Ke$ha Talks Vaginal Exorcism ... "Dead entities cling to me" ... (Rolling Stone | October 2013)

[struggle4progress]

By Eric Spitznagel
October 24, 2013 2:35 PM ET

... Season two, which premieres on MTV next Wednesday, October 30th, carries out the same Ke$ha traditions. In the first episode ... she talks about her one night stand with a ghost ... After getting a ghost meter, she makes this startling discovery. "Either my vagina is haunted," she says, "or I'm pregnant with a ghost baby." She has a ghost exorcism, which she discussed on Jimmy Kimmel last week, which prompts her to say things on the show like "You do not have permission to be here! Get out of my vagina!" ...

Rolling Stone spoke with Ke$ha about her allegedly haunted vagina, the Illuminati, her continuing fondness of serial killers, and more ...

What's involved in a vaginal exorcism? What did we not see?

There's a lot of screaming and grabbing energies and she was talking in tongues. She was speaking Latin or something, I'm not really sure. It was definitely another language, and she was making all sorts of crazy noises. At one point she started choking ...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ke-ha-chats-vaginal-exorcism-and-dr-luke-controversy-20131024

4 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	She's just another example of the incredible harm religion does nowadays
	0 (0%)
	Some of us had been wondering what was wrong with her
	2 (50%)
	I got a used ghost meter at Amazon: it's a scientific live-saver!
	0 (0%)
	Well, there went another two minutes I'll never get back
	2 (50%)
	Today's media is producing a generation better educated than any that came before
	0 (0%)
	This is really courageous of her: I'm glad she could get help
	0 (0%)
	People, who accuse her of attention-whoring, are just jealous cuz they lack her talent
	0 (0%)
	We should hold her personally responsible for spreading these stone-age ideas
	0 (0%)
	Meh. Different people laugh at different things
	0 (0%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[cbayer]

1. OMG! Who is this person??

[trotsky]

4. Why do you get to laugh at someone else's beliefs, cbayer? n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

6. it is incredibly insulting to see somebody's beliefs mocked like this.

[trotsky]

7. I don't understand how some people think it's acceptable.

I mean, if they can't prove her beliefs are wrong, they should just accept them as another way of looking at the world. Her beliefs are true for her, and that's all that matters. We have no right to mock or belittle.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. This person.

[enlightenment]

2. You left off -

"What on earth are you talking about?"

[hrmjustin]

3. Lmfao!

[trotsky]

5. Can you prove her beliefs are wrong? n/t

[struggle4progress]

9. I suggest you start a discussion in the Skepticism, Science & Pseudoscience Group on ghost-meters!

Here's a link you can use to get started:

[trotsky]

10. Can you prove her beliefs are wrong? n/t

[struggle4progress]

11. You should start a GD thread on whether she's part of the Illuminati conspiracy!

Here's a link you could use:

[trotsky]

12. Can you prove her beliefs are wrong? n/t

[Shivering Jemmy]

53. Can you prove she exists?

Making fun of her beliefs is only a problem if she actually exists.


I'm not convinced she does.

[trotsky]

54. Touché!

LOL

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Other: "People who accuse her of attention-whoring are right, and she learned from the masters

of organised religion". I notice her chart positions aren't what they used to be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kesha_discography

Of course, using the dollar sign in her stage name is admirably honest. I'm glad to see an article showing that the Pope and a pop star on the slide have something in common, intellectually.

[cbayer]

13. What do you mean she learned from the masters of organized religion.

Who would that be?

[struggle4progress]

14. Maybe muriel has simply confused Jeffrey Dahmer with an organized religion

It happens

[cbayer]

15. Or Madonna and Queen?

Those appear to be her inspirations and are masters of turning pop performance art into $$.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Other people who make up stories of possession and exorcism for fun and profit

You know, priests, nutty pastors, witchfinders - those sort of people.

[cbayer]

17. And all the entertainers that use this kind of thing on stage and have

absolutely nothing to do with religion?

I think it is much more likely she learned from them than from the clergy.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. I'm not sure what kind of entertainment you go to, but "my vagina was haunted" is a new one to me

But, yes, people like John Edward, Sylvia Browne - although not strictly religious, they have made an awful lot of money from this kind of thing, and I don't regard them as harmless (and not entertaining, to me - though clearly a lot of people do/did like them).

[cbayer]

19. She learned from the entertainment shock masters. They are her heroes.

From my reading about her, she will do and say anything that will get her the media attention she wants and sell some records.

