Interesting interview from Vice.com

[M0rpheus]

http://www.vice.com/read/we-interviewed-the-filmmaker-behind-a-project-that-interviews-over-1000-white-americans-about-their-views-on-race-432

Excerpt from the end of the interview.

What have you learned in the course of conducting all of these interviews that has surprised you?
This woman wrote me this really nice note and she said, she always was caught up in her sense of her own blackness and how it related to whiteness and that she felt her blackness was always being defined by whiteness. And that she didn’t realize how much whiteness was caught up in the same thing: that we define our whiteness by our relationship to blackness. And it’s always funny to me that whenever I ask white people to talk about being white, they immediately start talking about black people. Over and over again, I’d say, “I want to talk to you about race,” and they’d be like, “I want to tell you about black people.” It’s like clockwork.

And what I think people of color don’t necessarily understand is that whites are deeply conflicted and confused and don’t really know how to grapple with these things. They have never known how to talk about it, they don’t know how to process it, they feel like they’re not really part of this thing, and so it’s a really, really complicated situation. And the other thing that I’ve learned a lot is that white liberals have been some of the most vicious critics of this project. I mean, I’ve gotten a lot of hate from people of color who are like, “A white guy talking about white people, what the fuck?” and I’ve gotten people on the left saying, “Oh, yeah, we need another white guy giving white people a platform to talk about whiteness. That’s basically the world.”

Why do you think you’re getting that heat from the white left?
Because I think that the white left sees themselves outside of the racial paradigm. And I agree with Ta-Nehisi Coates. I opened my funding proposal with a quote from him that I can paraphrase from an Atlantic piece he wrote a few months ago: He says basically Obama-era progressives view racism as a problem within the system that needs prescriptions that either address inequality to help black people or change the system to make it more fair, whereas he sees white supremacy as the organizing principle of the United States of America. It always has been, it is today, and it always will be.

And I agree with that. And again, I don’t think that’s pejorative; I think that’s reality. Look at the fucking founding documents. White supremacy was the organizing principle. I think if you look at the world as it is, that’s a lot more interesting than looking at in some sort of fantasy.

[Behind the Aegis]

1. "Because I think that the white left sees themselves outside of the racial paradigm."

BAM! In your face with a can of mace!

It couldn't be more obvious than in conversations one sees at DU and other similar sites. Too many progressives (and some liberals) try to peddle the "post-racial" bullshit, though not to the level of those in the center and on the right. Personally, I see it as a form of soft racism.

"My race is human!"
"I am color blind!"
"Class/economics is the real divider!"

On the surface, none of these seem racist, but the underbelly of it is racism. They all ignore the history race played and still plays in our society. There is also the fear of being "wrong." I get the last one myself. However, if we learn from our mistakes, it helps in the process. Another part of the problem is too many whites try to define racism from our point of view, rather than looking at it from the POV of the affected.

It really isn't surprising many people hold some sort of racial prejudices; they are engrained deeply in our society. The subconscious level racism is the most difficult to overcome because it can be difficult to identify, and even more difficult to admit. A white L/P (liberals/progressives) knows calling a black person a "nigger" is a bad thing, horribly racist, yet the same person, may think there isn't anything wrong with repeatedly using the euphemism "N* word." After all, they aren't saying that word. They seem to have a disconnect as to what the euphemism really represents. It is one thing to use either to convey an idea about race or discuss certain events, but to act as if one is more "real" than the other is mistaken, IMO.

There are many types of racism and all are difficult to discuss for all involved. But, as white people we do have to take responsibility for understanding the world around us, and it, sadly, includes racism and discussions of race. I don't believe black folk have all the answers, why would they? But, as humans, we need to work together to find the answers if we are ever going to progress.

[YoungDemCA]

7. This. A million times this.

And it's really quite pathetic when you think about it-all of these self-described "progressives" and "liberals" who get up in arms about "Wall Street banksters" or "the 1 percent" but turn a willfully blind eye to their own (often-but not always-subtle and unconscious) racist attitudes.

Hard to take them seriously.

[MrScorpio]

9. Absofuckinglutely. nt

[Number23]

2. And we all see it every day. Especially here

Because I think that the white left sees themselves outside of the racial paradigm.

The "race isn't really an issue, it's all about class now but I'm not a racist" "leftist."

He says basically Obama-era progressives view racism as a problem within the system that needs prescriptions that either address inequality to help black people or change the system to make it more fair, whereas he sees white supremacy as the organizing principle of the United States of America. It always has been, it is today, and it always will be.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Interesting article; but I have some questions/comments ...

If whites are going to participate in changing the racial dynamic, they have to deal with their own shit first.

I completely agree; but, I do not know that this:

And they also have to be allowed to be fully vested participants in the conversation. If every time a white person opens their mouth about race someone yells, “You’re being a fucking racist!” at us, we can’t do it.

