Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumAnother case where the Second Amendment abolitionist were incorrect.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210829Kozak was a "men's rights" activist not an open carry activist. I abhor what he did. The abolitionist got their facts wrong again.
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My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)whether you call him a men's rights activist, an open carry activist, a boy scout or a red-assed baboon.
An unstable, violent dumpster fire of a human being was able to get and use a weapon for a bloody, deadly crime, and so far, no one has any ideas of how we can prevent these occurrences in the future.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)Alright -- but perhaps a really good first thought would not to do the wrong things. And to STOP LYING. Because doing the wrong things (and lying) only alienates the very people you'll need to assist in the cause of further reducing gun violence.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)Sometimes it's open carry advocates, sometimes it's not. Doesn't matter. No one has lifted a finger to stop these crimes because we have to stop talking about it and get our "terms" right before gun advocates will even deign to start a conversation. And according to gun advocates, the rest of us will never understand, hence we never have to talk about it.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)then you should take the lead. What campaigns or legislation should people who don't particularly care about guns,and really are sick of hearing about people getting shot, support?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Reform/abolish the war on drugs
Suicide intervention programs
Better mental healthcare
Focusing on the fact that most killers -- regardless of weapon employed -- have prior criminal histories
Open NICS to private transactions at no cost to seller or buyer
Federal reciprocity
Enhanced funding/enforcement of disqualified purchases
Start treating sellers and owners as allies in interdiction instead of enemies
Low-cost/free safety courses even in schools
At the expense of sounding presumptuous, I'll be bold enough to suggest that most if not all of my proposals would meet with approval or, at worst, minimal opposition from my fellow RKBA advocates.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)When pure culture war is allowed to steer the mentality of some people they will concoct, create, and make up b.s. for the purpose of attack. Do you want people like that in your midst? I don't. But some on DU behave like that daily; in fact, they relish that type of behavior to such an extent I wonder whose side they are really working for. So, b.s., untruths and crap WILL be called out. There is no excuse for it.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)It seems the media has identified this sick "eff" as both a "men's rights" and "open carry" nutjob
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/iowa-open-carry-nut-gunned-down-mall-worker-who-filed-sexual-harassment-complaints-against-him/
Iowa open-carry nut gunned down mall worker who filed sexual harassment complaints against him
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/14/1393260/-Open-Carry-advocate-guns-down-woman-who-complained-of-sexual-harassment
An Iowa mall cop — with a Facebook account loaded with open-carry and right-wing memes and photos of multiple weapons — is under arrest for shooting and killing a fellow mall worker because she filed sexual harassment complaints against him.
http://www.salon.com/2015/06/15/iowa_gun_nut_shoots_woman_to_death_after_she_files_sexual_harassment_complaint/
Iowa gun nut shoots woman to death after she files sexual harassment complaint
Shooter Alex Kozak's Facebook identified him as "a born free, gun toting, Constitution loving American"
Response to etherealtruth (Reply #6)
My Good Babushka This message was self-deleted by its author.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)is that people who are interested in guns can't be prevailed upon to care about gun crime or reasonable legislation to stem the tide of stupid, needless slaughter because people who aren't interested in guns never seem to use the magic words.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)To stem gun crimes. What do you think is reasonable legislation that would make a difference? I'm fine with universal background checks, for example, although I think they'll have a negligible impact.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)and you are in favor of universal background checks, then I'll take your word for it. I'll write in support of that. I think the first step would be to not only lift the ban on gun violence research but to fully fund it without reservations or weird restrictions. I'm fully in favor of establishing good science and taking the recommendations of the best researchers in the field.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)You mean someone who thinks that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, then yes I am a gun enthusiast.
With respect to the ban on gun violence research, my understanding is that there is no such ban, though I admit that isn't an issue I've focused on. I did a quick bit of Googling and this article from last year seems to indicate that to the extent there ever was a ban (and it doesn't appear there was a ban but only the CDC's interpretation) it is no longer in place - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/. Here's an excerpt:
The long stalemate continued until shortly after the December 2012 mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., when Obama announced several gun-control proposals, including reversing the CDC research ban. His higher-profile proposals – tightening firearm background checks, reinstating the assault weapons ban – were viewed as impossible to pass into law. Congress wouldn’t bite. But ending the CDC research ban? Done by executive order, it appeared to have the best shot, along with broad support from a scientific community upset that gun violence as a public health problem was being ignored.
