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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 05:21 PM Sep 2015

Stonewall Didn’t Need a White Male Lead. So Why Does It Have One?

http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/stonewall-yet-another-white-surrogate-project.html



It’s as bad as you feared. Roland Emmerich’s Stonewall makes good on the historical erasure promised in its trailer, turning a pivotal moment in queer history into a vanity project. Stonewall, the three-day uprising against the police that birthed the modern queer-rights movement, also made the names of two trans activists of color: Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P. Johnson, who eventually founded STAR — Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries (later renamed Street Transgender Action Revolutionaries), an advocacy organization for homeless LGBT youth. They are two exceedingly important historical figures, and the types of compelling characters around whom movies should be made.

Stonewall doesn’t simply erase them from the record — Rivera becomes a lovelorn “composite” character named Ray, and Johnson, who many witnesses say started the riots, isn’t present when they begin — but instead replaces them with a fabricated fictional lead: Danny Winters, a gay white boy from Indiana who serves as our entrée into the wild world of Christopher Street. In Stonewall, people of color, street queens, hustlers, and lesbians become peripheral, undesirable, and, at times, delusional — an amusing footnote in the great arc of gay liberation — while Danny, the interloper, throws the first brick that starts the riots, yelling, "Gay power!" In this way, Danny misrepresents queer history, while also acting as yet another instance of a narrative relying on an audience surrogate: the white guy who can properly tell the story of "the other."

This was always the intention. In the press notes for the film, producer Michael Fossat said, “The biggest challenge in casting this film was the character of Danny because he’s in every scene and the film is really about him.” They settled on Jeremy Irvine, a 25-year-old, blue-eyed British actor with a shaky grip on the American accent. “Danny is a very straight-acting kid,” Emmerich said. “[The audience] can relate more strongly to him and through Danny’s eyes they’ll experience the more extreme situations depicted in the film.” Who is the audience? “I didn’t make this movie only for gay people, I made it also for straight people.” he told BuzzFeed. “As a director you have to put yourself in your movies, and I’m white and gay.”

<snip>



Stonewall parody trailer



39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Stonewall Didn’t Need a White Male Lead. So Why Does It Have One? (Original Post) Starry Messenger Sep 2015 OP
I can't decide SusanCalvin Sep 2015 #1
I'll join you Number23 Sep 2015 #2
This is so embarrassing. I hear he made the comment he needed a str8t acting hero randys1 Sep 2015 #4
Selma is completely different from The Help. It's told from the black perspective Number23 Sep 2015 #7
That is what I saw...The other one i wouldnt watch was about the white Woman who took in randys1 Sep 2015 #8
I couldn't do that one either... onpatrol98 Sep 2015 #15
The help made a ton of money. Selma was a financial disappointment yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #9
Dude Where's My Car and Paul Blart: Mall Cop made alot of money too Number23 Sep 2015 #13
Your last line is a perfect summation Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #18
I've never been an indy film person all that much. There have been a few that have caught my eye Number23 Sep 2015 #19
Hollywood formula Warpy Sep 2015 #3
A British actor. yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #10
Not all of us are white males though. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #11
I think a lot of us do Warpy Sep 2015 #17
Hollywood perpetuates society's prejudices YoungDemCA Sep 2015 #20
To answer your question Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #5
My dollars are definitely not going toward this film. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #12
This is unfortunate JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #14
From the little that I've heard Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #16
Watch this little tribute to my friend and neighbor Marsha instead..... bettyellen Sep 2015 #22
In other words Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #6
"As a director you have to put yourself in your movies..." Act_of_Reparation Sep 2015 #30
Marsha Johnson was legendary! Such a shame it did not occur to them to capture her fierceness on bettyellen Sep 2015 #21
adding a Youtube link to a doc on Marsha- the P is for "Pay it no Mind" .... bettyellen Sep 2015 #23
Thank you bettyellen! Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #24
you're welcome! Martha lived near me, and used to visit a store friends ran in the W Village all bettyellen Sep 2015 #25
Thank you for posting this. cwydro Oct 2015 #39
I remember stonewall gwheezie Sep 2015 #26
And Jezebel says: It was a big old flop at the box office on top of everything else Number23 Sep 2015 #27
"Milk" did great without replacing Harvey Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #29
In our white supremacist culture, white audiences need someone to identify with… MrScorpio Sep 2015 #28
This seemed particularly egregious to me. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #31
They do it all of the time. nt MrScorpio Sep 2015 #32
Yep. If they could have found a way to get Brad Pitt to play MLK in Selma, I have no doubt Number23 Sep 2015 #33
Hollywood gives America what America wants. And America wants white randys1 Sep 2015 #35
Water under the bridge at this point LittleBlue Sep 2015 #34
i'm so glad the movie failed as spectacularly as it did La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2015 #36
+1000000000000000000000 randys1 Sep 2015 #37
Me too. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #38

