Repealing Stand Your Ground is not about gun grabbing - it's about justice and the rule of law.

[jpak]

Castle laws are not about the "right to bear arms"

They allow people to get away with vigilante murder – period.

Burglary is not a capital crime - except in Texas.

Carrying a Box of Skittles While Black is not a capital crime - except in Florida.

Let the Douchebag GOP/NRA poutrage all they want about "gun rights" and vigilante laws.

They will lose this fight.

The Second Amendment does not give you the right to be judge, jury and executioner without legal penalty.

Fuck SGY.

yup

[CAPHAVOC]

1. Repeal the Patriot Act while you are at it.

[jpak]

7. That too

yup

[CAPHAVOC]

21. Sounds good to me then.

Can you add in DHS and TSA? I thought the Democrats were going to end all this crap. The war on terror turns out it should have been a law enforcement matter after all. Although I thought otherwise myself at the time. We should have let the FBI and CIA handle it. Boy was I ever wrong.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. what is SGY?

I guess you want to do away with Justifiable Homicide while you are it, right?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

3. Some folks...

...are just angry and unreasonable.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. I think we can conclude that was the cause of the typo --

Irate keyboarding often leads to typos.

[Ecumenist]

5. Doing away with SYG laws is NOT the same as doing away with Justifiable Homicide!

For hundreds of years, we have recognised that there are situations when one had to defende one's self with lethal force when the offender displayed a CLEAR AND DISTINCT intent to harm maim or kill for no good reason. These laws were enacted to fix sonething that WASN'T broken in the first place.
Now, sh!t is broken to the nth degree and this is a way for people to do away with someone that didn't like and by planning it well, GETTING AWAY WITH IT! This is what, in some cases, seems to be exactly what's happening.

[spin]

19. The same scenerio could happen under the old laws ...

if there were no witnesses.

An individual could claim that he tried to retreat from an encounter and unless there was evidence to prove that he was lying, he could walk.

I think the Trayvon Martin shooting will cause the law to be rewritten to remove any ambiguities and confusion that allow police, prosecutors or judges to avoid arresting an indivual in a case where there are serious questions about his use of self defense.

The basic concept of the law is, in my opinion, sound. There should be no reason to require an person to retreat who is being attacked or is just about to be attacked by a person who intends to put him in the hospital or six feet under and has the capability to do it.

Retreating or fleeing is always a viable option, but not always the best.

[eqfan592]

31. THIS! I think you hit the nail right on the head here.

Thanks again for yet another awesome post, spin.

[jpak]

8. Sorry - apples vs. Skittles

What happened in FL was NOT justifiable homicide.

What happened in Texas with Joe Horn was NOT justified homicide.

Those were both vigilante killings made legal by douchebag castle laws.

yup

[spin]

20. If you are refering to the Trayvon Martin shooting ...

when you say, "What happened in FL was NOT justifiable homicide", I would like to point out that an investigation is still being conducted and Zimmerman may well be arrested and prosecuted.

[S_B_Jackson]

41. Actually, in the case of Joe Horn

the Grand Jury heard two weeks of testimony and evidence and found that his actions WERE justifiable.

As for Zimmerman, whether his shooting of Trayvon Martin was justifiable has yet to be determined. I support a rigorous examination of the events that did take place, but neither you nor anyone else on this board has sufficient evidence to make a determination either pro or con.

Anyone who claims that they do is simply talking through his hat.
yup yup yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. So you think Castle Doctrine is legalized murder?

[jpak]

9. George Zimmerman and Joe Horn free, armed and can kill again

so, to answer your question...

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

27. The first responding officer on-scene testified the deceased in the Joe Horn incident

did indeed approach him, not flee.

The Zimmerman case isn't over by a damn sight.

[jpak]

28. Joe Horn went out of his house AFTER them with a shotgun and told the police dispatcher

he was going to shoot the alleged burglars in his NEIGHBOR'S yard.

They we shot in the back.

Vigilante Apologist Fail

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Eyewitness testimony and the grand jury disagree with you.

[eqfan592]

35. Exactly.

but hey, things like facts never have gotten in jpaks way before.

[jpak]

43. Police 911 tapes disagree with you and All White Juries are never wrong

yup

[AtheistCrusader]

46. I looked, but the best I could find was the grand jury makeup was sealed, and not know to the public

Do you have a source otherwise? I looked and did not find one.

[Common Sense Party]

44. How is the Zimmerman case an example of Castle Doctrine?

In what castle was George Zimmerman?

[doc03]

10. People got off for justifiable homicide for 100s of years

Was there ever any problem if you killed and armed intruder in your home? Now if anyone attempts entering your home or automobile without permission you can presume he is armed and shoot him. The burden of proof is on the dead victim. The SYG law is the Castle Doctrine on steroids you can just gun down anyone anywhere if you feel threatened, it's crazy.

[jpak]

12. Racial profiling, hunting down unarmed black kids and shooting them is NOT justifable homicide

yup

[Oneka]

25. " The burden of proof is on the dead victim"

Not so. The burden of proof is on the STATE, as it should be. That burden has never been on the victim.