You are not familiar with these kinds of entertainers? I'm surprised.

She has no religious background that I can find and attaches herself to no religion.

I think you just saw an opportunity to smear religion as having something to do with this person's shock show. It has nothing to do with it except she has taken a single word from the vocabulary.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I thought struggle4progress did the 'smearing' very well, putting 'vaginal exorcism' in the title

to sensationalise exorcism and attract hits. You can't expect us to discuss any of this 'respectfully' with an OP like this.

"She has no religious background that I can find and attaches herself to no religion."

And yet, a Religion Group host has started a thread about this in the Religion Group; I expect you're not going to alert on it for an SoP violation. It is, let's face it, intimately (in every sense of the word) connected with religion.

What's involved in a vaginal exorcism? What did we not see?

There's a lot of screaming and grabbing energies and she was talking in tongues. She was speaking Latin or something, I'm not really sure. It was definitely another language, and she was making all sorts of crazy noises. At one point she started choking ...

Exorcism, talking in tongues, a lot of screaming - this is very religious. The Latin hints she's thinking of Roman Catholicism. Perhaps she's taking all from The Exorcist, but it's worth remembering the RC church said that was based on a real case. And uses news about exorcism in its own press releases: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218106583

[struggle4progress]

27. I cut and paste the title of the Rolling Stone article

[cbayer]

29. Take it up with s4p.

Unlike others in this group that repeatedly speak in the 1st person plural, I don't speak for anyone but myself.

Now about that cannibal song.

[trotsky]

31. "I don't speak for anyone but myself. " Oh, you don't?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=110074

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=109821

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=110063

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=110126

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=110006

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=109736

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=109448

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=109332

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108903

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108843

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108837

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108804

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108795

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108600

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108544

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108445

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=108219

For claiming to only speak for yourself, you sure use "we" a lot as well. I wonder what's up with that?

[PassingFair]

20. LOTS of clergy people believe in da Debil and exorcism.

Ke$ha is in rehab now, btw.

[cbayer]

21. Yes they do, but she didn't get it from them.

Glad to hear she is in rehab. I hope she gets the help she seeks.

[PassingFair]

22. How do you know where she got it from?

"Hot and dangerous
If you’re one of us, then roll with us
Cause we make the hipsters fall in love
When we’ve got our hot-pants on and up
And yes of course we does, we’re running this town just like a club
And no, you don’t wanna mess with us
Got Jesus on my necklace"

Religion, whether organized or tribal, is rife with demonic possession and exorcism.
She didn't invent this out of nowhere.

[cbayer]

25. No, she didn't invent it, she just used it.

But you are right, she did say she had Jesus on her necklace!!

It must be religion!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. You think she came up with the concept of exorcism independently?

And happened to pick the same word for it that Christianity uses? Wow, that's some coincidence you're asking us to swallow there ...

[cbayer]

26. Who is this "us" you refer to?

No, she didn't come up with it independently and she used it for it's shock value..

She also sings about being a cannibal!

Certainly we can find some religion to tie that into to.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. 'us' is PassingFair and me

I've told you before, cbayer, you have to remember that your posts on an internet forum are visible to more people than the person you reply to (and I don't just mean the NSA). That's rather the point of a forum.

Good to see you've dropped the pretence that she didn't get the idea of exorcism from religion. It was beneath you.

[cbayer]

33. Oh, I didn't know you were speaking for PassingFair, but it doesn't surprise me.

Of course I know that I am speaking to anyone who might read my post. I only question why others feel they can speak for whoever those people might be.

Please stop with the backhanded put downs. It's beneath you, muriel.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. We've done this before - you don't understand the idea of subject and object

'us' is the object of 'expect'. 'You', in that sentence, ie cbayer, is the subject. So when I said "you expect us to believe...', I am in no way speaking for PassingFair; but your reply was to him/her. The minimum audience for your post was PassingFair and the other person that I know has read it, thanks to you putting it on a public forum - me. That makes the 1st person plural accusative the correct pronoun to use.

Most people know this without analysing it, but since you are apparently unfamiliar with normal English today, you need it spelled out for you. You can consider this an open put-down, since you are being incredibly tedious today.

[cbayer]

36. I'm confused. You just said you were speaking about you and PassingFair when you said "us".

At any rate, it happens all the time here. I just like to clarify who the person is speaking for when they use the 1st person plural.

Again with the put-downs. So interesting. I never see you do this unless it has to do with religion.

Initially it came as quite a surprise to me, but I've rather grown to expect it

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. What has confused you?

