African American
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders admits he initially mishandled Black Lives Matter: “I plead guilty…"
The New Yorker is out with a new in-depth profile of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, featuring interviews with the senator, his wife, his former chief of staff, and numerous close friends in an effort to examine his rapid rise in the polls.
In The Populist Prophet, Margaret Talbot goes on the campaign trail with Sanders and speaks with supporters to understand his appeal. What she discovered can best be summarized by this passage:
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_admits_he_initially_mishandled_black_lives_matter_i_plead_guilty_i_should_have_been_more_sensitive/?source=newsletter
retrowire
(10,345 posts)because I myself am grumpy and may have reacted in the same way "I won't shout over you, should I leave?"
but after that incident I think he only got better. especially in Seattle. he let them have the stage and he stood there quietly. he understood that their anger was righteous and they needed this more than him.
I believe Bernie is a good man.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)a good man whose worldview/privilege, sadly, blinds him to the experience of others.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)if that were the case, he never would've walked the streets with the people years ago. blind privilege never would have noticed the problem or cared.
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply because that's a pretty crass false statement.
to deny that he picketed with people who were struggling with problems that didn't even affect him is kinda ignorant of the facts. he could have sat home and enjoyed his privileges... but he never did that so... again... that's a false statement.
if you would like to tell me exactly how Bernie is blind to the needs of others outside of his worldview, I'll be sure to read it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)perhaps, his privilege has him believing that all peoples' issues can be solved through that which solves his.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)your qualm is the feeling that he seems to believe that economic solutions will solve most if all problems. that would be a little close sighted of him if it were true.
but I highly doubt that he truly believes that 100%.
I'm absolutely sure he is flexible in thought and not a robot that tries to fit the triangle peg inside the circle hole at all times.
he didn't try and solve inequality and racism back in the day with an economic message, he protested and hung flyers just like anyone else involved. He didn't try and solve lgbtq issues with economic policies, he decried prejudice and unfairness in the system.
again, he can't possibly believe that economics alone is a one size fits all solution. he's a human, not a robot. to think that his thought process is that binary is an assumption. assumptions aren't very solid logic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I accept this ... as a recent evolution.
Perhaps ... but that is NOT the take of his "Good Friend and former Chief of Staff" ... someone that presumably (by nature of his personal and professional roles) knows him, and his thoughts, REALLY well.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)are you able to answer any and all questions about the person that employs you? with 99% accuracy?
not me! which is why I'm not taking this guys interview answer as a solid means by which to size up another man.
I'm just saying, the man is not a written record of who Bernie is or what Bernie stands for. he's a former coworker.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)in fact, I probably couldn't pick her out in a room of 10 white women.
But I'm pretty sure I could answer, with accuracy, any question regarding the importance of unions for my best friend (he is a shop steward), as we have talked about it a lot.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the latter indicates a familiarity on a professional level, which would include philosophical; the former, would suggest familiarity on a person ... both of which indicate a deep understanding of what makes Bernie tick.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)"I dunno about that" on this one.
I'm just doubting they had frequent drinks together, watched Netflix and went bowling like, all the time.
a business title and what the journalist deemed as a "good friend" isn't really as concrete to me.
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)That sums it up perfectly!!!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)those that argue FOR Bernie's take on things ... also, will have their issue solved; but, those that argue AGAINST Bernie's take will have only one half of our issueS solved ... the smaller half.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It seems that the vibe Black folks feel is with good basis.
Now, perhaps, his life-long worldview has evolved (in a matter of a couple months) ... but what jumped out at me is: his close friend and former CoS, was unable to mouth the word "Black", when talking about his very good and very liberal record on matters that (Bernie) never sees/saw as central issues.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)To quoth one of my favorite movies, Harlem Nights "Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups."
so if you're assuming that he was trying to say something about black issues when he may not have been... that's a bit loose in logic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)he mentions a number of issues where Bernie's record is "very good and very liberal" ... is it NOT a concern of yours that Bernie's best friend and former CoS neglected to mention race ... especially when Bernie's ability to connect with Black folks is in question?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)guns, marijuana, animal rights, etc everything under the sun in that sentence so we could be totally sure Bernie cared about those issues?
no... it was a man in an interview. he's not a written document. maybe black issues weren't at the forefront of this particular mans mind, but truth be told he isn't a resume for Bernie.
