Does God work for the CIA?

[SecularMotion]

The arrest and imprisonment in North Korea of US citizen Kenneth Bae raises once again the issue of the use of religion and humanitarianism as covert vehicles for furthering US hegemony.

The controversy surrounding former NBA star Dennis Rodman’s “basketball diplomacy” in North Korea centers around his apparent refusal to “speak on behalf” of Kenneth Bae, a US citizen imprisoned in North Korea for what Pyongyang has referred to as “crimes against the state.” Naturally, the Western media narrative on the Bae case is that he is a devout Christian who simply may have broken North Korean laws regarding religion and religious paraphernalia.

As reported by The Telegraph, Bae and his group were using his tourist agency as a vehicle for proselytizing their Christian beliefs in the stridently atheist country. Participants in Bae’s group admitted to smuggling Bibles into the country, singing Christian songs and, in reference to the biblical story of Jericho, “praying for the walls to come down.” Whether one disagrees with a religious ideology being criminalized, it is an incontrovertible fact that Bae and his groups committed what Pyongyang considers to be a very serious crime.

While the imprisonment of an American in North Korea is already a story, his arrest has aroused suspicions in certain international circles that Bae, like so many before him, was in fact working with the CIA or other US intelligence agency. While it is impossible to say definitively whether Bae was in North Korea operating a legitimate tour business, or was simply using that as a cover for covert espionage, the incident again reminds us of the long-standing, sordid relationship between the US intelligence community and religious/humanitarian groups and institutions.

http://rt.com/op-edge/north-korea-usa-cia-639/

[hrmjustin]

1. Is there any proof to these "suspicions"?

[cbayer]

2. It's RT. They don't need any stinking proof.

Unfortunately I can't get the author's website to open at all.

[hrmjustin]

3. I never trust RT as a source for anything.

Maybe they should justnleave tths guy alone and let the diplomats do there job to get this guy home.

[cbayer]

5. The author appears to be a conspiracy theorist of the nth degree.

He writes for all the "right" sites.

[SecularMotion]

4. Spreading the gospel in North Korea

For nearly two years, Kenneth Bae, a father of three and an American citizen, ran a successful travel company offering tours of North Korea.

But as the 44-year-old passed through the Wonjong border crossing in November 2012, he was suddenly arrested. Convicted of "hostile acts" towards North Korea, he is currently serving 15 years in a labour camp.

What exactly happened remains a mystery. Mr Bae had taken at least 15 other tour groups into North Korea without incident. However, it seems clear that his mission to spread the Christian gospel was at least one major factor that landed him in trouble.

Mr Bae is not alone in using his company, Nations Tour, to evangelise inside North Korea. While precise numbers are impossible to pin down, the network of well-financed front companies, missions operating as businesses, is extensive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10451224/Spreading-the-gospel-in-North-Korea.html

[cbayer]

6. This is a much more reasonable take on this story.

[SecularMotion]

8. How can you make that judgement if you can't even access the article in the OP?

From Post #2

Unfortunately I can't get the author's website to open at all.

[cbayer]

9. I can easily get to the RT site. I can't get to the author's website.

stopimperialism.com does not open for me at all.

[SecularMotion]

10. I still don't understand your comment

The article from the Telegraph is linked and referenced in the article from RT.

The article from the Telegraph explains how Christian groups use "front companies" like travel agencies to gain entry and proselytize inside North Korea.

The article from RT raises suspicions about Bae possibly being involved with espionage for the CIA and provides facts about the CIA using religious/humanitarian groups for espionage in the past to support those suspicions.

How is one article more reasonable than the other?

[cbayer]

11. The Telegraph article talks about this particular case and how this particular

person used a travel company as a front to evangelize in North Korea.

The other article goes far, far beyond that. It makes some pretty overtly out there claims about the CIA and US Intelligence and claims that this case was a part of that and that it is pervasive. He really has nothing to back that up and is an extreme conspiracy theorist.

Do you see the difference?

Bae doesn't work for the CIA. He's an extreme evangelist who took a huge risk to spread the word and got nailed.


Or do you really think he's a front for the CIA?

[SecularMotion]

14. It's possible he's involved with the CIA

As stated in the article

While it is impossible to say definitively whether Bae was in North Korea operating a legitimate tour business, or was simply using that as a cover for covert espionage, the incident again reminds us of the long-standing, sordid relationship between the US intelligence community and religious/humanitarian groups and institutions.

[cbayer]

16. Yes, that is the position of the RT writer.

I think he's really out there and don't for a minute think this guy was working for the CIA.

The writer is a crank. Look at his other stuff.

This piece probably would be locked in GD and sent to CS, FWIW.

[hrmjustin]

7. NK has one of the worst records on religious rights.

Shame on them and I hope they release him soon.

[cbayer]

12. While I agree, shame on him as well.

He knew what the risks were.

[hrmjustin]

13. I disagree. All he did was spread the gospel and that is a human right iMO.

[cbayer]

17. It's completely illegal in North Korea. He has martyred himself...

and for what?

[hrmjustin]

18. He would say to spread the gospel.

[cbayer]

19. I understand that and while I agree it's a human right,

I also don't think it's generally ok to go into another country and knowingly break their laws.

Of course, there are exceptions to this. I just don't think this one rose to that level.

[hrmjustin]

20. To me itis ok. Their laws are imorral and must be challenged.

We don't have much leverage with the, so this is one way to do it.

[cbayer]

21. Well, I guess it might shine some light on the problem.

I am sure that any believers in N. Korea live in agonizing fear, if they are allowed to live at all.

But I'm not sure he has really accomplished much.

Had he come from the inside, I would have much more sympathy for him. Had he stated his goal was to change Korea, I would have more respect.

But it looks like all he really wanted to do was convert - dangerous for both him and those he might convert.

[hrmjustin]

22. He is not above criticism and I am sure we disagree on certain theological questions.

But I believe any country that does not allow religious freedom is evil and should be challenged.

[cbayer]

23. We don't disagree Justin.

[hrmjustin]

24. I know.

[cleanhippie]

27. That's easy to say sitting in the comfort of ones own home.

[hrmjustin]

28. Yes that is true but I support people who put their lives at risk for this.

[hrmjustin]

15. Although he had to know the risks.

[struggle4progress]

25. "I don't like evangelists. And I don't like the CIA. So I figure evangelists must work for the CIA!"

[Iggo]

26. Totally.

[NeoGreen]

29. The real question may be...

... is the CIA god?

(/sarcasm off)

(Edited to make "sarcasm off" visible)