U.S. Guns, The Awful, Shocking Truth

[SecularMotion]

The tragedy in Colorado demonstrated the devastating lethality of AR-15 type guns, like the one used in the Aurora shooting, and has caused many to question whether it makes sense to allow the purchase of military-style assault rifles. What a lot of people don't know is that these rifles are also the weapons of choice among ruthless Mexican drug cartels. In the last 6 years, over 60,000 people have lost their lives in Mexico's wave of violence.

The failure of the United States to enact meaningful gun regulation is not only affecting the United States; it is also fueling violence in Mexico. Among the victims are countless innocent bystanders, journalists, and children. The brutal truth is this--the AR-15s and many other guns used by drug lords, gangs, and kidnappers come from the United States.

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), more than 70 percent of the weapons seized in Mexico in the last three years and submitted for tracing came from the United States.

How do these weapons end up in the hands of Mexico's brutal drug lords? Look at the video on gun trafficking produced by WOLA and Cuentame and embedded here.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Video-U-S-Guns-The-Awf-by-Cuentame-Latino-120807-188.html

[GreenStormCloud]

1. You can't buy full-auto in the U.S

Most of the cartel's assault weapons are cold-war leftovers from Central America, or smuggled in from China, North Korea, or Africa. You can buy a full0auto AK-47 for under $100 in Africa. Why would a cartel member pay hundreds of dollars for a semi-auto only clone when he can get the real thing for under a hundred?

Further, 70% of those seized and submitted for tracing is NOT the same as 70% of those seized. Most guns seized are not submitted to the U.S. for tracing because the Mexican already know that the gun came from someplace else. A real full-auto AK definately didn't come from the U.S.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

5. Correction: You can buy full auto in the US... but it is highly regulated and $$$.

Literally, you will pay $15,000-$20,000 for a single AK47, $6000-$9000 for an Uzi, or $12,000-$15,000 for an M16) in the united states and wait 4-6 months for the paperwork and background checks to be completed by the ATF. Full autos available to citizens in the US are ungodly expensive and highly regulated.

Moral of the story: Full autos in the hands of the cartel don't come from US gun stores or gun shows.

[Starboard Tack]

34. Nice to know it's all about money.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. What else whould be about?

I mean... was congress just supposed to "ban and confiscate" them?

Back in the 30's, they realized the 2A made all out bans a constitutionally-risky subject. So they made everyone register them with a $200 tax fee. This was more or less a defacto ban because (in 1932) $200 was a prohibitive amount of of money. In 1986, when $200 was more trivial when compared to the price of the gun, the Hughes Amendment ceased civillian additions to the Full Auto registration list... so basically only the ones that were already in the public and on the list were fair game to buy & sell.

The high price of full auto guns (ie: $3000 for a shitty $250 stamped sheet metal MAC-11 SMG) comes about because of the limited supply. Because new ones cannot be bought, only used ones exist and they become a collector's item. Like rare trading-cards for the gun crowd.

[slackmaster]

2. "...and submitted for tracing..."

We've seen this bullshit before.

[TPaine7]

30. Of the men typing at my keyboard, 100% are me! That must be significant, somehow. n/t

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. Extremely misleading statistic (re: 70% of mexican guns come from US)

Please re-read the talking point: "According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), more than 70 percent of the weapons seized in Mexico in the last three years and submitted for tracing came from the United States."

Keep in mind that ALL guns manufactured or imported in the US for civilian or government sale are marked with a manufacturing or import point of origin, caliber, unique serial number, and (if necessary) "Govt Use Only" restrictions. EVERY SINGLE ONE for nearly the last 50 years has this info stamped on it.

Ask yourself: Does the Mexican government submit ALL seized guns to the American BATFE for tracing... or just the guns that have clear US manufacturing stamps and serial numbers? Do you think they submit obviously foreign manufactured or unidentified origin firearms? Do you think they submit the firearms that were victims of theft or bribery from mexican armed forces?

It's all politics. The obvious answer is that, NO... the Mexican government does not submit everything for testing. What they do submit... they alrady have a good idea came from the US. Why would they submit items that they know the US would have absolutely no record? Looking at some of the hardware seized from the cartel in these "photo-ops" of successful Mexican gun/drug busts, you'll see true military grade shit. Crew serviced MGs, REAL AKs and M16s, grenades, launchers, mortars, etc... this kind of shit is simply not available at US gun shows, over-the-counter gun stores, or private sale. Even in the US, alot of the confiscated items laid out for show and tell are highly controlled and regulated.

Do some US guns make their way south? Of course... probably quite a few, in fact. But as a poster indicated above, Why would the cartels go through alot of trouble to smuggle numerous $600-$1000 apiece civilian semi-auto guns though a policed northern border when cheap real-deal full-auto military AKs, FNs, & ARs can be brought nearly unchecked across the southern border from numerous banana republics.