I think you're assuming things again.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Lol, you have exhibited a lot more patience than I would have.
It's ironic that so many who support Sanders can post flame thread after flame thread about the "insincerity" of Hillary Clinton, yet twist themselves into pretzels to portray Bernie as something he just isn't.
None of these candidates is perfect...none even close to the temperament and capabilities of the current President. All are better than the Republican option.
We ought to have the maturity to acknowledge BS learning in this election cycle as to why his "income equality" - centered approach is inadequate for all Americans, just as we can and should acknowledge politicians have "evolved" on LGBT rights to better represent the changing views of their constituents. These are good things.
There are a lot of things to admire in Sanders political history. I'm waiting to see if he can build a broader coalition than he has. If his voting block doesn't look like the people who shop in our malls every day, he's doing something wrong.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It has been that from the start ...
"HRC is a 3rd way, corporatist, lackey to the Oligarchy"
"Really? ... Her voting record, legislative offering and history seems to speak differently. She seems indistinguishable from Bernie on those regards ... well, except for the war vote (booooo) and the fact that she HAS a legislative offering history ... but hey!"
"No. No. No. is a 3rd way, corporatist, lackey to the Oligarchy!"
"Hmm ... She supports X, Bernie supports X; She support Y, Bernie supports Y; She supports Z, Bernie supports Z ... She Opposes 1, Bernie opposes 1; She Opposes 2, Bernie opposes 2; She Opposes 3, Bernie opposes 3. What's the difference?"
"It's a trick ... She doesn't mean It! In 19XX and 20XX, she said this, that and the other. See ... She's just pandering."
"Or, perhaps, she has evolved on those issues ... This is what she is saying today."
Versus
"Bernie is missing the Black vote because his message of economic policy misses our primary concern."
"Really? ... That's stupid! ... Economic justice IS social justice/Economic justice will bring social justice." (Now can we go back to talking about economic justice?)
"No. No. No. For Black people, the two justices are distinct issues."
"Well ... Martin said ... Malcolm said ... Bernie is saying the same thing!"
"No.They.Didn't, and No he is not. In fact, he isn't saying anything about racial justice apart from economic justice."
(Then, BLM ... "Oops ... Parallel problems ... Racial Justice ... Parallel ... Racial Justice."
"See, he has evolved."
"Hmm ... Okay. Is it's a trick ... He really mean it? Yesterday, he was saying ... Is he just pandering."
"No. He really has evolved on that issue." (Now can we go back to talking about economic justice?)
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Well said, and thanks.
It's amazing how something as plain as day can be so invisible to some...
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)VoteR ID laws, Republicons effort to gerrymander every minority voting bloc they could get their filthy hands on, Jim Crow 2.0, the wholesale effort by our justice systems to incarcerate every two legged black man (women and children) they can, police violence, the charter school BS that takes money from neglected (usually poor, black) public education systems and filters it off to fly-by-night choice schools.....I could probably come up with a few more give me a day or two.
Yes, we all know what he's been up against in the racist batshit crazy Congress but since the problem effecting us ARE so huge, so damaging, so biased, so longstanding you'd think there'd be much more discussion on the problems.
But it's not and my President is (d'uh) BLACK (but you'd think HE'D understand the struggles more than any other candidate or white POTUS, RIGHT?!)
Do I expect Sanders to do any worse than this President..........?
No.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Please tell me you're joking.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)then there is something wrong with one of us, I guess.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Are you part of the top 0.1% or something?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)but some feel that Bernie's focus is only on the economic platform and they don't think he's flexible.
past accounts from many associates confirm this, that he's quite adamant. but logic dictates that he is capable of adjustments and such.
some might call it an evolution but really he's just adjusting his aim, not switching his weapons entirely. his end goal has barely ever changed and that goal is justice and liberty for all as far as I'm concerned.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)past accounts from many associates confirm this, that he's quite adamant.
Exactly.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)He came off as defensive initially.
However, he now clearly understands that social justice is not just a subset of economic justice. He has steadfastly championed social justice causes his whole career, and now he has wisely made it one of his priorities.