Have you, perhaps, not grasped the difference between speaking about someone and speaking for them?

I find your posts in this group sometimes require replies that may seem blunt to you, or 'put-downs'. I think you often design your posts while expecting such replies, so that you can act hurt; it's something several people are guilty of in this group, perhaps me too. But I think you can see your behaviour in this group is passive-aggressive, while it isn't elsewhere on DU. That's why the response to you is different here.

[cbayer]

40. Blunt is a rather euphemistic word, I think.

It's just a side of you that I was not familiar with. I do not expect these kinds of replies at all. Insulting my inelligence or ability to comprehend, when you personally know that these are not areas in which there is any particular concern in my case, seems more than "blunt"..

I like your dry humor, your British take on things, your ability to use language in a way that makes your point with an extra sharp tip. But I don't like being put down by you.

And as you probably know, I don't like psychiatric terms being used to describe people's way of communicating or thinking that are not pathological. I'm not sure that you are using passive-agressive in the same way I would, but that's a common use in this group.

I post here in good faith. I may make mis-steps and there has certainly been a concerted effort to paint me as something I am not. But i don't "act hurt", even though there are frequent attempts which appear to have as their goal to hurt me.

You behave differently in this room as well. That is probably because we both have a point of view on these topics and they are wildly different, but we both feel very strongly about them.

I don't like that talking with you becomes unpleasant. It would be my sincere wish that we could resolve that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. You returning to this "who is 'us'" is a typical example of your behaviour

Obviously you are intelligent enough to have understood that 'us' was an entirely appropriate choice of word. But you have this idea that it's a 'good debating tactic' to claim that someone is talking for others, and so you've used it at least twice, rather than attempting to carry on a conversation. When you do it the second time, I think it's because you want to get the same reply - having to talk down to you as if you don't understand English - so that you can act hurt. I wouldn't say that's pathological with you; more likely, you do it with the full knowledge of how the tactic will work. If you insist, I will say you are pretending to be passive-aggressive. In that instance, I don't believe you were posting 'in good faith' at all.

[cbayer]

42. It is a rhetorical device.

There are people who post here who take the position that they speak for others when they don't. Some have even overtly taken the position that they speak for everyone who frequents the room. Since I think no one here can speak for anyone but themselves, I am curious as to what they mean and try to make the point by asking the question.

That's not passive-agressive, by the way. That's pretty damn direct.

You give me way too much credit for the ability to be manipulative or think something through to that extent. I really don't operate that way.

Anyway, if you feel the best way to address me is by putting me down and that I don't post in good faith, then I don't see much point in having a discussion with you.

But you've got me wrong.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. "rhetorical device" - being the device of diverting and derailing a discussion. nt.

[cbayer]

45. Er, that's not the definition.

[Warren Stupidity]

46. it was a joke, but carry on.

[struggle4progress]

28. The article suggests many of her ideas come from her conversations with her mother

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. So why didn't you post this in the Parenting Group?

If you think exorcism is something people pick up from their parents, you should talk about it there.

[struggle4progress]

35. Is it your theory, that those who want to use every instance of the word "exorcism"

as prima facie evidence of religious influences are entitled to post those ideas in this group, but that if I wanted to counter-argue (say) that many ideas about "exorcism" result from commercial media productions, then I should do so only when posting in the Media group?

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. As you know, people will judge a thread from the OP - especially for a poll

If you wanted to counter-argue that her ideas about "exorcism" come from her mother, then you should have mentioned that before post #28. At least this now explains your odd "Today's media is producing a generation better educated than any that came before" option; but I would point out that exorcism was publicised, by Christians and others, long before Kesha was born.

[struggle4progress]

43. The popular ideas seem mainly to come from the commercial entertainment industry

There is in the US at least a long and constant stream of films with exorcism themes, none of which has any particularly close correspondence to mainstream theology, going back at least as far as The Exorcist, forty years ago; that was a novel, then a film, then an entire media franchise -- and as a commercial venture, it was successful: the film alone seems to have grossed over $400 million to date

There are currently a number of such films released to US cinemas every year

[rug]

37. The crabs must have horns.

[In_The_Wind]

47. Indeed

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Well played

[TygrBright]

48. Is that better than a clitoral exorcism? I can't keep them straight... or... ne'mind. N/T

[okasha]

49. Too funny.

A performer putting on a performance. Are we supposed to believe that she actually spoke in Latin, or that the writer is enough of a linguist to recognize it when he cannot distinguish between "another language," and glossolalia?

