U.S. gun industry appeals new rifle reporting rules

[ellisonz]

Reuters – Mon, Jan 16, 2012

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The gun industry on Monday appealed a U.S. judge's decision to uphold new Obama administration regulations requiring gun dealers in four states bordering Mexico to report the sales of multiple semi-automatic rifles.

Judge Rosemary Collyer of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled on Friday the reporting requirements ordered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) last year were sufficiently narrowly tailored.

Because the reporting demand "was limited to only certain sales of certain guns in certain states, ATF did not exceed its authority," she wrote in a 21-page ruling.

Gun dealers backed by the National Rifle Association, a powerful lobbying group, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, challenged the requirements, arguing they would effectively require national registration of firearms sales, which they said the ATF was not authorized to do.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-gun-industry-appeals-rifle-reporting-rules-001447763.html

This could get interesting...Go ATF!!!

[ManiacJoe]

1. I see this reg getting tossed fairly quickly.

One of the legal problem(s) is that the reg does not apply to everyone, just a select few states. The easy fix is to apply the new reg to all dealers in all states.

[ileus]

2. Next up any interior state that has drugs routes from Mexico.

[E6-B]

3. It is a really really bad idea for law enforcement to be writing the laws they will enforce.

[pipoman]

4. Technically, it isn't a law

it is a regulation of licensure, on the same level as the requirement on FFLs to maintain a safe, or to keep transfer information.

[E6-B]

8. Do FFLs go to jail if the don't do this?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. IMO...

...since this is a regulation and not a law, they wouldn't have a criminal prosecution to contend with, just a loss of license and the means to earn a living.

[pipoman]

13. Most licensed profession

some of the licensing regulations are in place to make sure the licensee knows that this act or that is a violation of license law and possibly criminal law. An example would be selling a gun to a disqualified buyer. It is a violation of license regulations, it is also a federal crime.

I doubt that failure to report multiple weapons is an actual crime yet...it may be an equal treatment issue since it doesn't apply to all dealers..

[E6-B]

14. IMO you will probably see an ATF raid with tanks and helicopters.

The ATF is not known for doing this with temperance and fairness.

[krispos42]

5. Why not have them in the states that border Canada, too?

Washington, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine?

[slackmaster]

6. Institutional racism.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

18. Comparison

...is illogical.

It assumes demand for American guns is the same in Canada and Mexico.

It is not.

PS -- Commerce Clause allows for the regulation of guns.

[gejohnston]

19. guns are regulated

on the federal level since 1927, but intra state sales between two individuals would probably violate the Commerce Clause.

[krispos42]

20. I'm told that smuggled US guns into Canada is a problem as well.

Particularly handguns. So... why aren't we doing something similar in the northern state?


P.S. I never said it didn't.

[montanto]

7. So, are we to take it that

you support laws that are designed to unfairly scrutinize one group over another? There is already a box to check on applications if you are Latino, a resident alien, etc., which earn you extra scrutiny. Now we need to spend more taxpayer money on looking into people who purchase more than one semi-automatic rifle (or even a rifle receiver, which isn't a complete rifle) even though they may be law abiding U.S. citizens, even though they may live hundreds of miles from the border? (California is a very long state. I'm sure there are people in NorCal with Latino names who have never even seen the border.) Go ATF indeed! How does the ATF get to regulate four states and not the others? What the ATF ought to do is endeavor not to arrange arms sales to criminals and leave the law abiding citizens alone.

[ellisonz]

10. "you support laws that are designed to unfairly scrutinize one group over another?"

That's the Ron Paul argument against the Voting Rights Act. I'd like to see it be the policy nationwide, but it's necessary for a compelling law enforcement reason.

[Straw Man]

11. And your argument...

That's the Ron Paul argument against the Voting Rights Act. I'd like to see it be the policy nationwide, but it's necessary for a compelling law enforcement reason.

... is the one that is used to support racial profiling.

[ellisonz]

12. What the heck are you talking about?

That's not the same thing as racial profiling by police, not at all. That's nothing like my argument that there can be a compelling governmental reason for the Federal government to apply different regulatory policies to different states. Are you agreeing with Ron Paul that the Voting Rights Act is unconstitutional or are you not?

[Straw Man]

22. I'm talking about discriminatory policies ...

... whether against states or individuals.

That's not the same thing as racial profiling by police, not at all. That's nothing like my argument that there can be a compelling governmental reason for the Federal government to apply different regulatory policies to different states.

"Compelling governmental reason" doesn't excuse it. That's just an excuse for abuse.

And no, I don't agree with Ron Paul about the Voting Rights Act, which applies equally to all 50 states.

[ellisonz]

23. "I don't agree with Ron Paul about the Voting Rights Act, which applies equally to all 50 states."

[Straw Man]

24. What you're talking about there is selective enforcement.

The Voting Rights Act's prohibition against discriminatory policies is universal.

On the other hand, the ATF is imposing, by administrative fiat, a legal requirement on four states that does not apply to 46 others. If they made the reporting requirement universal, the situation would be analogous. Instead, they prefer to divide and conquer.

[ellisonz]

25. In other words, selective enforcement...

Gun lobby is such a baby.

[Straw Man]

26. I don't think you understood me.

Selective enforcement and selective regulation are two entirely different animals. Selective enforcement at least has the justification of efficiency with limited resources. Laws and regulations that don't apply equally to all geographic and demographic entities are inherently discriminatory.

[ellisonz]

27. No I understood you very well...

"Laws and regulations that don't apply equally to all geographic and demographic entities are inherently discriminatory."

That's the Ron Paul/Rick Perry/Nikki Haley position that the Federal Government is something that targets only a few of the states, that it is somehow at war with those states. This is nonsense, there is nothing that says the Federal government cannot discriminate on such a basis.

[Straw Man]

28. No. You didn't. You really didn't.

The Ron Paul argument is that selective enforcement, as in the Voting Rights Act, is inherently discriminatory. I disagree. Selective enforcement of a law/regulation that applies to everyone is arguably excusable in the interest of efficiency.

What is not excusable is legislation/regulation that applies to certain regions or demographic groups and not others. This is practically a textbook definition of discrimination.

(A) Federal law is the law of the land; in the interest of efficiency, it may be enforced more actively in those areas where it is mostly flagrantly being violated.

(B) The Federal government may make laws that apply to certain regions or demographic groups and not to others; something may be required of Arizonans or New Mexicans that is not required of New Yorkers or Coloradans.

Scenario (A) is acceptable to me. Scenario (B) is not.

Got it?

[Pacafishmate]

15. If there's one government agency that needs to be disbanded, it's the ATF.

[ellisonz]

16. Why?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

17. Go ATF

.

[Atypical Liberal]

21. More racist gun control.

Can't have those brown people buying firearms, eh?