Social justice is one of my priorities as well, but I do not see any conflict with economic justice. While they are definitely not one and the same, there is certainly a lot of overlap between the two issues. Just because Sanders has made economic justice central to his campaign does not make Clinton a bigger or better advocate of social justice.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I find Sanders' focus on economic justice primacy troubling.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Are you suggesting you're part of the 1%, then? (ETA: ah, I see, you were responding to someone who very specifically asked about the 0.1%.)
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But that said ... I still hate the "1%" frame ... as FDR were both of the "1%" and most republicans are of the "99%".
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 7, 2015, 12:20 PM - Edit history (2)
Social justice is one of my priorities as well, but I do not see any conflict with economic justice. While they are definitely not one and the same, there is certainly a lot of overlap between the two issues. Just because Sanders has made economic justice central to his campaign does not make Clinton a bigger or better advocate of social justice.
So you really think the fact that Clinton does not care about the ever increasing wealth disparity in this country makes her the more attractive candidate on social justice issues?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Or, any of the 50 (or so) threads on this topic?
I refuse to repeat myself for the 1,000th time. And THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON.
BTW ... you really should brush up on your Bernie Criticism Response 101 ... the appropriate response protocol is to cite to his 50+ years of heroic activism on Civil Rights THEN pivot to what HRC has/hasn't done on Civil Rights.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)See my response number 39 - for now - cease and desist with interacting with this poster.
Not feeling comfortable with their presence in the group due to the NUMEROUS posts they've made back here.
They know - but they choose to try to manage and control the conversation by making us repeat ourselves over and over.
I'm suggesting a limited time out to force them to read and not DISRUPT.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)from measures designed to ameliorate economic disparity in the past.
I also realize that racism is not the same as economic classism because racism persists among all economic classes and in our public and private institutions. Finally, I personally realize that social justice is more important than economic justice because the police and the "justice system" are brutalizing, arresting, fining and jailing thousands upon thousands of POC every year.
What I don't understand is why a candidate's strong and desirable stand against wealth disparity in itself should cause any particular concern among those who are rightfully demanding social justice. Could you possibly supply a link to a post where you or someone else addresses this so you can avoid repeating yourself for the 1000th time?
I realize that I am probably missing something, and I am very willing to learn. Believe it or not, I am just trying to understand.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Because:
I also realize that racism is not the same as economic classism because racism persists among all economic classes and in our public and private institutions. Finally, I personally realize that social justice is more important than economic justice because the police and the "justice system" are brutalizing, arresting, fining and jailing thousands upon thousands of POC every year.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)as long as you are as steadfast, strong, and adamant in your pursuit of social justice.
I think these two issues are both critical and synergistic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 9, 2015, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)
pf not giving social justice and social justice activists their due and the fact that he has now made social justice itself one of his priorities, what else would you like to see him do to assuage your concerns?
randys1
(16,286 posts)talk about their concern that not understanding the reality of life in America as a Black person fully, which no white person could, is an issue?
Add to that a candidate who repeatedly says that economic issues are at the core of all issues including race, even further underscoring Bernie's inability to understand the issue.
Look, he is FAR better than any and all cons, of course.
He may even end up being better than any Dems running for the WH, which is something I actually believe, by the way.
BUT
I am a white guy, I can comfortably make that assumption and if I am wrong, no big diff.
To me.
I mean politically it will be a big diff to me, but not dealing with this issue properly doesn't hurt me or ANY white person.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)He has since evolved a lot.
I think his heart has always been in the right place, but he needed to listen to BLM activists before he got his head right on this issue.
But I don't see how or why a candidate's championing economic justice should be disturbing to any POC who is not a Supreme Court justice or a brain surgeon.
Number23
(24,544 posts)on this issue?
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)We need to put them on a time out.
They've read time and again - they are a one note poster.
I'm not saying indefinitely - but maybe one month which would force them to read.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)My breaking point was here:
Why would a (presumably) white person, come into the African-American Group, enter a discussion regarding what African-Americans think about a candidate's platform, and think that anyone gives a good tinker's damn what that white person is happy with?
I doubt that poster can/will get out of his/her own head long enough to realize how F@#%ed up that is ... so I'm down for the temporary T/O, and allow him/her earn his/her stay. Though I suspect even with a 3 day T/O will result in his/her abandonment of this group ... and several "they don't want to have an honest conversation about race" posts.