“A lot of people thought it would make a big difference,” recalled Jeffrey Swanson, a Duke University psychiatry professor who studies gun violence and mental health.
But today the CDC still avoids gun-violence research, demonstrating what many see as the depth of its fear about returning to one of the country’s most divisive debates. The agency recently was asked by The Washington Post why it was still sitting on the sidelines of firearms studies. It declined to make an official available for an interview but responded with a statement noting it had commissioned an agenda of possible research goals but still lacked the dedicated funding to pursue it.
“It is possible for us to conduct firearm-related research within the context of our efforts to address youth violence, domestic violence, sexual violence, and suicide,” CDC spokeswoman Courtney Lenard wrote, “but our resources are very limited.”
But look, I'm not opposed to studying the root causes of gun violence. I think it would be helpful to better understand the issue so we can better craft meaningful policies.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)RKBA vs Activism. One group is open to free speech and discussion of ideas..........
It speaks loads about absolute power, diversity and tolerance.
"Gun Enthusiasts "; some people won't even recognize it as a civil right.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Extrapolating that we "can't be bothered to care" is a huge jump from "we aren't fond of trying to debate with people who can't be bothered to be knowledgeable about the subject matter and seem only to have the worst of intentions where 'we the people who don't commit gun violence and are therefore not part of the problem' are concerned.
I personally will be glad when anti-gun folks decide to try thinking outside the box, and actually accomplish something other than harassing the people that aren't the problem to begin with.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)I have not seen any gun enthusiasts ever solicit allies in passing any sort of resolutions or legislation to curb gun crimes. So point to one. I'll donate to the cause or write my legislator, or whatever.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Every time one of us supports a Democrat, we are working to solve the root causes of many many gun crimes, and it has nothing to do with gun control.
Reducing poverty, increasing equality, increasing opportunity, fixing the economy.
All those things attack and positively effect that which gun control can not.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)just a rude, toilet-mouthed response. kthxbai.
beevul
(12,194 posts)And now you're expecting 'magic words' from others whom people like you have done everything to antagonize, alienate, and attack?
Hypocrite much?
Why does it need to be gun related for you, huh?
"Fucking DUH" is hardly what I'd call toilet mouthed in this day and age, but whatever helps you ignore the bulk of what I actually wrote, I guess...
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)KTHXBAI
beevul
(12,194 posts)I said:
Every time one of us supports a Democrat, we are working to solve the root causes of many many gun crimes, and it has nothing to do with gun control.
Reducing poverty, increasing equality, increasing opportunity, fixing the economy.
All those things attack and positively effect that which gun control can not.
You responded by copping out and complaining that there was nothing anti-gun in the above.
You said:
And now you have, but you're ignoring it because it isn't 'gun control' enough for you.
In case you didn't know it, you're wearing no clothes, Emperor.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)being so prevalent, & to help get rid of illegal guns through attrition.
But then NY passed the safe act to register assault weapons and only like 5% complied.
350+million guns, 90 Million owners. And registration is extremely unpopular, so why pass unpopular laws that will be ignored by vast amounts of otherwise lawful people?
Especially when in places like Chicago, they WHO is responsible for 75-80% of gun crimes.
"In a city of 2.7 million people, about 1,400 are responsible for much of the violence"
Mr. Johnson said, and all of them are on what the department calls its Strategic Subject List.
So far this year, more than 70 percent of the people who have been shot in Chicago were on the list, according to the police, as were more than 80 percent of those arrested in connection with shootings.
“We are targeting the correct individuals,” Mr. Johnson said. “We just need our judicial partners and our state legislators to hold these people accountable.”
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)I have a ton of family in NY. They pointed out that two of three of the chief architects of that law have been "convicted " of corruption since that law was passed. The law was also passed without being allowed out for public comment.