CIA or FBI?

[valerief]

I hope someone can answer this for me.

I have a story set in 1961. A subplot involves a U.S. agent who goes to Mexico, because he suspects he'll find an elusive German spy who spied on the Allies during WWII. This spy is an American, and he wants to arrest her. Or detain her so she'll be arrested.

Would the agent be FBI or CIA? FBI is domestic but they're enforcement. CIA is international but they're intelligence.

Please don't tell me I'm stupid for not knowing this. I know I'm stupid. Thanks.

[monkeyofstick]

1. ummmm

CIA..

[valerief]

2. You pulled that out of your monkey stick just now, right?

[monkeyofstick]

3. The CIA was huge in Iran

[link:https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/history-of-the-cia|


http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/

They were busy that year..Bay Of Pig's and all.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-bay-of-pigs-invasion-begins

[monkeyofstick]

4. lol monkeyofstick is my native name

The CIA
Reseach
Operation Paperclip

https://qrobe.it/search/?q=cia+history+operation+paperclip

[valerief]

5. Thanks! I knew this was the right group to ask. nt

[jwirr]

6. I think it would be CIA as set in those days the FBI was not allowed to work outside the country.

[valerief]

7. Thanks. I just didn't think the CIA had the power to arrest.

on edit
According to this, they can't arrest.

Myth: The CIA arrests people who break the law.
Reality: The CIA, unlike the FBI, has no law enforcement authority. The Agency’s mission is foreign intelligence collection and analysis. If you have a law enforcement issue, contact your local police department or the US Department of Justice.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/myths-vs-real-cia.html

[valerief]

8. I think I have it. Almost.

Per this page:
http://criminal.lawyers.com/criminal-law-basics/federal-protectors-roles-of-the-cia-and-the-fbi.html

The agent will be CIA. He'll ID the spy in Mexico.
The FBI will have to make the arrest.
However, I don't know the legal mechanics of holding/arresting the spy in Mexico. But, since this isn't a main part of the story, I might not need to.

on edit:
Looks like the FBI can arrest on foreign soil.

What authority do FBI special agents have to make arrests in the United States, its territories, or on foreign soil?

In the U.S. and its territories, FBI special agents may make arrests for any federal offense committed in their presence or when they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed, or is committing, a felony violation of U.S. laws. On foreign soil, FBI special agents generally do not have authority to make arrests except in certain cases where, with the consent of the host country, Congress has granted the FBI extraterritorial jurisdiction.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs

[monkeyofstick]

9. Great lit from that era:Norman Mailer

Try taking a look at
Norman Mailer
[link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlot%27s_Ghost|

He had folks in his family that worked for the FBI-and CIA

http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-394-58832-2

He was a great writer,but you could outdo him

[valerief]

10. Ha, I couldn't outdo Doctor Seuss! Thanks. nt

[leveymg]

11. The FBI did Nazi hunting in MX, but lost most of its budget and manpower in Latin Amer after WWII

Last edited Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Nonetheless, the Bureau has maintained Legats stationed in Mexico City and most capitals around the world. Arrests are usually carried out by local authorities.

[valerief]

12. Local authorities, huh? Okay. Thanks. So the CIA agent IDs the spy and

has the local authorities arrest/detain her. She's then brought to a Legat (in Mexico City) and the FBI arrest her and bring her back to the U.S. for a spy trial (or whatever is done; I won't need to get that far).

Thanks. Didn't know what a Legat was until you mentioned it and I looked it up.

on edit:
I don't have to get too technical, because this isn't a spy novel. I just want to get the general agencies right.

[leveymg]

15. That sounds about right. The real problem with that scenario is that

Last edited Sat Apr 11, 2015, 11:15 AM - Edit history (5)

in 1960 the CIA wasn't in the business of chasing Nazis. The Agency was much more interested in planning the Bay of Pigs at that point. More likely, if a German national had something of value to the US, the Agency would approach the individual and possibly retain him as a contract agent. Someone mentioned Operation Paperclip and the Ratlines. You should also look up Condor, which involved the CIA's management of Nazis and Rightwingers throughout Latin America, although that program is best known for coups starting in Brazil in 1964 and went on through the Chile overthrow in 1973. See also Klaus Barbie. A 2010 article in the NYT links to a 600 page Justice Dept. report on protection of former Nazis by US intelligence. See, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14nazis.html

Furthermore, the FBI was also in the game of recruiting and protecting some Nazis. Eric Lichtblau wrote a book about this that is referenced here: http://forward.com/articles/209167/inside-the-fbis-shameful-battle-to-shield-nazis/?p=all; see, related, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/us/in-cold-war-us-spy-agencies-used-1000-nazis.html?_r=0

Also, an old Nazi would be unlikely to be hiding out in Mexico. More likely, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay or Uruguay, which all had large German communities and Rightist governments at the time.

While the FBI lost most of its Latin America operations and wartime budget during the Truman Administration, it continued to operate abroad on a reduced scale. The CIA really did not have a comparable mission to ferret out Nazis abroad to that held by the FBI during World War Two.

The Office of Special Investigations in the DOJ was formed in 1979 and it has since chased down a few remaining Nazis.

[bemildred]

13. What rules there are, or were, about this are more guidelines, that is they do what they want.

It's more about turf wars than any pragmatic necessity anyway. "You get the foreigners and we get the legal citizens" kind of thing. And also the fiction that we still give a shit about political rights and all those little amendments at the end of the Constitution.

You can do whatever you want with the story I think, I've seen the "nameless government agency" approach work fine too, that is leave it ambiguous, and in Mexico it is pretty ambiguous anyway.

[valerief]

16. You know, I think I may just do "U.S. agent." He'll use the local authorities

to detain the spy.

The story isn't about a spy but about a maid involved in identity theft circa 1961.

Thanks.

[Sienna86]

14. The FBI

Has a legal attaché in Mexico City, so perhaps the agent coordinates with Mexican authorities and
travels to Mexico in coordination with Mexican authorities.