Vatican to Polish prosecutor: we don't extradite

[Warren Stupidity]

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican has told Polish prosecutors that its former ambassador to the Dominican Republic, under investigation for alleged sex abuse, is covered by diplomatic immunity and that the Vatican doesn't extradite its citizens.

The spokesman for Warsaw's provincial prosecutor's office, Przemyslaw Nowak, said prosecutors investigating Archbishop Jozef Wesolowski asked the Vatican for information about his legal status.

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/01/11/3200994/vatican-to-polish-prosecutor-we.html#storylink=cpy

[skepticscott]

1. But...but..Francis blahblahblah

hopeychangeylovehimsomuchcapitalismchangefeetwashinggodhessohumblecautiouslyoptimistichopechangewonderfuldifferentpoorpeopleblahblahblah.

[rug]

2. From your link:

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi has denied Rome was shielding Wesolowski and that the Vatican was cooperating with the investigations while conducting its own probes.

The spokesman for Warsaw's provincial prosecutor's office, Przemyslaw Nowak, told The Associated Press that Polish prosecutors had recently asked the Vatican for information about Wesolowski's legal status as part of its own investigation. He said the Vatican had confirmed that Wesolowski is a citizen of the Vatican city state, that the Vatican doesn't extradite its citizens and that as a nuncio, or Holy See ambassador, Wesolowski enjoys full diplomatic immunity.

Lombardi confirmed Saturday that the Vatican's embassy in Warsaw had responded to the request, though he declined to confirm the legal principles Nowak said were outlined in the letter. Lombardi as well as Nowak stressed that the Polish were not seeking Wesolowski's extradition but merely information about his legal status.

Lombardi did confirm that Wesolowski was being investigated by two separate Vatican tribunals for alleged canonical crimes and violations of the Vatican city state's criminal code. Canon law convictions can result in being defrocked; convictions in the Vatican's civil tribunals can carry jail terms.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. So you are defending this crap?

Fascinating.

[rug]

4. No. I'm clarifying the crap you posted.

Predictable.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. So clarify where you stand on this: anything wrong with what the Vatican has done here?

[rug]

8. Have you wondered why Poland is seeking extradition for crimes in the Dominican Republic?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Several countries do have laws allowing the prosecution of their citizens for child 'sex tourism'

carried out in other countries (eg the UK and the USA); perhaps Poland does too. And the article says it's not clear if the Vatican's new law can be applied retroactively, so no prosecution may be possible in the Vatican. It seems the Poles are trying to work out if there's a chance of extradition, perhaps before opening a full investigation.

[rug]

20. The reporting leaves a lot to be desired.

But your comments are plausible.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Wow. How about: "this is wrong".

[rug]

23. Wow. How about some facts?

Do you have any beyond a headline?

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Like the fact that after the scandal broke, and before legal action was initiated

Wesolowski was conveniently recalled to the Vatican?

Wesolowski was whisked out of the Dominican Republic and sent to Rome once local journalist Nuria Piera uncovered the scandal, which could also be linked to another Polish priest, (Padre Alberto) Wojciech Gil, charged with pedophilia in Juncalito, a town in a rugged region of Santiago province.

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2014/1/10/50183/Vatican-wont-turn-in-bishop-charged-with-molesting-Dominican-boys

How about them facts? But please do continue to make excuses. After all it isn't like the RCC has a history of obstruction or anything.

[rug]

26. Here's a fact for you.

Diplomatic immunity would halt any prosecution whether he was there or not.

I know you're jonesing to bash this religion. If you use some facts it won't be so obvious.

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Yes rug, he may indeed have immunity. That really isn't the point.

[rug]

28. A point based on prejudgment is a bias.

[struggle4progress]

13. Perhaps it is the principle of diplomatic immunity that you find offensive here? Or perhaps

the fact that some state typically never extradite their own citizens? I understand that Brazil, Israel, and Venezuela are on that list, for example.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Or perhaps the fact that this creep was whisked away to the Vatican

in yet another in a long series of RCC obstructionism with respect to their chronic problem with pedophilia.

[struggle4progress]

25. As I understand the sequence, Wesolowski was removed as nuncio to the DR on 21 Aug 13, and

allegations emerged in early September, at a time when he was vacationing somewhere outside of the DR, after which the official investigation in the DR began. Since the Cardinal Law case some years ago, of course, it is natural to suspect the Vatican of whisking folk away to protect them from prosecution, but the timeline here may not support that claim

Moreover, Wesolowski as nuncio might have diplomatic immunity: I cannot be sure as I do not know the formal arrangements between the DR and the Vatican

... Wesolowski .. was the Vatican's representative in the country from 2008 until he was removed Aug. 21 ...

... On 2 September 2013 local television-stations in the Dominican Republic reported about Wesołowski and his possible involvement in child abuse ... Two days after the television reports, on 4 September 2013, Dominican Republic authorities started an investigation into Wesołowski ...

... Wojciech was in Poland on vacation when the allegations surfaced and has not returned to the Dominican Republic ...

[edhopper]

5. So basically

they are giving him asylum.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Which is exactly how this story is being reported elsewhere.

The fact that people here are explaining it to us is repulsive.

[rug]

9. I don't know exactly what's going on here but international law principles are involved.

I prefer some more facts than are in the article before drawing conclusions.

[edhopper]

10. I would like to see

"We are investigating ourselves and following the Polish investigation. If the allegations are true the full law will be applied and no special treatment will be afforded for such a crime"

[rug]

17. You'll find the penalties somewhere in here.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/guide/nations/holysee.php

[edhopper]

29. Okay

but I have little faith in the Vatican's policing of their own. We shall see.

[rug]

30. Me either but you never know.

[okasha]

11. Correct me if I'm wrong

but isn't it routine for one jurisdiction conducting an investigation of an accused to decline to ship the suspect off to another jurisdiction?

[el_bryanto]

12. The problem is that the vatican isn't seen as being an honest broker

when it comes to these sorts of issues. They don't want publicity on these sorts of cases.

Bryant

[okasha]

14. That's a problem of perception.

I'm asking specifically about common legal practice.

Texas, for example, will not extradite a person under investigation out of state if the out-of-state charge is a lesser one. There's no indication in this article about why Poland wants this guy.

[rug]

15. That's usually governed by what's in the extradition treaty, if both parties are signatories.

Scandinavian counties, for example will extradite to the U.S. for some offenses but will not extradite anyone for any offense that carries the death penalty. The U.S. will not extradite anyone to a country that does not provide minimal due process.

It gets convoluted but there are lists out there of countries who will or will not extradite to which countries for what reasons.

[okasha]

16. Thanks.

Mexico will not extradite to the US anyone who is eligible for the death penalty if found guilty. So possibly the Vatican has no extradition treaties with other states? Or perhaps with states where--formerly or currently--a Catholic could be guilty of a state crime just by being Catholic?

[rug]

18. I don't know the particular reason here.

Maybe the answer will emerge from the din.

[840high]

31. Thanks for clarification.

[rug]

32. Update: Vatican moves to try Polish archbishop Josef Wesolowski for abuse

JAMES BONE | The Times
January 14, 2014 12:00AM

A POLISH archbishop could become the first cleric to be put on trial by the Vatican for alleged child abuse. It was announced at the weekend that Josef Wesolowski was under criminal investigation as a citizen of the Holy See.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/vatican-moves-to-try-polish-archbishop-josef-wesolowski-for-abuse/story-fnb64oi6-1226800961540#

The rest is behind a paywall.

[cbayer]

33. Ah, it gets more complicated.