African American
Related: About this forum"Finding Your Roots" on PBS
My husband and I recently discovered this show, which has been on for awhile (we are watching past seasons now). It is similar to the show on NBC (?) "Who Do You Think You Are?". Both are shows which explore the genealogy of various famous people (mostly movie/TV personalities) The latter, WDYTYA?, follows on individual though out the entire show, going to various locations and the like. Most of the people are white, though they have followed a Chinese-American (I can't remember her name, she's a morning TV show host) and Alfre Woodard. However, FYR is hosted by Dr. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and it follows three individuals at a time, but what is even more interesting and unique about the show is it's use of DNA and it's exploring the roots of various ethnic groups, including African-Americans.
Last night's show was Maya Rudolph (Jewish and African-American), Keenan Ivory Wayans, and Shonda Rhimes. It was very interesting. You can see it here: http://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/ (this goes to the Oklahoma PBS, so if it doesn't show, search your local PBS station website).
I am very interested in genealogy, and have been exploring various things. The Jewish side is very difficult because most of the records about Jews were destroyed in WWII, no matter what country served as an origin for Jews. I am also helping out one of my best friend's sister who are African-American. As I am sure some of you may be aware, it is VERY difficult to go way back because of slavery. There is a thing called the "1870 wall". 1870 was the first US census in which all African-Americans were recorded with a first and last name, prior to that many AA folk either were listed by first name only, or no name at all.
If you are interested in genealogy, I highly recommend this program!
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)tishaLA
(14,176 posts)It's a documentary that's aired on PBS and is/was available on Netflix. It's quite good.
It's directly by and stars Lacey Schwartz who grows up in Woodstock NY in a pretty normal middle class Jewish home. She has always had darker skin than her parents, but they explain it away as her resembling her Sicilian paternal grandfather. At her bat mitzvah, a woman tells her how nice it is to have an Ethiopian Jew in the congregation; she has a biracial boyfriend in HS and everyone thinks they are brother and sister. Then, she applies to Georgetown and has to send in a photo of herself as part of the application package (a practice I thought ended long, long ago) and based on the picture, she receives a greeting from the Black Students Alliance. So, when she went to Georgetown, she "becomes" black; as she says in the documentary, her "dark skin" suddenly became light skin and her "unruly hair" suddenly becomes good hair.
At any rate, she eventually discovers that she is the result of a long-term affair between her mother and an African American guy she met when she worked in the parks department in NYC, something her father sensed but never quite admitted to himself. But the film is interesting because it explores how we construct race in the US--how much is what we see, how much is cultural, and how much is biological. (when I first saw it on PBS, I texted a <Jewish> friend and said, "Have you heard about a film called Little White Lie? It's about a woman with the impossibly perfect name 'Lacey Schwartz'"--because Schwartz literally means black and lace simultaneously permits and prevents seeing through it)
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)It is on my "bookmarked" list though...along with a bunch of other things. We do love our movies and documentaries in this house. I'll check it out.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It's always been difficult for many black people to do these types of services because of the disruption of slavery. Sites like ancestry.com, which can track some white people's history back 3-400 years don't seem all that useful.
But this is such an interesting show. And completely off topic but good Lord, Keenan Ivory Wayans is STILL fine after all these years. Goodness gracious...
MADem
(135,425 posts)So few came out of Madagascar, I think perhaps five thousand, TOTAL.... but he's not the first one Skip Gates identified. Ben Jealous also traced his ancestry there !
The DNA helps SO much--it can narrow heritage down to a region (or, more likely, several distinct regions) and that's how they nailed Ben Jealous and KIW's Madagascarian heritage.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It was on a different browser from my hola'ing one so I couldn't see it. But I will watch it as soon as I can.
So are the Wayans of Madagascaran heritage?? I have seldom seen one family produce such fine, gorgeous men.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I can give you a spoiler if you'd like; let me know and I will respond here with "SPOILER" in the title. It may not be much of spoiler if you have studied the slave trade with the US. And, in case you were unaware, there is an Ancestry.com Australia version, one for Ireland and England, as well.
Can you watch youtube videos? If so, I think (I am not sure) there is a clip of the show on YouTube.
