US man shot ex-wife's British husband in front of children (claimed self defense)

[alp227]

Last edited Sun Aug 5, 2012, 03:25 PM - Edit history (1)

A man has been convicted of shooting his ex-wife's British husband in front of her children.

Cristobal Palacio's 10-year-old daughter told jurors in the US that he had "smiled" as he shot 42-year-old Paul Winter, from Tunbridge Wells, Kent, in October 2008, according to the Miami Herald.

Winter died in front of his wife, Jennifer, and her twins, who were six years old at the time, after being shot six times, including twice in the back, at Palacio's home in Kendall, Miami, Florida, the paper said.

Palacio denied murder, claiming he had shot Winter in self-defence, and told the jury sitting at Miami's Gerstein Justice Building that the graphic designer had threatened him with a gun on two occasions.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/04/us-man-shot-husband-children

I wonder how many murderers in Florida besides Palacio and George Zimmerman have used the "stand your ground" defense?

(reposted from LBN, thread locked over there but replies are at http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014185335)

[hack89]

1. How come your link never mentions SYG?

you do understand that self defense encompasses more than SYG?

[alp227]

2. Well, it's a "self-defense" defense in Florida. I thought SYG was a synonym for self defense.

[rDigital]

3. Its' not.

[gejohnston]

4. no, it is not.

SYG is simply the opposite of duty to retreat. So far, Zimmerman is not using SYG, unless I missed the immunity hearing. According to his story, his shooting would have been justified under Duty to Retreat (that is his version, that isn't to say I believe or disbelieve his story.)

[hack89]

5. No - Florida self defense laws have been around for decades

SYG simply extends those laws to a new location: public places. I don't think this shooting took place in a public location.

Florida self defense laws, as applicable in this case, are pretty much identical as those in every state in the union.

[MotherPetrie]

6. So if both perps have guns, NOBODY is safe. Gawd, I HATE guns and gun culture. It is insane.

[gejohnston]

7. perps are not gun culture

perps are usually gang or drug culture, but not gun culture.

[Starboard Tack]

8. Perps are perpetrators of crimes, regardless of "culture".

Some gangs are armed and some of those wear uniforms. Most people in the "drug" culture do not own guns. Pot smokers tend to be among the most peaceful, non-violent members of society. Meth heads are a whole other ball of wax.

[gejohnston]

9. pot smokers among the most peaceful?

some folks in Tucson would disagree with that. Too bad JL didn't smoke enough that day. Most pot heads I have known are nothing like the ones you describe. Some are violent, some peaceful.

and where do the pot smokers get their stuff from? US growers are Republicans in tie dye, afraid legalization would cut into their profits and they would have to start paying taxes. But, a lot of weed still comes from Mexico. Then there is the whole distribution system, controlled by gangs, and how do those gangs deal with business disputes and employee theft? You seriously think the gangsters are mostly "non smokers"?

[Starboard Tack]

10. I said "tend to be", not exclusively.

Where does the oil you put in your car come from? There's plenty home grown pot in this country and we could supply plenty for export. Don't blame pot smokers on fucked up political culture wars. I know very few people who don't smoke pot occasionally. It is as common as wine drinking in California and far more common than cigarette smoking. Why buy Mexican garbage when you can find the finest in any dispensary in California, Colorado and several other states. I only know 2 pot smokers who own handguns and both are Republicans and both live in Texas.
Loughner was psycho, regardless of pot, which probably had less influence on his actions than the brand of toothpaste he uses.

[gejohnston]

11. most of the oil comes from Canada and Mexico

but oil fielders are not chopping people up with machetes and machine gunning people for shits and grins. Well shit, why don't they export? There is still a big enough market for Mexican
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126978142
My point is that all economies are demand based. The buyer contributes and has blood on their hands as much as the politicians and the prison industry that profits from prohibition. Same goes for beer drinkers in the 1920s. Now, if yours is certified violence free.......................................

[Starboard Tack]

16. Mexico tends to be rather crude when it comes to business competition, I agree.

Has no more to do with the consumer than buying the products of those who use child labor, pollute the environment or exploit the land, air and sea in the name of corporate profit.
Oil fielders work for the most destructive corporations on the planet, who destroy the environment with virtual impunity. It's a faustian deal, same as the handgun industry. We all sell a little bit of our souls daily. Question is, how much can we afford?

[gejohnston]

17. the difference is

the guy who drives his car to work is aware of his contribution and doesn't scapegoat others. I bike and walk as much as possible.
the pot and coke head isn't aware, or chooses not to be, of their contribution to gang and gun violence. At best they are oblivious. At worst, they scapegoat hunters and target shooters that have nothing to do with the problem. Mexican gangs are not unique. Russian and Jamaican gangs in the US and UK are not exactly prone to going to court either.
As James Wright put it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=58036

The perfect example was the nut in Toronto:
his HK pistol used magazines that were not legal in Canada, he did not have a Restricted PAL (or any PAL for that matter), which means he did not buy it at a gun store, gun show, online, or any other legal means. The mayor's idea? Let's confiscate registered guns from PAL holders.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. You can't uninvent them and they are easy to make.

If you have the knowledge you can buy the tools you need at any Home Depot and make guns from scratch. Ammo too. A ery simple shotgun can be made from two pieces of pipe, a ball bearing, an end cap, and some super glue. Perps will always find ways to get guns.

The law-abidig gun owners rarely (Rarely does NOT mean never.) misuse their guns and sometimes use them to defend themselves.

[slackmaster]

14. Nobody is forcing you to buy a gun, or to allow them in your home.

[slackmaster]

13. He was convicted. It doesn't matter what kind of defense he put up.

It failed.

[ileus]

15. Where is the SYG claim?

[4th law of robotics]

18. It was invented by the OP

and it appears this guy was convicted so his interpretation of the law may be a bit . . . off.