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question everything

(47,468 posts)
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 05:07 PM Dec 2020

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (question everything) on Tue Dec 8, 2020, 10:48 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) question everything Dec 2020 OP
Be careful who you trust keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author question everything Dec 2020 #15
Not negatively..... caution keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #17
can your nursing home 'own' you? keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #2
The Elderly as a Source of Profit keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #3
Complaints on rise of nursing homes forcing out residents keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #4
As Nursing Homes Shift Focus To Short-Term Rehab Care, keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #5
The shameful problem of elder financial abuse is only going to get worse. keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #6
Abuse Plagues System of Legal Guardians for Adults keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #7
comments from various articles: keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #8
How the Elderly Lose Their Rights keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #9
seniors social isolation loneliness purpose - target for scammers keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #10
Grandfather's Wooden Bowl- keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #11
A vast change in lifestyle keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #12
Social isolation can make one a scammer's target. keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #13
And now something cheery... keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author question everything Dec 2020 #16
Your negativity is noted. keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #19
Duplicate post. Cancelled keithbvadu2 Dec 2020 #18

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
1. Be careful who you trust
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:05 PM
Dec 2020

Caretakers cheat/rob vulnerable seniors

Miserable SOBs

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wwii-veteran-life-savings-stolen_us_57e1b0abe4b0e80b1b9ee159?section=&

Fugitive Caretakers Allegedly Steal WWII Veteran’s Life Savings

Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #1)

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
17. Not negatively..... caution
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 10:47 PM
Dec 2020

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
2. can your nursing home 'own' you?
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:10 PM
Dec 2020

can your nursing home 'own' you?

does anyone think that the nursing home is interested in the welfare of the patient or the welfare of the patient's money?

------------------

But one day last summer, after he disputed nursing home bills that had suddenly doubled Mrs. Palermo’s copays, and complained about inexperienced employees who dropped his wife on the floor, Mr. Palermo was shocked to find a six-page legal document waiting on her bed.

It was a guardianship petition filed by the nursing home, Mary Manning Walsh, asking the court to give a stranger full legal power over Mrs. Palermo, now 90, and complete control of her money.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/nyregion/to-collect-debts-nursing-home-seizing-control-over-patients.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&_r=1

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
3. The Elderly as a Source of Profit
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:12 PM
Dec 2020

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
4. Complaints on rise of nursing homes forcing out residents
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:15 PM
Dec 2020
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/399219_evicted07.html

Last updated February 6, 2009 11:04 p.m. PT
Even elderly are facing eviction
Complaints on rise of nursing homes forcing out residents

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
5. As Nursing Homes Shift Focus To Short-Term Rehab Care,
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:16 PM
Dec 2020

To Be Old, Frail And Evicted: Patients at Risk
As Nursing Homes Shift Focus To Short-Term Rehab Care,
Families Must Look Elsewhere
By THEO FRANCIS
August 7, 2008; Page D1 wsj

----------------------------

FEWER PROTECTIONS WITH ASSISTED LIVING


Federal and state law gives nursing-home residents strong protections
against eviction -- at least on paper. But these protections don't
apply to residents in assisted-living facilities. And residents
dependent on Medicaid are particularly vulnerable to eviction, state
officials and resident-advocates say.

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
6. The shameful problem of elder financial abuse is only going to get worse.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:22 PM
Dec 2020
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_bills/2015/07/ann_rule_eunice_bellah_harper_lee_the_problem_of_elder_financial_abuse_is.html

The Grandparent Trap


The shameful problem of elder financial abuse is only going to get worse.

By Helaine Olen

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
7. Abuse Plagues System of Legal Guardians for Adults
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:40 PM
Dec 2020
http://www.wsj.com/articles/abuse-plagues-system-of-legal-guardians-for-adults-1446225524

Abuse Plagues System of Legal Guardians for Adults

Allegations of financial exploitation and abuse are rife, despite waves of overhaul efforts
Court-appointed guardians controlled much of 74-year-old Linda McDowell's life for 30 months. A judge ended the guardianship in 2014, and she now lives in her mobile home with her dog, Sam, much of her savings gone. ENLARGE


By Arian Campo-Flores and Ashby Jones

Oct. 30, 2015 1:18 p.m. ET 200 COMMENTS

One day in March 2012, 71-year-old Linda McDowell received a knock at the door of her small Vancouver, Wash., home. Ms. McDowell needed court-appointed help, the visitor told her.

It turned out that Ms. McDowell’s former housemate and companion had pushed for a court petition claiming Ms. McDowell was unable to take care of herself. The petition said Ms. McDowell had recently made an unsafe driving maneuver, had been disruptive in a doctor’s office and, in a recent phone call, had seemed confused over the whereabouts of some personal papers.