Number23

(24,544 posts)
2. I'll join you
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 06:16 PM
Sep 2015


This is why so many of us had so many problems with The Help and other movies. This idea that white Hollywood has that stories, even stories about black people, black culture and black movements, simply MUST be told from the point of view of a white person is so moronic, stifling and maddening it makes you want to scream, cry and throw things all at the same time.

I just saw a story where a big time Bollywood actress has just made the leap to American television. Her character's name is Alex Parrish and she's half white, even though the actress that plays her is fully Indian. I guess having a fully Indian character who's name is Priyanka or some other gorgeous Indian name would just be considered too much.

And what really pisses me off is that Hollywood assumes that everyone is as insular, closed minded and racist as they are. And we are ALL lessened and denied some amazing stories and characters as a result.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
4. This is so embarrassing. I hear he made the comment he needed a str8t acting hero
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:02 PM
Sep 2015

THis has REALLY pissed off the LGBT community, as it should.

I have not watched "The Help" to this day because my Black friends told me what you just said.

I did watch "Selma" however

Number23

(24,544 posts)
7. Selma is completely different from The Help. It's told from the black perspective
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:14 PM
Sep 2015

and has a black director. So it doesn't have the exploitative feel that The Help and other movies have.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
8. That is what I saw...The other one i wouldnt watch was about the white Woman who took in
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:28 PM
Sep 2015

a Black kid who played football, I think Sandra Bullock was in it

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
9. The help made a ton of money. Selma was a financial disappointment
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:52 PM
Sep 2015

Hollywood fears losing money. That is number 1 on their agenda.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
13. Dude Where's My Car and Paul Blart: Mall Cop made alot of money too
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:19 PM
Sep 2015

Interesting the things that Hollywood keeps shoveling money into, whether its successful or not.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
18. Your last line is a perfect summation
Fri Sep 25, 2015, 01:49 PM
Sep 2015
And what really pisses me off is that Hollywood assumes that everyone is as insular, closed minded and racist as they are. And we are ALL lessened and denied some amazing stories and characters as a result.


I think that one reason I gravitate towards indy films is they're often a slice of life outside of the Hollywood box.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
19. I've never been an indy film person all that much. There have been a few that have caught my eye
Fri Sep 25, 2015, 07:34 PM
Sep 2015

but you're right, they are the ones telling the most interesting and diverse stories right now. The main movie houses seem to be all about superheroes and cartoon villains right now. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy those immensely, but the fact that we've had 112 Spiderman movies and the first movie about MLK just came out last year is indicative of something truly wrong.

There has also been a huge resurgence in film festivals ie like Sundance but even smaller. Those are awesome. Even if you don't like the movie the fact that they are often held outdoors still makes them special.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
3. Hollywood formula
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 06:41 PM
Sep 2015

says you have to have a lead character to make the audience identify with somebody in the film.

They missed the boat completely. What was so exciting about Stonewall was that a whole community rose up and said "enough!" without being galvanized to do so by some charismatic leader type. Hollywood just can't deal with that one. Gotta have a leader and if you can make it a white boy from the heartland, so much the better.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
11. Not all of us are white males though.
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:19 PM
Sep 2015

I would have a better chance of entering the story from the point of view of the Black trans women, even though I'm white and cis female. I guess I have white boy from the heartland fatigue.

Warpy

(111,245 posts)
17. I think a lot of us do
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 10:57 PM
Sep 2015

I know I'm bored shitless by the Hollywood formula.

Avatar was a little different, at least they were all Bluish. I just won't forgive Cameron for killing off my favorite character, Trudy.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
5. To answer your question
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:03 PM
Sep 2015

Easier to cover up the shallowness of a bad script...put a pretty white face on it...