[doc03]

37. That's not true in Ohio from what I was told in the CCW class. Say if you confront someone in your

home or occupied vehicle uninvited you can assume he is a threat and shoot him and the burden of proof is on the victim to prove otherwise. The homeowner is presumed innocent and it is up to the victim to prove otherwise. If you can assume the person is armed if he is in your home the only way I could see you being charged is if somehow the victim could prove you invited him inside. I don't think the SYG should even apply in the Trayvon Martin case though because Zimmerman was the aggressor. I think everyone knows if the kid was white and a black man gunned him down how it would have turned out. The SYG law is just crazy, it's like in Dodge City when an outlaw would gun someone down in cold blood and his gang claimed the other guy drew first he walked away.

[gejohnston]

39. that would stand to reason if it were a civil case

but in a criminal case, it is up to the State.

I don't think the SYG should even apply in the Trayvon Martin case though because Zimmerman was the aggressor.

the guy who wrote the law agrees with you, and us.

I think everyone knows if the kid was white and a black man gunned him down how it would have turned out.

If the black guy had a rich daddy who gave to the DA's campaign, I see the same thing happening. The lack of outrage would be the only difference. Just like lost kids. Cute rich or upper middle class white girl, all over the news. Black girl or over weight white kid from a trailer park, no satellite trucks to be found.

The SYG law is just crazy, it's like in Dodge City when an outlaw would gun someone down in cold blood and his gang claimed the other guy drew first he walked away.

Don't know much about history do you?
http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/weblect/lec03/03_05.htm

[doc03]

40. I am talking the TV depiction of Dodge City from the Gunsmoke series n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Aaaand a hollywood portrayal of a sphagetti western is relevant how?

[rrneck]

11. Your pom poms are getting a little frayed.

This OP has all the intellectual sophistication and nuance of a concrete block.

But it's a brilliant performance piece revealing what's wrong with our political process. Very insightful.

Bravo.

[jpak]

13. I see lots of pom poms here cheering for GOP castle laws and GOP guns-everywhere-all-the-time laws

and cheer leading for George Zimmerman

The lack of intellectual sophistication is apparent in that crowd.

yup

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. you need to go get your eyes checked, then.

your glasses need a new perscription.

[jpak]

16. The Florida Stand Your Ground Law was passed by a GOP legislature and signed by JEB

Your glasses are out of date and rose colored

yup

[gejohnston]

17. So?

Florida's open carry ban was passed by a bunch of racists in 1893, but you don't support its repeal. The Miller Act (banning sending small handguns through the mail) was passed by a GOP congress and signed by Warren Harding, do you support its repeal?
The Gun Control Act of 1968 was sponsored by a "toter" who carried illegally in DC because he was afraid of hippies.
New York's licensing law was sponsored by and named after a gangster.

[jpak]

18. SYG sucks - spin and dissemble on

yup

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

24. spin and dissemble on

Occasionally I read something that can't be characterized by either or both of those words, in one of your posts. After I recover I usually assume that it was meant as sarcasm.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

32. I don't live in Florida and I don't need glasses but, thanks for caring.

yup.

[rrneck]

15. Then point it out intellegenty.

If you can.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

23. I guess...

...we're going to have to pass some DEM castle laws so the rest of us are protected as well as the GOP is.

And I have seen quite a lot of cheering for Zimmerman.

[S_B_Jackson]

42. You are aware that the section of the Texas Penal Code that related to the use of deadly force

to protect the property of third parties was codified (mainly) in 1973 and was done so by a Democratic State House, a Democratic State Senate, and signed into law by a Democratic governor, right?

[oneshooter]

45. He/she/it chooses to ignore that fact(along with many others)

because he doesn't want to say that they ................... and are................................. in print.

[krispos42]

22. Killing in self-defense = vigilante murder.

Gotcha.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. only in "DU Gun Control & RKBA Group" (hows that for a mouthful?) where day is night and

black is white.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. I love your over-use of the term 'period' as if that settles anything.

Here's your solution. :http://www.democraticunderground.com/101487941

The law is fine. The assholes implementing it are the problem.
Any law, however benign, can be perverted by nefarious jerks.

[rl6214]

29. The only ones going on about vigilante justice are the anti-gun zealots like you and

your heroes in the new black panther party.

[ileus]

30. God Bless SYG....YUP

Hopefully the grabbers will lose this fight....we've made too much progress to turn back to the dark ages now. We've got many miles to go before the 2A is fully restored.

[Lizzie Poppet]

36. Trololololo

Your shtick's getting really tired...

&feature=related

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Meanwhile, SIX NRA backed bills were signed into law yesterday.

Looks like the NRA is winning. Has any state with SYG or Castle Doctrine seen a bill introduced to repeal them? Looks like you are counting your chickens before any eggs are even laid.

[Remmah2]

49. No burglary, no shooting, no problem.

When everybody respects everybody elses space no problem.

[slackmaster]

50. I don' believe George Zimmerman's defense will be based on SYG.