IMO, Mexico is doing what nearly every gold-digging scumbag ambulance-chaser American does when it feels wronged... going after the guys with the deepest pockets regardless of true culpability.

[4th law of robotics]

10. I'm curious how many of those made in America guns were sold to the Mexican military/police

and then 'fell off a truck'.

[aikoaiko]

4. The claim use to be 90% of those submitted for tracing were from US -- we're improving nicely

Thank you for posting because it should progress can be made without reauthorizing an AWB.


:ROFL:

[gejohnston]

6. some news organizations can't be taken seriously based on the names

like Pajama or Oped. Oped is short of opinion editorial, which is not news.

[Hoyt]

7. Sadly, our gun culture cares little about the indirect effects of their need for more and more guns.

As long as an American gun lover can get another gun to add to their collection/cache, that is all that matters -- the heck with Mexico and anyone else.

[DonP]

11. Replace the word "Gun" with "Drugs" and you might have a point

[Hoyt]

29. You are right, we need to relax drug laws and restrict guns severely.

[4th law of robotics]

20. Why is Canada not suffering the same fate?

It's only the guns right? Canada shares a vast mostly open border with the US. Why aren't they mired in gun-violence?

[Hoyt]

21. Simply put - Canadians aren't into buying, hoarding, carrying guns prized by "cold blooded killers."

[4th law of robotics]

22. Ah so it's culture, not gun availability and proximity to US gun-shows

[Hoyt]

23. US gun shows do most of their damage here.

[4th law of robotics]

24. Not really

either way as you already accidentally admitted, it's not the guns.

Whoops. Bet you didn't think you'd spill that today did you?

[Hoyt]

26. Lax gun laws enable, and in fact spur, some folks to do bad things.

[gejohnston]

27. so how do you explain Mexico

and half of the countries in the world?

[4th law of robotics]

28. So we should enact stricter laws, like Mexico

That way we would be safe. Like Mexico.

[ileus]

8. Do people still buy this lie? ID10TS...

[4th law of robotics]

9. So sharing a long open border with the gun-happy US is the cause of all that violence?

What are Canada's crime stats like?

Must be comparable. Since you know, they share a large open border with the US. And that's the only factor at play.

[rDigital]

13. By the OP's logic, Canada should be a bloodbath.

[rl6214]

12. You sure are good at copy and post opinion pieces.

Got anything original to add? Anything with any facts? I thought not.

[SecularMotion]

14. You sure are good at disrupting threads.

Seems to be your only purpose here.

[ManiacJoe]

15. He was just pointing out your bad posting behavior.

Instead of doing the drive-by posting, you could have included some comments to start the conversation, like an indication as to what you thought was interesting about the article you thought was worth posting. But instead, you left us to guess about your reasons.

[SecularMotion]

16. It's a news item that concerns US gun policy.

If you don't have a comment to add on the item, don't post one.

The only bad behavior here is you disrupting the thread.

[ManiacJoe]

17. You have an odd definition of disrupting.

You posted the article for others to read, but cannot come up with a comment about what you thought was interesting about the article? That suggests you did not find the article useful and just wasted our and your time by posting it.

[SecularMotion]

18. "Thread Disrupting" is posting off-topic comments in order to steer the discussion away from the OP

If you don't have a comment to make about the article, then don't disrupt the thread.

[ManiacJoe]

19. Penalty for not actually starting the conversation!

$5 says you will not learn from this lesson.

[Hoyt]

25. What have you learned of benefit to society from Colorado shooting?

[tortoise1956]

31. I've been reminded, again,

that violent, criminally insane psychopaths will do whatever they can to hurt others.

As far as guns, I seem to recall that 800,000 Tutsis were killed in Rwanda in 1994, most of them by machete. In Israel, Afghanistan, Chechnya and Yemen, suicide bombers are killing with explosives, most of them IEDs.

The Colorado tragedy is not an indictment of guns. Rather it's an indictment of the society that not only produces scum like that, but actually provides them with a stage where they can preen and strut in front of everyone. Stop sensationalizing these murderous bastards!

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

36. Whe going to popular movies: wear a bulletproof vest under my shirt and carry a gun.

[HALO141]

39. If called upon to stand and deliver

the average citizen will be found tragically wanting.

[rl6214]

38. If you don't have a comment to make about the article, then don't start the thread.

Fixed it for you.

[SecularMotion]

40. If it bothers you so much, please put me on ignore or don't click on my threads

You're becoming a serial disruptor.

[rl6214]

41. Oh no, much to fun to watch you spit and sputter

[HALO141]

33. It's opinion, not news.

Please try to learn the difference.

[Simo 1939_1940]

32. Drive-by posts.

Seems to be your only purpose here.

[rl6214]

37. How can it be disrupting your thread, when you made no comments

There's no discussion started by you therefore nothing to disrupt.