I don't mind that the story itself is fictional...but given something this significant, they are going for the shallowest bullshit and the bottom line...hope it bombs.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
12. My dollars are definitely not going toward this film.
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:31 PM
Sep 2015

I think there are some informational pickets planned for opening day.

JustAnotherGen

(31,811 posts)
14. This is unfortunate
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:51 PM
Sep 2015

I've really been looking forward to this movie, Revenant, Black Mass (this weekend), Pawn Sacrifice and Truth.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
16. From the little that I've heard
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 10:54 PM
Sep 2015

the 1996 film is better

I will say that as someone who reads a lot of fiction and narrative I don't think that I would mind that if a character like this was sort of a "roving eye" central character/intelligence who tells the story, that can a very effective and unusual way of telling the story, actually, but that this guy seems to play the hero...

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
22. Watch this little tribute to my friend and neighbor Marsha instead.....
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 03:28 PM
Sep 2015

It is exactly what Stonewall is missing.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
6. In other words
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:07 PM
Sep 2015

Who is the audience? “I didn’t make this movie only for gay people, I made it also for straight people.” he told BuzzFeed. “As a director you have to put yourself in your movies, and I’m white and gay.”


I'm a money grubbing queen (and I can say that, folks!) that wants to make lots of money...as opposed to a quality film...well, some would accuse Lee Daniels of doing the same thing (not that I want to open THAT particular can of worms)

3,2,1 until I'm alerted...

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
30. "As a director you have to put yourself in your movies..."
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 03:10 PM
Sep 2015

So, who played Roland Emerich in Godzilla? The irradiated lizard of inconstant size, or the stodgy pseudo-scientist guy who studied radioactive worms?

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. Marsha Johnson was legendary! Such a shame it did not occur to them to capture her fierceness on
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 06:35 PM
Sep 2015

Film. I can think of quite a few amazing actresses that could have been amazing in that role- beautiful, tough, funny and inspirational. What a let down. Because dudes in suits in LA are scared. Ugh.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
25. you're welcome! Martha lived near me, and used to visit a store friends ran in the W Village all
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 04:11 PM
Sep 2015

time. She had such an amazing sense of humor and a lot of heart. Her funny little thing was to pick up magazines one place and drop them the next, collecting a few bucks along the way as she caught up with the local gossip. We'd laugh because it even though she was running a bit of a scam- it also really was better having the new magazines, and worth it to have her company, LOL.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
39. Thank you for posting this.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 08:17 AM
Oct 2015

What a remarkable and brave person. I'd heard about her before, but not in this depth.

I suppose they never solved the mystery of the circumstances surrounding her death?

"Pay it no mind" is going to be my new motto. And perhaps my new signature line as well.

Thank you again.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
26. I remember stonewall
Sun Sep 27, 2015, 04:28 PM
Sep 2015

Reality was real enough. I had 2 hangouts during that era. 116th&Madison and Christopher St very lively places to be.
I'm not going to see stonewall. I don't expect a fictionalized version of historical events to be accurate but let's not make a soap opera out if it.
I watched queer as folk for years, it was what it is a soap opera kind of show, like empire. Usually entertaining, easy to get hooked on the characters and about as close to reality as Dallas
The crackdown on gay folks was deadly, it cost lives, there has to be some respect for that.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
29. "Milk" did great without replacing Harvey
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 09:00 AM
Sep 2015

I hope a different and more real film gets made someday. The director must not watch anything but his own films.

MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
28. In our white supremacist culture, white audiences need someone to identify with…
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:16 AM
Sep 2015

Hollywood is notorious for this kind of thing.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
31. This seemed particularly egregious to me.
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 03:31 PM
Sep 2015

There's a lot of race-bending and white-washing in Hollywood, but to take historical figures and just make them white and male?

Number23

(24,544 posts)
33. Yep. If they could have found a way to get Brad Pitt to play MLK in Selma, I have no doubt
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:42 PM
Sep 2015

they would have run with it.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
35. Hollywood gives America what America wants. And America wants white
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 02:36 PM
Sep 2015

str8t people to be comfortable.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
34. Water under the bridge at this point
Tue Sep 29, 2015, 01:04 AM
Sep 2015

Probably saved a woman or minority from having their career tarnished by a disaster.

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