Number23
(24,544 posts)So I'd love a Youtube video. I can watch those with no problem. Thanks a bunch.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)There are links to some other clips. This is the preview of the episode I was discussing:
I can't find the whole episode, but it looks like they crop up at a later date. Check out some of the other ones though!
ETA: Lookie what I found!!!!
&list=PLkX5r_ZH7smEEYZD3KG_6rAfwS6U1TRRZ
Take a peek off to the side and you will see other clips, including another of KIW, from season 3!
ETA...again...
Seems the above didn't show the list I wanted, so try this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkX5r_ZH7smEEYZD3KG_6rAfwS6U1TRRZ
Number23
(24,544 posts)So did KIW's ancestor go back to his master after having been kidnapped by Canadian abolitionists???!! I need answers!!!!
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)Yes, he went back. He even served the family after Emancipation.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I am still using Ancestry.com, but I have learned to use other sites as I stumble across them. Jews have a problem as many of us were immigrants and our ancestors changed their names when coming to this country. Sometimes, it is close enough to take a guess, and other times it isn't even remotely close to a current name. Ancestry also has a "help" section if you are exploring African-American heritage. It is where I found out about the "1870 Wall", but there are ways to search around it, and there are also sections which only search African-American ((B)lack, (C)olored, (M)ulatto, (N)egro all terms used in records) roots. Another group which has a very difficult time are the Native Americans. The Cherokee and few other nations have some pretty good records, but you have to approach the individual nation and it can be quite expensive! I am hitting a wall with that group too. It is family "legend" so far, but it does seem the possibility is high as there are two ancestors which are proving to be quite elusive.
As for AA people, one "trick" I have learned is to search the old white pages because they often list a known address and sometimes spouses and neighbors, which can lead to finding other information. Also, one has to really pay attention to registers. One of my friend's relatives was listed as "C" (Colored) in the 1880 census, but the 1890 one, was listed as "M" (Mulatto), and in 1910 or 1920, I can't remember) was listed as "W"....WHITE! But it was the same person! The last one I could find 1950 (?) with him, he was listed as "B" (Black). I found out in the earlier censuses, often race was "decided" by the census taker, and wasn't really asked and might depend on the neighborhood where the census was taken.
As for KIW, good genes! Strong genes!
Number23
(24,544 posts)Is it because of all the people running around claiming to be 1/300th Cherokee just because they have high cheekbones? Heck, but judging by all of the info this series and other similar ones have uncovered, that could actually be true!
Re: the white pages trick, do you mean the ACTUAL white pages as in the phone book? I'm sorry I'm a bit dense on this but I've never heard this before! Or is this the name of a certain part of collected old census data? And wouldn't "mulatto" have been considered "colored" back then?
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)The first is many NA nations relied on oral history and those who had written histories didn't keep records like the "white man" did/does. Second, many records were destroyed when NA were attacked and subjugated. Also, there are many different NA nations and each had different ways of communicating historical records, so many were simply lost over time. The Cherokee Nation probable has some of the best records because of the "Dawes Registry." You are right about many people claiming NA ancestry, many cling to the "Cherokee princess" myth. Interestingly enough, I think Maya Rudolph was one of those who thought there was NA blood in her family too and DNA showed a big, fat goose egg (zero)! LOL!
Yep, I am talking about the phonebook white pages! Crazy, huh?! Some of the old white pages would designate if the person/business was "Negro/Negro-owned", usually with an asterisk. I never knew that and found that out in my searches. Ancestry.com has a variety of databases, including some phonebooks, newspapers (I can find more at newspapers.com), and military (fold3.com) records (both of the previous sites are associated with Ancestry but require additional registration).
The terminology, at least in my searches, depends some on where the census was taken. "Mulatto" was basically white/black, and, in at least one form I found, white/Indian (the term used as opposed to NA). However, some census takers simply used N, C, or B. I haven't found any information why some made the distinction and others did not.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I am COMPLETELY befuddled and simultaneously fascinated!!! Are you using the online white pages http://www.whitepages.com/ or are you going to the library and using hard copies?? This is the wildest, weirdest, most fascinating thing I've ever heard in forever!
And if the info is in the white pages, am I wrong to wonder why it can't be imported into ancestry.com and other registries??