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. The quote is Kesha saying her 'healer' spoke in 'Latin or something'

She is saying that it was 'another language' (ie not English), but not speaking in tongues - the difference being, I would say, that speaking in tongues is unstructured babbling, while, even if you don't know a language, you can often hear there is structure in it (and people hear plenty of Latin phrases anyway, so they might half-recognise something). It's quite believable that Kesha employs a 'healer', who might then talk in either Latin or something else (perhaps genuinely, perhaps just tying random words together). It's also possible Kesha's making that up just for something to say in the interview.

[Goblinmonger]

61. Are you saying she's too dumb to know Latin?

You do know that her performer persona is much different than who she really is. Everything I have read about her indicates she is crazy smart. But go ahead and dismiss her.

[okasha]

64. Not too dumb.

Unlikely to be interested in the subject.

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

52. I have no knowledge of this Ke$ha person

So I will not reply as to her and her situation.


That said, I found the idea of a Vaginal Exorcism amusing for no other reason than the mental picture of a tiny demon residing in a living cave, just waiting for someone to come ring the doorbell.

How do we know that such demons are a bad thing? Perhaps they are good for the people involved.

For this reason, I propose that we perform a 'Reverse Vaginal Exorcism' so as to test whether or not having a vaginal demon is good or bad.

Are there any volunteers to participate in this experiment? I have no vagina, so I can not volunteer, but I have read up on demons, so I may be able to pull off the 'Reverse Vaginal Exorcism' part. If it does prove to be a problem, my father is a Catholic Deacon, and as such is authorized to perform 'Normal/Forward' Exorcisms, so in theory, he can get rid of the little demon.





So, any volunteers?







(I hope that those that have read this, take it in the humor it was intended to be. However, if someone wishes to attempt/discuss the Reverse Exorcism, please feel free to let me know. Hell, there might be a business opportunity in Reverse Exorcisms!)

[cbayer]

57. Before volunteering, I would need a few more details.

Where would the demon come from? Can I pick my demon donor?

Is it possible to freeze a number of demons, so that I might have access to others if the first one doesn't take?

Where will this procedure be done? Can we do it in front of a paying audience (I could use the cash)?

What are the potential risks? Benefits?

Is there any chance that I will become a cannibal, as apparently has happened to Ke$ha? I really don't want to become a cannibal (or a zombie for that matter).

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

59. I try to forage for the demons myself

I don't trust the factory farms. You ask them for a box full of three armed demons and you'd be lucky to get two out of a dozen with full three arms and not little nubs on which they drew a little set of fingers.

So if there is someplace specific you want the demons from, we can try to accommodate.

Demons don't freeze well, they tend to pop open while in the freezer (Think exploding coke can, but they're demons, so there is blood and miniature innards), and then you have to clean up the mess while the ones that haven't frozen yet squeal in fear of popping like their friends. I have daily migraines already, I sure don't need to listen to those little buggers crying like that.

I do have some Runic seals that we can use to put them in suspended animation. It is obviously not as easy as putting the little box in the freezer, but the results are much better (see above paragraph).

I've never done it in front of an audience before, but I'm sure we can look into it. We will have to ask the local chamber of commerce or other local govt entity to see if we would need a license or permit. I'll ask my dad, he used to be a lawyer. I'm sure his family law experience can translate to little demons. Kids are just like demons, aren't they?

As to the risks and benefits, I have no real idea. The thought just popped into my mind as I read through the thread. We don't need to worry too much about possibly becoming a cannibal. I actually have experience with Thorns and Wendigos, so I know what to stay away from for this. I have some ready made runic seals I developed a few years ago to handle some stuff like that, so we ought not need to worry.

As to becoming a zombie...I don't expect any deaths to occur, so that should prevent any zombification.


Anything else?

[cbayer]

60. Thank you for your comprehensive response.

I feel reassured by you voice of authority and use of words that I have never heard of before.

Will contact you privately to schedule.

(You are hilarious!)

[okasha]

65. Be sure to check whether you need a sales tax permit

in the relevant state(s).

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

66. That is only a concern if it turns out we can sell tickets

at least at first.

If it turns out that Reverse Vaginal Exorcisms are good for women (health, entertainment, personal enjoyment, contraceptive, etc.) then we'll have to figure out a sales format which would involve charging and paying the appropriate taxes.