Based on the motion, a judge ordered an attorney to act as a temporary guardian with control over Ms. McDowell’s money and medical care. Ms. McDowell was also to pay for these services.

“I was shocked,” says Ms. McDowell, who once worked as a conference manager for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration before a second career in real-estate investing. “I had never met this person, and here she was telling me I basically belonged to her.”

The visit marked the start of a 30-month stretch in Washington’s guardianship system that upended her life and drained much of her $700,000 in assets. People involved in her case still disagree about whether Ms. McDowell ever needed a guardian. But by the time a judge decided that one wasn’t necessary, the value of her assets had dropped by about $470,000, much of which was spent on several guardians and related expenses, court and bank records show.

“My savings are gone,” says Ms. McDowell, now living in a motor home near Sequim, Wash., with her dog, Sam. “They took everything.”

For decades, states have granted courts the power to appoint guardians or conservators for elderly or disabled people unable to tend to their basic needs. Most appointed guardians are family members, but judges can turn to a growing industry of professional, unrelated guardians.

The caretakers’ authority varies by case and jurisdiction, but often they are granted broad authority over a ward’s finances, medical care and living conditions. Unlike a power of attorney, which one person can grant to another and revoke at any time, guardianship is established by a judge and can only be revoked by the court.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> More but it's subscription.

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
8. comments from various articles:
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 08:51 PM
Dec 2020

comments from various articles:

(my comment)
It makes you wonder; how many poor people have all these guardianship companies, good-deed-doers, and lawyers so anxious to become their legal guardians?

---------------------------------------

A short comment representative of many other comments ---
Wayne Collier 1 hour ago
Lawyers, acting as legal guardians, have found old people to be a real "honey pot" to raid if they have any money!!! Also, it looks like judges at the local level are in on the deal.

---------------------------------------------

Sam Sugar
7 hours ago
As Founder of AAAPG, I am inundated on a daily basis with calls from around the country from desperate family members begging for a way to save their loved ones from the abyss of for-profit guardianship. The system of for-profit guardianship is so lucrative, so well-connected, so unassailable and so resistant to change that escape is essentially impossible and the most common way guardianships and is with death.

We are committed to change this egregious system.

--------------------------------------

ENID HINKES
Being an attorney and having experience with the courts, my advice is to stay away from them if you can. Judges are nothing more than attorneys with political connections. Some are thoughtful, hardworking and honest, and others can be crooked, lazy and indifferent. You never know what you will get, and even the good ones sometimes get it wrong. The abuses listed in the article could be from judges too chummy with the guardians and lawyers they appoint, or too lazy to review the billings.

If you are put in a situation where you have to use the courts or a lawyer, keep on top of things. Ask how much fees are, and don't take "it will be reasonable" for an answer, as that is a sure indication that it won't be.

Get along with siblings, visit your elderly parents, and make your divorces as amicable as possible. Discuss finances with your parents while they still know what they are doing and don't discuss their money with others, especially lawyers.

...

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
9. How the Elderly Lose Their Rights
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:07 PM
Dec 2020

How the Elderly Lose Their Rights

(Guardians and custodians become the 'owners' of seniors and their assets)

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

Guardians can sell the assets and control the lives of senior citizens without their consent—and reap a profit from it.

(One thing you can believe is that these slimy bast_rds are not trying to become guardians of poor people)

-------------

“You can’t just walk into somebody’s home and take them!” Belshe told her.

Parks responded calmly, “It’s legal. It’s legal.”

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
10. seniors social isolation loneliness purpose - target for scammers
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:17 PM
Dec 2020

Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

seniors social isolation loneliness purpose


I can think of at least 4 ____ members who have gone to live in assisted living or senior living communities and one mother of a ____ member.

At least four of the five have expressed happiness in having the social interaction of the community.
(Heard that the fifth one is appreciative of it also)

Conventional thinking is that living and dying in your long time home is a great thing but maybe not if you are simply sitting there waiting for a few friends and relatives to drop by.

Reverse mortgages (a poor financial decision) emphasize that wish in their advertising.

Con men and salesmen love to become the new social friends of lonely seniors.
Lots of phone calls and visits.
Even online dating suitors (m/f) - golddiggers of both genders.
(You seem like a person I can relate to - Can I borrow $5,000?)

Remember that article I sent out recently about the 89 year old lady who died truly alone and lonely because she outlived all her friends and relatives - - - in her home.