Is the prescription for them getting there. First, because PoC don't/ rarely say that ... despite what white folks hear, which is a big part of "dealing with their own sh!t", i.e., hearing what is said versus hearing what one hears. More over, I would like to know what's the speaker's recommended response for when white folks say that "really dumb sh!t"?

the refrain I hear is, “We as black Americans are so tired of explaining race to white people.” So, I’m like, OK, I’ll take that on! And then I get a lot of hate from people saying, “Well, who the fuck are you? Why are you giving white people a platform to talk about this shit?”

I agree with both of these positions ... I am tired of explaining race to people that want to be "fully vested participants in the conversation" and wish to be free to say, unchallenged, "really dumb sh!t." That's not a conversation, that's a series of concurrent monologues.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. I may have some answers.

Is the prescription for them getting there. First, because PoC don't/ rarely say that ... despite what white folks hear, which is a big part of "dealing with their own sh!t", i.e., hearing what is said versus hearing what one hears. More over, I would like to know what's the speaker's recommended response for when white folks say that "really dumb sh!t"?

Actually, I have heard that comment and other versions many times, and it isn't always a matter of "white selective hearing." Though, it hasn't been said to me directly, it is said. Sometimes, it is simply a way of shutting down a conversation the other person doesn't want to have (usually, again). There are times though, it is true, it isn't said or even implied, yet it, what ever the message, is taken as "you are a racist." Sometimes, it can simply be a black person disagreeing with a white person, and the white person becomes defensive and feels s/he is being attacked as a racist. When a group has been asked HUNDREDS (and I am being conservative) of times, the SAME question, it gets old, tiresome, and demonstrates a lack of understanding which is almost dumbfounding. Do you know how many times I have been asked "So, who is the woman in the relationship?" Given that I am gay, and have always been involved with men, there is no woman. OH...or this gem, which I had to field recently, from a very good friend, "So they have done "the test" to rule it out, right?" Meaning a HIV test, screening for AIDS. Why was I asked? Because I have been sick for a long time with a stomach ailment. But, it is offensive to think/suggest every time a gay man gets sick, it is HIV.

As for fielding 'dumb shit' questions, I think it has more to do with you, your audience, and the situation. Personally, I usually use sarcasm, sometimes, I get all passive-aggressive and turn the stupidity back on them; it usually drives the point home. Some people are a lost cause and knowing it really can help reduce your irritation. Sadly, sometimes, you just have to let it slide. That's the best I can do for your question in that regards.

I agree with both of these positions ... I am tired of explaining race to people that want to be "fully vested participants in the conversation" and wish to be free to say, unchallenged, "really dumb sh!t." That's not a conversation, that's a series of concurrent monologues.

Trust me, I understand your frustration. Though not AA, I am gay and Jewish, and I get my fair share of dumb shit slung my way, and I get really frustrated. It is worse when they claim to want a conversation, but really don't, they simply want to tell you what their concerns are, and have no use for your education or your POV. This project has some merits in my opinion. Though it provides an unchallenged platform, it really provides an insight into what white people are really feeling and thinking without a filter, and it is then, a true conversation can take place. Of course, there are those progressives, and some liberals, you automatically think they can't be racist because they are progressive, and therefore shut you down when challenged. To be honest, they can be even more frustrating than the brain-dead troglodyte racist. An educated bigot is one of the worst persons to encounter. They have already convinced themselves of their "okayness."

Now, stick with me, though it may make you spit up a bit, but white people are also disadvantaged in this area. What I mean by that statement, is the only education we get about black folk and their history is during the 'obligatory' "Black History Month", which includes a poorly constructed bulletin board, a few films, and maybe a speaker or two...and that's it! I am sure this will come as no surprise to you, but ask random white people to name 10 famous black people, exclude actors and sports figures. Most will struggle. So, one can't expect white people to understand race and racism when it isn't even taught, except for the "slavery was bad, MLK, Malcom X, civil rights, and now, Obama. It is a big reason racism still thrives because it is rarely addressed in a way that allows for a learning curve.

As I have said before, sadly, the responsibility of educating white people on racism usually falls to black folk. It happens in the case of other minorities as well. It would be wonderful to see overall education to be more inclusive, but it will take time, more than should be needed, honestly. Every now and again, you will come across those of us, like myself, who take it upon ourselves to seek education, but even we still need black friends to further our education through their personal experiences. If you were to come into our home, you would see all kinds of black culture reflected in our movies, our books, our viewing habits, and pictures. As educated as I am, I still have one problem, I am not black and I never will be, so I am always going to have a need to have someone with...let's call it, practical experience, to explain some things to me. However, I agree with you and the article, "white people need to deal with their own shit." That includes educating ourselves, helps eliminate a number of stupid questions, and we need to listen, not hear, what the concerns of those affected by racism are, as opposed to being preoccupied with our own concerns about racism.

I know your questions may have been rhetorical, but I felt it provided an opportunity to expand on a few things.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. That you for responding ...

That was great! We can have a conversation; but not right now ... I'm a tad hung over ... but wanted to acknowledge you response.

[Jamaal510]

4. K&R

Will see later.

[MrScorpio]

8. I posted the article on the Discnst

And it eventually evolved into talking about black people. http://www.discussionist.com/101648779

They can't help themselves.