very closely did you?

or read the Federalist Papers or anything by the founders did you? The Seventh Circuit ruled that undocumented immigrants have the individual right to own a gun. You can drive a car without a license all you want, just not on public roads.

Shooting is like any other sport or martial art. I'm willing to bet that if you took a poll of target shooters that make it to the Olympics or the World Cup, there is a chance they started that young. Would you be opposed to kids learning archery that young? Kendo? Fencing? If not, why not?

Also, isn't it illiberal or unprogressive to judge other cultures and sub cultures by the standards of your own?

[TeddyR]

24. I'm not familiar with the portion of the Constitution

That protects the right to drive. Point me to it and I'll be happy to discuss. And I'm not advocating for or against training with respect to firearms, though I certainly agree with the concept that people -- including younger people -- who are going to be around firearms should understand how a firearm works and the fact that they can be deadly if mishandled.

[virginia mountainman]

34. Your strawman is on fire...

1st off, a driver's license is a PRIVILEGE, not a right... Secondly, I, and my kids all started driving when we where around 10 years old, on private property...

Thirdly, if I own the car, licences or not, I can do with it what ever I want...on private property....

Owning a car, is not a privilege....DRIVING it on a public road is..

[Starboard Tack]

35. That is the problem

I agree that owning a gun should be a right, as should owning just about anything (few exceptions like owning slaves). Carrying a gun in public should never be a right, same as driving a car on public roads is not a right. We all have the right to own things. We all have the right to use those things on private property.
We all have the right to travel outside our homes.
We all have the right of self defense.
When we travel outside by car, we need a license. Otherwise we walk or bike or take public transportation.
Cars and guns are both potentially lethal objects. The first is necessary in modern society, the second is most definitely not. Yet you see the guns as trumping cars. I wonder which you would choose if you could only have one.
When we venture into the public domain, the rules change, and the use of many things is restricted. Guns, cars, drugs, alcohol, to name a few.
The only reason you say it is a right is because a RW SCOTUS has deemed it so, which defies reason.
Classic NRA BS.

[ileus]

19. What about voting?

Which is more dangerous to society....idiot with a gun, or uninformed idiot voting?


It's not really a right if you have to get approval from some agency.

[Starboard Tack]

20. So what was your point in telling us about your 5 year old with a gun?

Just showing what a great dad you are?

[gejohnston]

23. if it is part of teaching

concentration and self discipline, then yes.

[ileus]

25. Well that too I suppose...

That goofy girl just come into our living room with her brothers weights trying to emulate some girl 60 minutes just showed. Bad news is her football playing little brother has too much weight on the bar for her, and she almost dumped it onto our flatscreen. But enough of the family talk. (She wants to pitch softball in college)

My main point was everyone (male/female, young and old) needs a loving family member or friend that instructs them in the proper safe handling of firearms.

Well gotta go, the 60 mins Iraq Christian piece is coming on.


more later...

[branford]

2. Female firearm ownership is indeed rising.

However, if your implication in posting a story about a single female defendant in a firearm-related crime is that the rate of firearm crime or accidents perpetrated by woman is actually increasing, the story certainly makes no such supposition.

Nevertheless, if you care to provide reliable data that supports the conclusion that increasing female firearm ownership is linked to increasing gun crime or accidents, whether involving women or not, or that limiting women's access to firearms will actually lower the relevant rates, I, and I assume many others here on DU, would be more than happy to review your primary sources and engage in an actual discussion. Such a debate might be most illuminating.

Of course, we would then invariably need to discuss the issue of defensive uses of firearms by women, and whether such rate is increasing along with their increasing ownership (as well as the increasing use of firearms by women in sport, hunting and other lawful activities).

In fact, we could easily widen our discussion to include an analysis of the Obama administration's entire CDC-directed study, "Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence," that doesn't exactly provide support to much of the gun control agenda and highlights large rates of defensive firearm use, or even the Obama-administration's National Institute of Justice's, "Summary of Select Firearm Prevention Strategies," which basically demonstrated that virtually all recent gun control proposals are effectively worthless.

[Duckhunter935]

4. I hope

he is not saying that females are not smart enough to own firearms. I think they are and as with everybody go through a good gun safety course.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. See Post #6

[pablo_marmol]

3. What does the word risinig mean? NT

[Starboard Tack]

15. I'm not sure it means anything.

Looks like a whole new word. Did you make it up? Maybe we could discuss it in the language and linguistics group.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Cute little sexist dog whistle you got there.

Your usual MO is to post the title of article verbatim as the thread title with no personal commentary in the body of the OP. This time you post a personal commentary as the thread title with the article in order to conflate women owning guns with the killing of children.

What this thread needs is a good algaecide.

[Duckhunter935]

8. Nice catch

Sickening of him in my opinion

[beam me up scottie]

26. Results:

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Nice catch
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=175960

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Sickening of him" personal attack. Talk about the issues not he DUer

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 13, 2015, 08:57 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: For Fuck's Sake.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is an opinion, not a personal attack. Stop trying to use juries to punish DUers you don't like.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, please try making an argument rather tha holding a conversation about how terrible a person they are for holding an opinion (or making an observation) you don't care for.

I voted to leave it.

[Duckhunter935]

27. Thank you

Not surprised it was alerted on. Surprised it was to let stand as us firearms owners are usually outvoted on any jury.

[beam me up scottie]

28. Seriously?

This is Mr. Rogers' neighborhood compared to GD P.



I'm not a fan of shutting people up by jury.

[Duckhunter935]

29. Oh yes

About 6 months ago I had an alert stalker and had an apology hidden, lol

[beam me up scottie]

30. I did serve on a jury here a while back where a sarcastic post got hidden and shouldn't have.

I took the time to research the poster to make sure they were being sarcastic but I'm sure the alerter knew that others wouldn't.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=171483


Reminds me of the kind of people who lie on alerts in the atheist group out of spite, so I get it.

[Duckhunter935]

31. You can see it

In some of the jury comments.

[beam me up scottie]

32. I think that some believed the alerter and others just want to shut down the conversation.

In our group - atheists and agnostics - we always watch our backs, we put disclaimers on humourous posts that could get hidden by a dishonest alerter and unsuspecting jury.

And kudos to you for not banning more people, our hosts haven't had to block many but some people just don't know how to have an honest discussion or a civil disagreement.

It's easier to vilify your opponent I guess.

[Duckhunter935]

33. I tend to do that in some of my posts

Add a little explanation to the jury and eve post links or excerpts as required. Our host is good and the group takes pride in only two hides. They were well deserved too.

[pablo_marmol]

12. Good post indeed.

Funny how our team is so quick to denounce misogyny -- EXCEPT when it relates to women and guns.

"Women are every bit as capable as men. But if you give them a gun, it will be taken away and used against them."

"Give a woman a gun, and the result will be a dead child."

How utterly sickening. This type of post would result in a suspension, or a tombstone in any other forum. Glad it will stand as a reminder of how utterly disgusting, mindless and hypocritical The Controllers can be.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. another one for the can n/t

[Eleanors38]

10. Plop-plop, fizz-fizz, oh! what a relief it is.