Atheists debate: Can Christians support LGBTQ rights? Part 1

[rug]

Chris Stedman | Jan 16, 2014

With marriage equality efforts in Oklahoma, Utah, and elsewhere making headlines this month, the intersection of LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer) rights and religion has been a hot topic of discussion among atheists.

While many Christians in the United States support same-sex marriage—including, for example, nearly 60% of all American Catholics and over 50% of white evangelical Protestants under the age of 35—some atheists have recently debated whether Christians can truly support marriage equality.

Last week, this discussion received broader attention due to a series of tweets written by Dave Muscato, Public Relations Director for American Atheists, which were published by the official American Atheists Twitter account. Among the claims put forth in the tweets: “if you’re a Christian and an LGBTQ supporter, you’re doing one of them wrong.”

As a queer person and a former evangelical Christian—and an interfaith activist who works alongside many LGBTQ and ally Christians—the ensuing conversation caught my attention, and it has since been a topic of discussion among a number of atheist activists. On Monday of this week Michael DeDora—Director of Public Policy for the Center for Inquiry—challenged Muscato’s position in a post on The Moral Perspective.

http://chrisstedman.religionnews.com/2014/01/16/atheists-debate-can-christians-support-lgbtq-rights-part-one/

[hrmjustin]

1. Of course we can truly support Lgbt rights.

[cbayer]

2. Dave Muscato has no right to tell anyone what they can and can't support.

But he certainly has the playbook down.

Smug, offensive and entirely wrong.

He's the public relations director? They need to rethink that.

[struggle4progress]

4. Evidently he is more interested in "telling all Christians that what they believe about the entirety

that what they believe about the entirety of reality is wrong" than in improving public perception of his employer, American Atheists

[shenmue]

3. Yes

Christians can.

[okasha]

5. This is the same org

that pronounced the Holocaust "too important to be left to the Jews," right?

More left feet than a millipede.

[rug]

6. Yes, the Holocaust Memorial in Ohio.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2013/07/the-very-worst-of-the-atheist-movement-on-display-major-atheist-orgs-attack-star-of-david-holocaust-memorial/

[Behind the Aegis]

8. That is a very good article about a nasty attack.

I hadn't even heard about this situation.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. Wow

Talk about completely twisting things.

Some other versions of the story:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/26/atheist-activist-on-ohio-holocaust-memorial-its-important-that-we-not-give-the-holocaust-to-just-the-jews/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/26/dave-silverman-appears-on-fox-news-to-debate-jewish-star-on-ohios-holocaust-memorial/

[LostOne4Ever]

10. That is not what David Silverman said

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/26/atheist-activist-on-ohio-holocaust-memorial-its-important-that-we-not-give-the-holocaust-to-just-the-jews/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/26/dave-silverman-appears-on-fox-news-to-debate-jewish-star-on-ohios-holocaust-memorial/

And the way you misquoted him takes his comments way way way out of context.

[rug]

12. "It’s important that we not give the Holocaust to just the Jews"

[LostOne4Ever]

13. Thank you

That is what he said!

[rug]

14. It is but it's not far off from what she said.

I understand his context but it's a pretty obnoxious statement.

At the time he said it, I noted they'd gladly give it back.

[LostOne4Ever]

15. They are similar in wording

But the meaning between the two is vastly different.

One would be a bigoted statement and the other is actually inclusive. Millions of non-jews (homosexuals, gypsies, serbs, etc) were also killed by the Nazis and they deserve to remembered just as much. Why this is such a controversial statement is beyond me. Does their tragedy deserve less recognition? Was their blood not as red, their pain less severe, their lives of less value?

Even worse, some people seem to think its fine and dandy to compare gays to nazis IN SPITE of the FACT that homosexuals were rounded up and murdered by the Nazis too. A couple of examples:

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/russian-head-of-2018-fifa-world-cup-compares-gays-to-nazis/news/2013/08/13/73100#.UttfDLRMGpo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/04/gay-rights-nazis-bryan-fischer-_n_3862548.html

Things like this make it pretty clear to me that its important that we remember and honor the other victims of that horror as well.

As for whether or not its obnoxious probably depends on how much you agree or disagree with their argument. As a staunch advocate for separation of church and state I don't see it as being obnoxious. However, due to the sensitivity on this issue and how easy it is to distort any disagreement as being bigoted it is far from the top of the list of culture wars battles I would have chosen.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. Yes, they certainly can, and ARE!

Bigotry is so ugly.

[LostOne4Ever]

9. Depends on what one means by Christian

To many a Christian is anyone who calls themselves a follower of Yeshua of Nazareth. To others it means not only following his teaching but believing that he was a divine being. Others go further and say one must say that Jesus is the living incarnation of the ONE TRUE GOD. And so on and so on.

I tend to use the first definition so in that regard I would say yes they can.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. He was quite clear. If you believe the bible is the inerrant word of god

then there is a clear and obvious contradiction between that belief and support of LGBT rights.

[Rob H.]

17. There are Christians here in the Bible Belt

who will likely never support LGBT rights--the Southern Baptists spring immediately to mind, given the Southern Baptist Convention's stated opposition to same-sex marriage, gay and lesbian clergy, gay-straight alliances in schools and legislation that would ban workplace discrimination because of sexual orientation. They even push "conversion therapy" despite there being little credible evidence that it actually works and plenty of evidence that it's actively harmful.

It also seems as if they've gotten even more socially and politically conservative in the last decade or so, as mind-blowing as that sounds.

[cbayer]

18. I don't doubt that, but they are by no means all christians.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. right because that was not the argument made, but you know that.