I can see it now, it could be like a mix of sperm bank, fertility clinic, and occult shop. One section can have the demon storage unit, where we can offer several deals, say: weekly, monthly and yearly. If you don't use your demons, then we will sell them to other customers on your behalf. There can be an auditorium so that we can have the procedure done in front of an audience (assuming we find out selling tickets is permitted) or an area for a more private setting. Then there will be the section with all the various things one might need or want for taking care of their new demon. This part would be a mix of occult shop and pet store and perhaps a spa.

The possibilities are endless!

[Meshuga]

56. Sad thing is...

While Ke$ha talks about her haunted vagina to get attention (and to stay relevant in the sadly moronic showbiz world) by shocking people who love getting offended or by distracting the general public with useless bullshit, there is a real problem with real people hurting and killing others (including children) based on a belief in supernatural demonic possession that is supported by religion.

Granted, religion does not condone stabbing a victim of demonic possession to free the person. However, it supports the belief in this stupidity (demonic possessions) which combined with mental illness can obviously bring some sad and devastating consequences.

[cbayer]

58. People in the throes of a psychotic episode grab on to whatever they can

to try and make sense out of what is happening.

Right now there are people with psychotic illnesses who are terrified of drones, the NSA, their neighbors, the teachers at their kids school, their own doctors, etc.

The overall chance that they will become violent as a result of their delusions is quite small and statistically they are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators.

Getting rid of religious ideas will not get rid of psychotic delusions and religion is not responsible in the case you mention.

We are all responsible and live within a system that continues to marginalize psychiatric patients and turn a blind eye to the lack of care and services available to them.

If anything, religious organizations may be the only facilities available for the neediest and most ill among us.

[Meshuga]

62. While I do agree that...

Lack of care and services are factors and that there are other triggers to psychotic delusions other than religion, it is still extremely hard to remove the role of religious belief from the case mentioned. So I will have to disagree with you.

You don't have to be mentally ill to suffer from fear imposed by certain religious beliefs. You don't have to be mentally ill to fear supernatural demonic possession. You don't have to be mentally ill to fear impending death in an coming Armageddon because you have the wrong thoughts. Now imagine what fear imposed by religious beliefs would do to a mentally ill person.

Beliefs that may seem harmless to some have consequences to others. And the lack of services and support are not the only factors.

I am not advocating the banishment of certain beliefs but I have to recognize that beliefs sometimes bring very negative consequences.

Even beliefs that seem trivial can bring bad consequences and they are not recognized since we usually look for other reasons to excuse these trivial beliefs.

My wife who was raised catholic says that the nuns at her school for year told her that she had to leave space for her guardian angel when sitting in the classroom. Since that time she's had back issues. Granted, her back problems could have a different cause. Perhaps not. But silly beliefs and absurdities can cause a lot of grief whether we wish to recognize them or not.

[cbayer]

63. There are many people who develop religious ideation and delusions during

a psychotic episode who were profoundly non-religious prior to their episode. There are also many who return to their non-religious state once the episode has resolved.

While there is no doubt that religion lends itself to being used during psychotic episodes, it does not cause them and is not responsible for them.

I agree that you don't have to be psychiatrically ill to develop fears and anxiety due to certain religious beliefs, but that is a separate topic. You don't have to be psychiatrically ill to have fears about flying in airplanes either and a random accident can cause a marked increase in these fears.

At any rate, elimination of all religious belief would have virtually no impact on the rates or severity of major psychiatric disorders. The rates are the same in places with high levels of religiosity and very low levels.

Beliefs that cause harm in individuals or that lead individuals to inflict harm on others are objectionable and should be addressed. Beliefs can also provide a great deal of solace and refuge for people who are suffering. It's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Sorry about your wife's back. Many people have been scarred by adults who have used scare tactics on children. And many adults have used scare tactics, even if their intentions were good. I have a lingering fear of milk because I was told it had fall out from Nagasaki in it.

[Meshuga]

67. Not saying that we should throw the baby out with the bath water

Just pointing out that there are acceptable religious beliefs that cause harm even when other root causes are possible.

While I agree that religious beliefs can be a source for good things not sure if anyone can deny that it can bring negative consequence and be used for malevolent means.

Denying that a certain religious belief can possibly be one of the root causes in the Montgomery County case just demonstrates denial more than anything. At least as I see it.

It is also interesting to note that my wife's personal anectedote can be easily dismissed as "grown ups saying the darnest things" because, if the situation was reversed, and the outcome was something positive instead, I am willing to bet that religious values and teachings would be immediately recognized and given credit.