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)"I can't get them to see life from my perspective, even after I have entered their group and told them how life should be viewed. If they did, they would put down their belief system and pick up mine. Then...the nerve, after I attempted to re-educate them multiple times, they banned me from their group. If I'm not there, then clearly, they don't want an honest conversation about race."
But, you're right...the endless passive aggressive or downright aggressive rants about being banned from a group they were trying to disrupt. It's like walking into someone's house, talking over the invited house guests, and then bemoaning the fact that you were shown the door.
I don't think they're comfortable with NOT BEING THE CENTER of every conversation. I think most minorities are accustomed to NEVER BEING THE CENTER of any conversation. So, in AA, the dynamic is flipped. And in the US, right now, you have people trying to flip that dynamic...and its been painful to watch as it plays out.
AA Group: "Black Posters Matter!!!"
99% Non Minority: "No, No, wait...what about me. ALL posters matter."
AA Group: "But, your topics already matter throughout 99% of DU. Where will we talk about issues that involve our community directly?"
99% Non Minority: "You're being rude."
AA Group: "Okay, okay...ALL POSTERS MATTER."
99% Non Minority: "By the way, did I mention I don't believe in special groups?"
-------
100%: "Economic Fairness solves all problems! There shall be no dissent. Or, you'll get a republican for president. That is all!"
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)Then they alert stalk the members of this group! You kind of nailed it didn't ya?
Number23
(24,544 posts)I'm sure it's a "gift" you are more than eager to abandon.
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)And do you think one month would be enough??
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)The innocent stuff doesn't fly with me. It's not day one in this group for that poster.
Number23
(24,544 posts)GitRDun
(1,846 posts)The Sanders id is all about pushing the Bernie solution to everyone as a panacea, regardless of what their target audience actual life experience or opinion is....
Tarheel_Dem
(31,229 posts)xfundy
(5,105 posts)Politicians of all stripes have offered them great things many times and fucked them over. Forty acres and a mule comes to mind.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But better late than never. I guess.
Glad that he has finally seen what so many of us saw months ago. And I'm particularly glad that he realized that he was insensitive (as well as clueless) and has done alot to change that.
He then went on to recount watching the arrest video of Sandra Bland, the young African-American woman who mysteriously and suddenly died in a Texas jail cell, as a pivotal moment of recognition for him. It impacted my nights sleep, he said. I dont sleep that great, and it made it even worse.
Its hard to imagine if Sandra Bland were white she would have been thrown to the ground and assaulted and insulted, Sanders argued.
Again. Better late than never. I'm just glad he got there in the end.
randys1
(16,286 posts)What we know is NO gop candidate will even acknowledge the issue, let alone deal with it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Bernie fans here.
Have you seen any mea culpas? I mean Bernie himself admitted he was wrong about how he behaved.
Number23
(24,544 posts)This same crowd that decided that black people that dared to request that Sanders address the specific issues that affected minority communities were conducting "jihads" against him and accusing Sanders of "being a racist?"
This same crowd that called Black Lives Matter protesters "thugs" and "subhuman." And who now wail that "they don't feel comfortable in the AA forum" after they called BLM "pro-Hillary shills" and applauded Ben FUCKING Carson for sliming BLM in the most craven and dishonest ways possible?
This same crowd that blames the AA posters on DU for not bowing and scraping while they swarmed all over this forum and shit all over the regulars of this group when they weren't shitting all over the black community as a whole?
I don't need or want any mea culpas from any of these people. What I want more than anything is for them to just leave us all the hell alone.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)He then went on to recount watching the arrest video of Sandra Bland, the young African-American woman who mysteriously and suddenly died in a Texas jail cell, as a pivotal moment of recognition for him. It impacted my nights sleep, he said. I dont sleep that great, and it made it even worse.
Its hard to imagine if Sandra Bland were white she would have been thrown to the ground and assaulted and insulted, Sanders argued.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_admits_he_initially_mishandled_black_lives_matter_i_plead_guilty_i_should_have_been_more_sensitive/?source=newsletter
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)He's not going to be the nominee.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)FWiW though no one had posted what Sanders actually said in full