The phone company took her phone because she did not use it enough.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726565/Old-age-curse-I-feel-like-half-dried-rug-purpose-rung-Heartbreaking-words-woman-outlived-loved-ones-lost-zest-life-dying-kitchen-floor.html

"Her will was found with her friend's names written down as her next of kin and then crossed out as each one passed away"

Living alone does not necessarily mean lonely if you are part of a community.

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
11. Grandfather's Wooden Bowl-
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:24 PM
Dec 2020

Grandfather's Wooden Bowl--A frail old man went to live with his son, daughter-in-law, and four-year old grandson. The old man's hands trembled, his eyesight was blurred, and his step faltered. The family ate together at the table. But the elderly grandfather's shaky hands and failing sight made eating difficult. Peas rolled off his spoon onto the floor. When he grasped the glass, milk spilled on the tablecloth. The son and daughter-in-law became irritated with the mess. "We must do something about father," said the son. "I've had enough of his spilled milk, noisy eating, and food on the floor." So the husband and wife set a small table in the corner. There, Grandfather ate alone while the rest of the family enjoyed dinner. Since Grandfather had broken a dish or two, his food was served in a wooden bowl. When the family glanced in Grandfather's direction, sometimes he had a tear in his eye as he sat alone. Still, the only words the couple had for him were sharp admonitions when he dropped a fork or spilled food. The four-year-old watched it all in silence. One evening before supper, the father noticed his son playing with wood scraps on the floor. He asked the child sweetly, 'What are you making?' Just as sweetly, the boy responded, "Oh, I am making a little bowl for you and Mama to eat your food in when I grow up." The four-year-old smiled and went back to work. The words so struck the parents so that they were speechless. Then tears started to stream down their cheeks. Though no word was spoken, both knew what must be done. That evening the husband took Grandfather's hand and gently led him back to the family table. For the remainder of his days he ate every meal with the family. And for some reason, neither husband nor wife seemed to care any longer when a fork was dropped, milk spilled, or the tablecloth soiled. Let's respect elders and the problems that arise from age. Everyone of us will be old someday. -
.
This story goes back at least to the 1500s.
.
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/woodbowl.asp

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
12. A vast change in lifestyle
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:28 PM
Dec 2020

We went to see Rudy Sat evening. He seems in good spirits.
Walking fairly well, even without a cane for short distances.
He is in assisted living.

It might seem like a large building with a lot of residents but it's still just a small community.
Lots of folks, both residents and staff spoke friendly to him and knew his name before he got there.
"New kid on the block" as someone mentioned.
Eighty something years old can be "new".
Meals are generally in the dining hall but can be brought up if you are feeling badly.

His legs are doing better. Initially, his legs gave way (twice) at church and they thought he had a stroke but it was not a stroke.

He got there last Thursday and does not have any physical therapy sked that he knows of.

He welcomes company.
I didn't ask but I would think that he could go out for a short spin if anyone has the opportunity to do it.
Rudy has been a pretty good guy in _______.

His family took his car, his computer and is selling his house.

He did not specify but indicated that he had messed up his finances in some serious way.

We do not know the full story of both sides but we all know from other situations that family can be real pr_cks when it comes to managing your money.
We have seen this with other ___ folks, friends and probably family members who have passed on.

He does not know if this living arrangement is for good or temporary.
He's not too keen on the 'for good' possibility but not depressed about it either. He has already considered the activity skeds of the place.
What little we saw indicated physical and mental activities.

---------------------------------

In my volunteer work taking veterans to the VA Hospital, I have picked up folks from flop houses to luxury.
Now that I look back on it, I see that there is a vast difference in the use of spare time for residents.
Also a vast difference in the cost and who is paying for it;;; you or Medicare.

From your own home to an efficiency room (mini kitchen included, maybe).
Free to go with your own car to having no car.
Computer to no computer.
Minimal possesions (we do tend to 'like' our stuff)
The activities can be very important.
.
Now put your name in this story.
.
A lot of us are going to be there.
.
=====================================
.
Be kind to your kids. They will pick your nursing home.

That's a joke folks..... and then it turns out to be true?

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
13. Social isolation can make one a scammer's target.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 09:55 PM
Dec 2020

Social isolation can make one a scammer's target.

The mother of one of our friends was living in the old homestead, alone, waiting for friends and relatives to visit. She moved to an assisted living facility. Our friend complained that she almost had to make an appointment to see her mother because there was so much social activity going on.

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
14. And now something cheery...
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 10:17 PM
Dec 2020

And now something cheery...

Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #14)

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
19. Your negativity is noted.
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 10:50 PM
Dec 2020

keithbvadu2

(36,770 posts)
18. Duplicate post. Cancelled
Tue Dec 8, 2020, 10:48 PM
Dec 2020
Latest Discussions»Support Forums»Seniors»This message was self-del...