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)Ancestry.com has several old white pages scanned into their files, so one can actually access a phonebook from 1940 from Muncie, Indiana (just an example) and see where their relatives actually lived. By looking at people in the neighborhood, it can lead to other names because many still lived near their relatives. So, if you hit a dead end with one name, you find the name of someone who could be a relative and explore their history and suddenly new avenues open. There are "hard copies" in some libraries, but I don't know how common it is.
Is that a better explanation? I know I was a bit confusing.
Here's an article about new editions to the British edition of Ancestry...
http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/art40343
Number23
(24,544 posts)talking about is more than anything else. I didn't even know it was possible to use the White Pages to research one's ancestry. That is a simply amazing discovery and I can't thank you enough for posting about it here, even if that meant you had to deal with my asinine questions in the process.
Perhaps if the British are putting their White Pages archives online, the Americans can't be too far behind?
If you ever discover a tutorial on how to do this or any other way for black people to research their history, I'd love for you to add it to the Black History that Doesn't make it to History Books thread pinned to the top of this forum. This is an extraordinary thread.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I was trying to take a screenshot to show you, but I can't figure out this new system (I can't find my paint program!)! As soon as I do, I will try to give you a screenshot and it will make a bit more sense. By looking at neighbors, you can find other family members, and, in a few cases, you can discover a spouses' name which may have a different spelling, which can open a new search.
I have a membership, so I don't know if this link will actually work for you: http://www.ancestry.com/africanamerican . There is a brief video on tips and tricks for searching for AA ancestors. The "Wall of 1870" refers to the fact prior to then, US Censuses did not list the last names of African-Americans, except for those who were free men and women!
Also, this YouTube list has full episodes of "Finding Your Roots: African-Americans" (4 parts) and all five parts of Dr. Gates' "Many Rivers to Cross" (a MUST see): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFZDK7j8CEXwXx781auKy8RyWV_eUTIB7
Number23
(24,544 posts)Your posts have been so incredibly helpful. I will check out those YouTube videos next
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I wasn't sure if it would. I forgot to ask my husband where my paint program is, so I didn't get a copy of the phonebook. Sorry. I will say that searching the ancestries of three minorities, Jews, African-Americans, and Native Americans, is quite challenging. There are some white people problems too, but only a few. I have a great-grandmother who only appears in two censuses. It may be because she is Native American and her early years are obscured. It has also been unsettling to find my ancestors owned slaves, more unnerving for American-Americans I am sure, but still to see that part of your history exposed is embarrassing.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)Were taken as slaves. I can trace our Cherokee ancestry because that was in my father's life time. He was afraid of one grandmother and her mother in particular because of B Movie Westerns.
Where it gets messy - we know a great of his was a Slave - Seminole - but she was absorbed in the 1870 census. She's also in the slave narratives from the FDR admin.
It gets even more messy in my dad's mothers family - when the 1870 and 1880 and 1890 census list is great grandfather as white with a Cherokee wife (Mississippi). Their daughter marries a black man - and they move to Alabama and voila - they are now black. This is around the time he got written out of the Confederate Army even though he was in hip deep with Longstreet.
Number23
(24,544 posts)probably after becoming infected with any number of diseases being carried by the white slavemasters and their cronies.
MADem
(135,425 posts)tishaLA
(14,176 posts)Ive known him since my second year, I think, of graduate school. He was a d friend of my mentor, the estimable Valerie Smith (the finest professor I have ever known), then a professor at UCLA, soon to be the director of the African American Studies Program at Princeton )where most of her students followed her), and eventually to Dean of Princeton, and, finally, to the President of Swarthmore College, one of the finest liberal arts colleges in the nation (and founded by the anti-abolitionist Quakers). Ms Smith is an amazing black woman whose teaching is only superseded by her attentiveness to her students.
With Prof Smith, I had the opportunity severeal times to have dinner with Prof Gates, who was utterly charming. He was one of the few superstars in academia who was genuinely interested in my work as a graduate student; one of the few who offered advice and direction; and one of the few whose letters and phone calls on my behalf resulted in my movement from plebeian graduate student to faculty member.
He's really a great man whose actions in front of the camera are exceeded by those behind it. Unlike other black academic superstars (like, for example, Prof West, who mostly engaged in sexual harassment and nasty emails to grad assistants), Gates was always there, willing to exchange ideas, to offer other modes of inquiry, and to offer telling but honest critique of the ideas I was pursuing.
So while my kudos go primarily to Val Smith, I owe a great deal to Prof Gates, too, who helped me hone my arguments and assist me in becoming yhe scholar I one day hope to be. He's a kind, generous man
MADem
(135,425 posts)to dine with him and get to know him. I think he's one of the "coolest dudes in school," myself!
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)My grandfather was a Jamaican Jewish mulatto (on his Jamaican papers and passport).
His attempt to "pass" as white tore our family apart with devastating consequences to this day.
I distinctly remember the day I was identified as bi-racial by a classmate when I was 10 yrs old. He "knew" my heritage long before I did.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)It's a fair question?
I was about that age when I had to deal with a bully referring to my mom as a *Nigger Lover* at least once a week.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I will never forget you describing her as a "black mother" because that's exactly what she became the second she had you and your brother. It's a shame it takes bravery to love who the hell you want to in this world.
*sigh*
I'm wondering though, can just regular people get in touch with these shows and get their ancestry mapped? Or do I need to be some "celebrity?"
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)But I think you have to be a celebrity to do this.
Or a Celebutante!
And yep - it takes the brave ones to stand tall.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)The young man who first called me bi-racial was a 10 yr old African American fellow classmate and a good friend even to this day 40 + years later. He says he'd known as soon as he saw me. It was the first thing he ever said to me during a middle school basketball game. I laughed when he said it, and we just became fast friends after that.
When I figured out the genealogy, he laughed again but refrained from reminding me he'd called it many years before.
Nobody ever bullied me.
PragmaticLiberal
(904 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I look forward to it because I loves me some Wanda Sykes!
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)YEA! It was wonderful! Thank you!
ms liberty
(8,572 posts)I think this show is amazing and is doing valuable work informing us all of our shared connections as humans and the history that makes us who we are today. Informative and entertaining, who could ask for more? mr liberty and I never miss it. I like it better than Who Do You Think You Are, although that one is pretty good too.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)I love the DNA part. I like science. Also, if you look above at PragmaticLiberal's post (#18), that episode also touches on some of Dr. Gates' history.
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)It actually compelled me and my husband to take a DNA test each, so we could tell our daughters what their racial heritage was.
The DNA test revealed that my Hubby who is Black,
and I, born to a Black father and White/French mother,
have children who are technically bi-racial (Exactly 50% African DNA)
That was kind of surprising.....but it appears that neither one of us is as Black as we each had always thought! LOL!
But then I was told that most American Black folks routinely have approx anywhere from 20%-35% European ancestry....so I guess that was true in my father's case, and in my husband's case.
Hubby did turn out to have that much sought-after Native American DNA....but only 5%!
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)I'm looking forward to viewing all of them!
I was born in Nigeria and emigrated here when I was a kid. I was fascinated while growing up about the mixture of particularly AAs and how many prominent families came about, and how some were proud of the mix of white and others defiantly kept their families as black as possible, as well as who was acceptable and not acceptable in each group based on ancestry. The reasons got too much to handle because I was just an African and it became too confusing and didn't mean that much to me, until the stories of slavery and colonialism.
One of my ancestors was stolen when he was about 9. My great-great-great-etcetera grandmother went insane and never recovered from the loss. His story is passed on so we never forget the one we lost. I hope he survived the trip to somewhere in the colonies and produced many kids no matter how much suffering they endured. I hope beyond hope that one day DNA will reunite our family. It could happen
Then came stories while growing up of my family's migration from the Middle East, on my dad's side, and a disease in the family called Moren's ulcer that proved that at one time we were people of the Sahara, on my mom's side. So the movement to sub-Sahara Africa is plausible, my grandmothers are distant cousins as well as the immediate family being Muslim at one point living in northern Nigeria. Then another story of the Chinaman ancestor but I believe thru some research that he might have been Filipino. Then before my dad died last month, I found out that we were in Kenya.
So many stories of migration that are hundreds or perhaps thousands of years old, all remembered by grios in the family. Before I thought I didn't need DNA to find more about who I am but it would be incredible to find out where we've been since time immemorial.